So interesting to me that the new LS has yet to be seen testing alongside an S Class.
I could be wrong, but it tells me that Lexus is not so much trying to beat Mercedes with their own formula (as they have tried before, with previous generations of LS), but rather, create the best S Class rival with their own DNA. A8 and 7 Series are much more athletic and much better driving cars than the S Class. If Lexus can benchmark them for driving dynamics and deliver a next generation executive interior, that would be a killer combo, IMO. LS has always had a much nicer, more luxurious interior compared to the Bimmer and Audi, IMO.
Back in January/February 2014, a BMW insider (due to BMW-Toyota collaboration) reported that there were many W222 S-Classes in LHD and RHD JP-spec, parked at the R&D facilities at Toyota Technical Centre Aichi.
About 6 months after that, the final design for the 5LS was likely set and development took a different trajectory from there on out. That fall, they had shown the car (physically) to Lexus personnel in the UK. Toyota has by now exhausted benchmarking the S-Class and likely bought their first set of S-Classes at the end of 2013 or in January 2014, when the first JP-spec W222s were imported to Japan.
Unlike their developmental woes back in 2001-05, where they were blindsided by a heavily improved competitor in the W221 and had to rely on the outgoing inferior W220 as a benchmark, they wisely decided to attack MB mid-cycle and give them 2 years to know about new BMW's 7er, as well as the new Panamera.
So, I would say that a couple of carefully orchestrated spy shots of the LS testing alongside import-spec lesser German competitors in the U.S., far away from Japan HQ, is not really indicative of them not benchmarking the S-Class. My question is, why have they gone of their way to not be seen benchmarking the S-Class? There is plenty of road testing being done, somehow missing the eye of the many lenses out there.
Japanese companies often take advantage of nocturnal public testing, which if these "spy photographers" got up and looked around at night, they'd likely catch many more of them prototype testing. A past report I came across, once highlighted this reality, where a Japanese test engineer explained their reasoning for testing solely at night, except in regards to hot weather testing.
On another note, for them to be making such claims of desiring "sportiness", why have I not seen any Lexus models testing on the Nürburgring since the LC500 last year nor any LS spy shots in Europe to date, especially on Deutschland's Autobahn? They need to ensure that the car is able to be as composed as an S-Class is on unrestricted sections of the Autobahn.
I have never been inside a late model LS on the Autobahn, but I have heard that it did not did compare favourably to 7er and S-Class at extremely high speed. Point is, regarding the Ring at least, there is no escaping being caught testing there and one needs to see something soon from Lexus.
They've caught the LFA, 4GS, 3IS, RC-F, and LC500 testing there, why hasn't seen LS spy shots there then? Isn't it supposed to be the best that this company offers? The car that can do it all? That is what the S-Class is supposed to be, so that is what the LS should be and even more for your money.
Holy crap, 13 pages in 1 thread! That's got to be a record on this site!
If I really think about it, it is not surprising. On another site, the longest were for the current generation S-Class which required 3-4 threads and an entire reformatting of the forum to consolidate the total posts in 1-2 threads.
Auto journalists may think everyone wants to drive compact sports cars, wagons, or crossovers, but people are very curious about this class of vehicle or the accompanying 2-door variants (in the case of the LC). The flagships very much tell the future in terms of many things.
so is it 2GR-FKS or 2GR-FSE or another new engine ???
it's suppose that batch of new engines will appear with the new chassis or i am wrong ???
Something odd is happening with Toyota trademarks. I know what was the case with the RC300 AWD and IS300 AWD, but the latest RX300, GS300, NX300, LS350, and GX400 trademarks raise concerns for me. Is there a possible incoming change in nomenclature?
For one, it is very possible and the most educated guesstimate is that the 2GR-FKS will be implanted into the LS350 in Japan. Between the camouflaged mule spotted in Colorado and the late 2014 5LS prototype equipped with a 3.0 TTV6 (that wore a finished body), I am not sure what to think.
There have been a few rumours from Japan of that same 3.0 litre V6 turbo, so what is going on? Are they taking a new approach to nomenclature, that echoes that of the hybrid nomenclature, but dropping the "t" at the end?
The smaller engine option is good news indeed. Wish it were an LS300t trademark instead though. Considering the underwhelming power to weight ratio in the RC350, what are your opinions on this aspect of an LS350?
I for one cannot understand the lack of LS300t trademark, let alone any 300t trademarks from Toyota. For a 3.0 litre TTV6 being in discussion for years, something has terribly gone wrong with development, probably in the realm of reliability testing.
My first reaction for an LS 350 is not positive as the 10 year old 2GR-FSE comes to mind. Ok for an IS, less so for a GS, not so for an LS.
The 2GR-FSE was unveiled nearly 12 years ago, so it's more than a decade old already. The MZ V6 introduced in August/September 1993. It was truly replaced in 2003-05 with the 2GR, 3GR, & 4GR, only with some other models keeping the 2GR until 2006-07, based on impending redesign cycles or briefly retained as a less risk solution with the venture into V6 hybrids via the Highlander/Kluger Hybrid and RX400h. Mitsuoka was last to retire the MZ, but it doesn't count in case anyone uses that as an argument for the GR not being old.
They need to introduce a replacement next year for sure, as that is 12-13 years already.
Didn't say, or imply, a loaded LS500 would be $90. That is a the right base price. Buyers in this market will pay $110-120 for a loaded flagship, and the new Lexus LS should be no different.
Regarding these mysterious trolls attacking the LC, you must think them worthy of discussion, or else you shouldn't bring them up. The inteiror of the LC alone is worth of its price tag, and it looks to have ana agility and sportiness that is a cut above the class norm, if not at Porsche 911 levels.
BD
You never implied that, but made a good point in regards to market offerings in the form of V8 and hybrid-only lineup. I do not see why they should offer a V6 stateside, but the argument for one is also a good one as well.
You can tell yourself those individuals are trolls, but that might be a bit subjective. They really are not trolls, if one studies the source of the commentary, which is what baffles me. They are longtime CL users that can one make the argument are being unnecessarily difficult and picky, claiming that the LC cannot truly even compete with C217 S Coupe.
So yes, their comments might be worthy of concern in being Lexus owners, especially those that are current generation LS owners and possibly one of them (IIRC), an LFA owner. On a side note, I do not consider myself specifically a Lexus enthusiast, but someone that as an all encompassing automotive enthusiast (that also works in this industry) that greatly respects the brand and looks forward to its future.
I am very impartial and unbiased, so I do not like playing favourites, even with companies that I am professionally involved with. I go out of my way to avoid comparing or referencing such brands with Toyota/Lexus.
Back on topic, CIF already expressed genuine concern regarding the interior of the LC being devoid of certain ultra-luxury accoutrements, seen in the S Coupe and other high-end competitors. The worse part of that on the performance end, is BMW will be redesigning the 6-Series in 2018 and S coupe will be updated late next year, all with new engines. The LC has been delayed until May, so it narrows the lead the LC may have over primary competition. One hopes by early next year, these concerns about the LC500 can be put temporarily put to rest and a new V8 engine arrives by MY2020.
The LS500 has a chance to stand tall in North America next to the S550 facelift in the largest market, if it is massively innovative and stylish. BMW has already delivered and left some unimpressed as seen by sales, even if my mother happily buys every generation of 7er. Audi has never been a serious contender outside of Europe and China, so the next A8 isn't much of a concern. Other competitors are not yet ready time wise (Jaguar, Infiniti) or not quite competitive (Genesis, Cadillac, Acura) in this class.
