5th Generation (2018+) Lexus LS 500 & LS 500h Megathread

[blackjack214]

Sorta off topic but wanted to add that Subaru’s new EV that just released shares same exact infotainment system as Lexus (with the twisty temp. control knobs). There is absolutely nothing original that comes with their current lineup of products.

 

[maiaramdan]

Sorta off topic but wanted to add that Subaru’s new EV that just released shares same exact infotainment system as Lexus (with the twisty temp. control knobs). There is absolutely nothing original that comes with their current lineup of products.

Side note
Subaru to Toyota as Skoda to VW
As Mazda to Toyota will be Seat/Cupra to VW
Japanese Government keep pushing into 2 major manufacturer solution, so at the end of the day will be Only Toyota and Honda, nothing more

Nissan and Mitsubishi have until the end of this year to choose closure or to be under any of the two, Toyota refused to add more than Mazda, Subaru, Suzuki and Isuzu

Infact, that's over stress on Honda and yet on Toyota and maybe why both corp are holding a step backward, until every corp do the financial homework

 

[mediumhot]

The ES killed the MarkX, the Avalon, the GS

The painful truth is they didn't know how to position or sell GS so they gave up on it. ES has very little to do with it except that people picked it up as value proposition. I mean I could make up some case how ES has killed both IS and LS or how ES could kill Bentley Flying Spur if Lexus had one in their lineup. Lexus team just never seemed to capture 2GS audience ever again with 3GS and 4GS due to many reasons. Im speculating here but around late 90s early 00s infamous Toyota beancounters were at top of their reign and 3GS was not a priority in handing out R&D resources. 4GS even more so despite the fact that facelifted 4GS was a true contender but sales strategy and devotion have flopped big time.

 

[maiaramdan]

The painful truth is they didn't know how to position or sell GS so they gave up on it. ES has very little to do with it except that people picked it up as value proposition. I mean I could make up some case how ES has killed both IS and LS or how ES could kill Bentley Flying Spur if Lexus had one in their lineup. Lexus team just never seemed to capture 2GS audience ever again with 3GS and 4GS due to many reasons. Im speculating here but around late 90s early 00s infamous Toyota beancounters were at top of their reign and 3GS was not a priority in handing out R&D resources. 4GS even more so despite the fact that facelifted 4GS was a true contender but sales strategy and devotion have flopped big time.

Honestly, I always see it with opposite perspective

In late 00 Toyota was already chosing to kill the ES or let us say turn the Avalon into ES and give the GS a sport Panamera/ CLS style but with the brake disaster in 08 and then the recession they put the ES on Avalon platform and this on paper killed the LS , GS and IS

An IS price with GS category and LS interior space

 

[mikeavelli]

Exactly. Just ask:
- Cadillac
- Lincoln
- Acura
- Infiniti
- Jaguar
- Volvo
- Buick

... how their bounce back is going after taking their eye off the ball and expecting it wouldn't hurt.

I was seriously shooing the CT6 Blackwing for awhile. Interior wasn’t great but could be had with carbon fiber. The engine was sensational with 550hp and I liked the sharp boxy look.

Then Caddy cans it. They they designed a v-8 that wouldn’t fit un any other product. It died after what 3 years?

If they got that right next to the escalade cadillac is really in the game

 

[mikeavelli]

It’s crazy to think just 15 years ago
HS
IS
ES
LS

And they all were distinct. Crossovers really killed things. The ES has always had the broadest market and the traditional Lexus buyer.

The other issue is price and incentives. Dealers will simply push people into a larger ES since it’s cheaper. We all know this. It takes a special salesperson to really understand and showcase the benefits of an IS or GS.

The other issue is the ES for the first time looked better than the GS. That don’t help at all.

If BMW can sell that ugly 7 series I can’t see how Lexus can’t nail it with a 6LS

 

[ssun30]

The Black Wing V8 was too tightly packaged and thus had poor cooling, and it was too expensive to make.

GM management was really a mess. They could have consolidated Black Wing and Gemini V8 programs and share the cost, but ended up having two parallel developments that are both too expensive to apply to lower end products. But at least the outcome is better than what we see at TMC. There's 0 probability of seeing another V8 TMC product after LFR.

These are examples of how risky "modern V8" are to develop. You need a concrete plan for your product lineup before committing. GM didn't have a plan. Lexus had a plan but figured out an easier way to make money so they cancelled all of it.

