5th Generation RX Discussion: Official Thread (RX 500h, 450h+, 350h and More)

[ssun30]

IMO, one thing immediately off the top of my head. But first, where does this really compete with size wise? It's in between an X3 and X5. Second, what are they going to try to price this at?

The RX has been so successful in the past 25 years exactly because it doesn't compete with anything size wise. It's BBA's problem that they can't build a cost-effective mid-size crossover not a Lexus problem.

 

[NXracer]

The RX is the one model that Lexus could really stretch the pricing on the higher end, and a select group of previous F sport buying customers might actually bite. A couple of bad Lexus dealers I know already have rolling PHEV lists where there ADMs are ugly.

The lexus performance customer is not the same person as a Lexus Performance enthusiasts; the latter is better served at say AuBmMbTSla.

 

[ericjtsang]

The RX has been so successful in the past 25 years exactly because it doesn't compete with anything size wise. It's BBA's problem that they can't build a cost-effective mid-size crossover not a Lexus problem.

BBA? Like the RX/NX, the X3/X5 do pretty well sales wise, as do the GLC/GLE and Q5/Q7. I have no doubt lexus will sell every 500h they can make. It is just my opinion to the question of where lexus isn't up to par, and that's quickness. Is 0-60 everything, no, not at all, it's one of many metrics, one that lexus chooses not to compete with. But, the 500h 0-60 is factually behind the competition. no more no less.

It will continue to be the best selling crossover for a while, especially with variants for every type of lexus customer

 

[ericjtsang]

The RX is the one model that Lexus could really stretch the pricing on the higher end, and a select group of previous F sport buying customers might actually bite. A couple of bad Lexus dealers I know already have rolling PHEV lists where there ADMs are ugly.

The lexus performance customer is not the same person as a Lexus Performance enthusiasts; the latter is better served at say AuBmMbTSla.

im glad lexus is learning to stretch, the europeans do it. if you've ever priced any of their crossovers you can go from $40-80 or $60-120. the RX def has a market at the upper end and performance end

 

[spwolf]

BBA? Like the RX/NX, the X3/X5 do pretty well sales wise, as do the GLC/GLE and Q5/Q7. I have no doubt lexus will sell every 500h they can make. It is just my opinion to the question of where lexus isn't up to par, and that's quickness. Is 0-60 everything, no, not at all, it's one of many metrics, one that lexus chooses not to compete with. But, the 500h 0-60 is factually behind the competition. no more no less.

It will continue to be the best selling crossover for a while, especially with variants for every type of lexus customer

it will always be behind the competition when it comes to 0-60 and pure sportiness, but now you are much closer than before.
They are trying to attract new userbase without alienating old ones.

 

[JustADude]

Also to be fair, the RX was never about sportiness, it was always about comfort, quietness, smoothness. Lexus is trying something new with the 500h to try to attract costumers who would like something a bit sporty but still has that comfort in it.

 

[Jonas]

For me it is not enough - why should I not go for a e-hybrid Porsche or something other, when my lease on current RX f-sport is up? Surely, when the tax incentives in europe is negative for Lexus and plus for chargeable hybrids (with better performance 0-100 km/h) or go the full petroleum And pay for it? The only thing that holds me back is Lexus realibility and comfort, but I am close to the edge, a little more performance would have sealed it for Lexus… To conservative, to passive… The other alternative is to go full electric, no option for me though...

 

[JustADude]

For me it is not enough - why should I not go for a e-hybrid Porsche or something other, when my lease on current RX f-sport is up? Surely, when the tax incentives in europe is negative for Lexus and plus for chargeable hybrids (with better performance 0-100 km/h) or go the full petroleum And pay for it? The only thing that holds me back is Lexus realibility and comfort, but I am close to the edge, a little more performance would have sealed it for Lexus… To conservative, to passive… The other alternative is to go full electric, no option for me though...

They are 2 different prices, intents of purpose, just a whole different vehicle. No point of comparing the 2

 

[ssun30]

From my rough estimate, the RX500h would have an achievement ratio of just 0.47. That's actually the worst of all RX models ever built, and worse than most poorly optimized 2WD Lexus ICEV models sold today. The lowest was the AL20 RX350 with 0.477. By comparison the RX350h is ~0.54, RX450h+ is ~0.57 and RZ450e is ~0.63.

I highly doubt the 500h would really need 6.1s to do 0-100km/h. Actually I would be surprised if real world test figures are any slower than the RZ450e. My estimate is 5.1-5.3s.

If the RX BEV turns out to be real, wouldn't it be really awkward that a "RX450e" turns out to be faster than the RX500h FSP?

Maybe from their market research, the typical RX buyer is really afraid of the idea of getting to highway speed in 5 seconds.

 

[ericjtsang]

Lexus has some advantages over the X3, but performance and cargo space are not comparable, esp for the price. The Lexus should outlast the BMW though.

BMW X3 xDrive30i (4cyl AWD) $47k, 0-60 @6 seconds, 28.7-62.7 Cargo, 21/28 MPG

Comparable RX500h ~$65K, 0-60 @5.9 seconds. 2022 cargo is 18.4-56.3 (the length of the car is the same for 2023 this shouldn't change much), MPG is TBD but Lexus said it should be the same as the 2022: 19/26 for AWD 350, I'm curious where the 500h would land as this is the performance model. Even the Tundra's hybrid engine isn't significantly more fuel efficient.