On a side note I'm impressed by how even Cadillac dealers seem to know how to sell a V product. I've interacted with them twice and both had salespeople knowledgeable enough in the V-series (probably because they sell a lot of Escalade V), whereas Lexus salespeople consistently know nothing about any product out of NX/RX/TX/ES.

 

[mikeavelli]

The Black Wing V8 was too tightly packaged and thus had poor cooling, and it was too expensive to make.

GM management was really a mess. They could have consolidated Black Wing and Gemini V8 programs and share the cost, but ended up having two parallel developments that are both too expensive to apply to lower end products. But at least the outcome is better than what we see at TMC. There's 0 probability of seeing another V8 TMC product after LFR.

These are examples of how risky "modern V8" are to develop. You need a concrete plan for your product lineup before committing. GM didn't have a plan. Lexus had a plan but figured out an easier way to make money so they cancelled all of it.

On a side note I'm impressed by how even Cadillac dealers seem to know how to sell a V product. I've interacted with them twice and both had salespeople knowledgeable enough in the V-series (probably because they sell a lot of Escalade V), whereas Lexus salespeople consistently know nothing about any product out of NX/RX/TX/ES.

Inspected an CT-5 V blackwing and Escalade V blackwing and i’m sitting inside scratching my head that not only do they out power Lexus but the interiors are incredible. This never used to happen. Maybe the power but not interiors .

Reliabilty is not there but they sure are desirable.

 

[Gor134]

They they designed a v-8 that wouldn’t fit un any other product

Same thing that happened with Lexus GA-L/V8 is what happened with that Caddy.

That V8 was designed for the Omega platform which was supposed to spawn an SUV, coupe, CT5, and a true full size sedan above the CT6... Only the CT6 made it to fruition before all of those plans got canned and we instead got the CT5 on an updated Alpha platform

 

[Ali Manai]

The Es is successful for two reasons value for money and the correct size it's about 196 inches long. The LS is now alimo at 212 so sales will be less

 

[mediumhot]

Inspected an CT-5 V blackwing and Escalade V blackwing and i’m sitting inside scratching my head that not only do they out power Lexus but the interiors are incredible. This never used to happen. Maybe the power but not interiors .

Reliabilty is not there but they sure are desirable.

I would add that Caddy has surpassed Audi in the headlight design game. Very playful graphics and animation. It could be too much after some time, but the headlight design is absolutely super contemporary. Now compare that to Lexus RZ which boast to be the first ever Lexus to have matrix LED setup in a single lens, that might sound spectacular until you learn that Mazda CX-60 from three years ago also has that. And then there is a lighting emblem on RZ which looks like a cheap Chinese third party accessory compared to Cadillac segmented logo that's animated.

While we are on the topic of headlights there is very little discussion about the performance and setup of headlights. I am not familiar with Lyriq headlights I would assume they are matrix in Luxury trim, but Lexus RZ is one hell of an interesting story. In Japan and Europe RZ has matrix headlights for sure. It has option to mask out cars in front, incoming cars in another lane and even bikes and people. RZ Luxury has option to adjust it's headlights in rainy and foggy environments so it spreads out the beam to the side like fog lights. That makes me wonder if that option is just software locked from other trims or it's a whole new lighting setup inside the lens so this feature could work?

Of course, none of these matrix features are available in US spec RZ no matter what trim.

 

[mikeavelli]

I would add that Caddy has surpassed Audi in the headlight design game. Very playful graphics and animation. It could be too much after some time, but the headlight design is absolutely super contemporary. Now compare that to Lexus RZ which boast to be the first ever Lexus to have matrix LED setup in a single lens, that might sound spectacular until you learn that Mazda CX-60 from three years ago also has that. And then there is a lighting emblem on RZ which looks like a cheap Chinese third party accessory compared to Cadillac segmented logo that's animated.

While we are on the topic of headlights there is very little discussion about the performance and setup of headlights. I am not familiar with Lyriq headlights I would assume they are matrix in Luxury trim, but Lexus RZ is one hell of an interesting story. In Japan and Europe RZ has matrix headlights for sure. It has option to mask out cars in front, incoming cars in another lane and even bikes and people. RZ Luxury has option to adjust it's headlights in rainy and foggy environments so it spreads out the beam to the side like fog lights. That makes me wonder if that option is just software locked from other trims or it's a whole new lighting setup inside the lens so this feature could work?

Of course, none of these matrix features are available in US spec RZ no matter what trim.

Thanks didn’t know that. I absolutely love the CT-5 Blackwing facelift

 

[Tragic Bronson]

Inspected an CT-5 V blackwing and Escalade V blackwing and i’m sitting inside scratching my head that not only do they out power Lexus but the interiors are incredible. This never used to happen. Maybe the power but not interiors .

Reliabilty is not there but they sure are desirable.

Manual, V8, RWD...that's sadly become more rare these days. Desirable indeed

 

[ssun30]

The flagship sedan market really is winner-takes-all. People in this segment don't care about value. I built a S580 on their US website and a decently equipped one easily cost over $150k. The Maybach S480 costs ￥1.5M in China, the S580 ￥2.5M, the S680 ￥3.3M (close to￥7M after markups because of their rarity), and they sold over 12000 of those, just the Maybach models! That's more than Lexus sells the LS globally. BMW kind of "cheated" by combining 7 and i7 so they can claim better sales than S-Class in US. But globally this market is still very much owned by S-Class.

 

[mikeavelli]

The flagship sedan market really is winner-takes-all. People in this segment don't care about value. I built a S580 on their US website and a decently equipped one easily cost over $150k. The Maybach S480 costs ￥1.5M in China, the S580 ￥2.5M, the S680 ￥3.3M (close to￥7M after markups because of their rarity), and they sold over 12000 of those, just the Maybach models! That's more than Lexus sells the LS globally. BMW kind of "cheated" by combining 7 and i7 so they can claim better sales than S-Class in US. But globally this market is still very much owned by S-Class.

Benz knows the buyer. Stately styling, luxury, tech, large, imposing, spacious and always a V-8 option.

I had the conversation today and stated BMW figured out people in this class don’t give a **** about handling or weight so they built a heavy big ugly squared off sedan with more TVs than a best buy show room. They realized people want tech, space and to be imposing. Sales have skyrocketed.

Audi fails for being too damn bland. The LS was too sporty looking. Genesis kinda gets it but they lost their damn minds with pricing and no v-8.

I just would LOVE to see the designer behind the IS design a LS. A blend of sharp lines and curves. Make it bigger, taller, wider. Make it 5500 lbs with a plug in hybrid V-8 to pass any emissions issues. Win/Win

and if you go EV, it needs like 800-1000hp with 400 miles of range

 

[Tyronne M]

Benz knows the buyer. Stately styling, luxury, tech, large, imposing, spacious and always a V-8 option.

I had the conversation today and stated BMW figured out people in this class don’t give a **** about handling or weight so they built a heavy big ugly squared off sedan with more TVs than a best buy show room. They realized people want tech, space and to be imposing. Sales have skyrocketed.

Audi fails for being too damn bland. The LS was too sporty looking. Genesis kinda gets it but they lost their damn minds with pricing and no v-8.

I just would LOVE to see the designer behind the IS design a LS. A blend of sharp lines and curves. Make it bigger, taller, wider. Make it 5500 lbs with a plug in hybrid V-8 to pass any emissions issues. Win/Win

and if you go EV, it needs like 800-1000hp with 400 miles of range

Amen to this Mike!

 

[ssun30]

The Es is successful for two reasons value for money and the correct size it's about 196 inches long. The LS is now alimo at 212 so sales will be less

LS is a limo that can't be used as a limo because it has less rear legroom than ES.

 

[Gor134]

I just would LOVE to see the designer behind the IS design a LS.

Current IS's design language of those sharp lined with rounded curves and sharp window lines would go so hard on an LS.

 

[sl0519]

Current IS's design language of those sharp lined with rounded curves and sharp window lines would go so hard on an LS.

The pre-facelift LS actually looks pretty good from the front, but the rear half feels kinda bloated. The design around the rear quarter window is also weird, and the tail just looks bland. The 3.75 IS looks insanely good - such a waste of a great design on such an outdated platform.

 

[Gor134]

The design around the rear quarter window is also weird, and the tail just looks bland.

I absolutely agree with this.

Since debut that rear quarter window has looked so weird. When you look at the car from the front 3/4 view, that rear almost looks like a wagon because of that weird rear window pillar treatment