Numbers wise, this doesn't quite add up for a $65k performance vehicle. 5.9 seconds really is average at best, especially for what they plan to charge. A hybrid F-150 can do it in 5.3 seconds. But, numbers aren't everything, the RX has infinitely more style than a plain jane X3, not to mention the reliability. At least the IS500 has a V8 to compensate for the less competitive metrics.

As a buyer, i think the sweet spot is the RX450h or the 350h.

 

[Smychavo]

Hmm, let's keep in mind FSP isn't particularly the same level of F. It'll have a more powerful powertrain, and marginally better suspension characteristics for more enthused driving, but it's not designed to be a full on competitor of sorts. M-Sport, than M, 43 AMG, etc. Least that's the idea. Whether that will reflect well for Lexus will lie with the sales numbers. I'm personally quite curious for this model. It's debuting a new AWD system, and to my knowledge a higher output drivetrain than its derivatives. If this is the start of more hybrid performance vehicles for them then this is a great start for getting their feet in the water to see how many people legitimately want something like this for its price point. It's as much a marketing exercise for electrified F-Sport stepping up as a legitimate alternative as it is an engineering exercise for them.

 

[mikeavelli]

IMO, one thing immediately off the top of my head. But first, where does this really compete with size wise? It's in between an X3 and X5. Second, what are they going to try to price this at?

Car and Driver thinks it could approach $70, so maybe it will start at $65?

An X3 M40i starts at $60k and 0-60 in 4.4 seconds. The X3 and RX have the same wheelbase, with the RX being quite a bit longer overall.

An X5 xDrive40i starts at $64k and 0-60 in 5.3. The X5 is larger in every dimension.

Where does this leave the RX500h at a potential 65k and 0-60 at 5.9 seconds (Lexus better be underrating this...). As a performance model, it's much slower than a comparable performance model X3 and still slower than a base model X5.

While the RX created the segment the Germans didn’t battle it head on.X3 was smaller and X5 was larger. Now all the lines are blurred and all 3 are successful now with the NX battling the X3.

This is 100% a vehicle positioned against the X5. I had a new hybrid X5 rental for a week and was shocked by how good the MPG was and how much I hated it. I did love the split rear gate. Not roomy, terrible seats, confusing i drive which I normally understand and wasn’t as sporty as a BMW should be. I scratched my head but obviously the X5 sells like crazy.

 

[sl0519]

Lexus has some advantages over the X3, but performance and cargo space are not comparable, esp for the price. The Lexus should outlast the BMW though.

BMW X3 xDrive30i (4cyl AWD) $47k, 0-60 @6 seconds, 28.7-62.7 Cargo, 21/28 MPG

Comparable RX500h ~$65K, 0-60 @5.9 seconds. 2022 cargo is 18.4-56.3 (the length of the car is the same for 2023 this shouldn't change much), MPG is TBD but Lexus said it should be the same as the 2022: 19/26 for AWD 350, I'm curious where the 500h would land as this is the performance model. Even the Tundra's hybrid engine isn't significantly more fuel efficient.

Numbers wise, this doesn't quite add up for a $65k performance vehicle. 5.9 seconds really is average at best, especially for what they plan to charge. A hybrid F-150 can do it in 5.3 seconds. But, numbers aren't everything, the RX has infinitely more style than a plain jane X3, not to mention the reliability. At least the IS500 has a V8 to compensate for the less competitive metrics.

As a buyer, i think the sweet spot is the RX450h or the 350h.

5.9s is sufficient for RX buyers seeking for more power. The problem is "FSP" marketing and their messaging, stressing how they wanted to transform Lexus into a more performance-dedicated brand, yet acceleration to power ratio falls short of "FSP" standard, judging by preliminary estimates. Anyhow, embargo is only few days away and we will soon find out the real-world results.

 

[mediumhot]

From my rough estimate, the RX500h would have an achievement ratio of just 0.47. That's actually the worst of all RX models ever built, and worse than most poorly optimized 2WD Lexus ICEV models sold today. The lowest was the AL20 RX350 with 0.477. By comparison the RX350h is ~0.54, RX450h+ is ~0.57 and RZ450e is ~0.63.

I highly doubt the 500h would really need 6.1s to do 0-100km/h. Actually I would be surprised if real world test figures are any slower than the RZ450e. My estimate is 5.1-5.3s.

If the RX BEV turns out to be real, wouldn't it be really awkward that a "RX450e" turns out to be faster than the RX500h FSP?

Maybe from their market research, the typical RX buyer is really afraid of the idea of getting to highway speed in 5 seconds.

6 seconds sounds about right since it's not a PHEV with big battery. 450e is quoted at 6.5 seconds and most likely it will not turn out to be faster than 500h. It could be faster and it should be faster with different mapping but it's all about positioning.

 

[mikeavelli]

I do agree there will be a disconnect when people think “500”. Maybe keep it as 450h, then it would be seen as a substantial leap. Acura has huge issue with type s and actual performance. They should be base models. F SPORT PERFORMANCE works with the IS 500 but this is down 100hp…

Curious to see what the Youtubers say lol

 

[mikeavelli]

wild lol

 

[CRSKTN]

wild lol

Absolutely shameless. Disgusting.

 

[Smychavo]

Wait. That's not even the RX's interior in those shots that's NX's lol

 

[Kelvin2020]

He did 0-60 in 5.7 secs!

 

[mikeavelli]

I am now free to chat about the 2023 RX.. it is a LEAP in the way it drives. Absolutely stunning.