5th Generation (2018+) Lexus LS 500 & LS 500h Megathread

[Gecko]

I believe it’s time to admit this brand that once stood for “relentless pursuit of perfection” is settle for mediocrity.

"Experience Amazing" definitely coincided with the strategic shift to Toyota+... and in a way, it does align with what we've seen.

"Relentless pursuit of perfection" is strong, convicted wording that doesn't leave much to the imagination. Right there with Mercedes' "The best or nothing."

"Experience amazing" is contextual, nebulous, and could mean anything... probably subconsciously intended as, "experience amazing... if you move up from a Toyota product and don't know anything about the competition." Lucky for Lexus, there are plenty of those people.

 

[Levi]

They will realize the mistake they are making, but it will be too late.

Branding is one tough thing to build, costly to maintain, and so easy to break.

Once a brand starts its downward path, it is almost impossible to save. Plenty of examples in the car industry (Acura, Infiniti, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Jaguar, Lotus).

 

[Gecko]

Branding is one tough thing to build, costly to maintain, and so easy to break.

Once a brand starts its downward path, it is almost impossible to save. Plenty of examples in the car industry (Acura, Infiniti, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Jaguar, Lotus).

Well said. There are some other major brand mistakes I've heard about but I'm hoping they're wrong.

Other brands would kill to have the equity and awareness of "LS" and "RX" or even "IS"... I hope Lexus doesn't throw them all away and start over.

 

[ssun30]

As wealth inequality grows, luxury brands have an increasing tendency to go further upmarket. That's why we are seeing MB cancelling its lower-end products and investing almost all resources on its highest added-value lineup (S, GLS, Maybach, AMG) at the cost of a very watered down mainstream lineup.

That being said, we are on the brink of a global depression worse than 2008 and selling mostly appliance products isn't necessarily a bad thing...

 

[CIF]

I strongly believe one reason for the decline of Lexus has been the brand's obsession with "sport" and "sporty" products since the Akio Toyoda era began. Over the years this did not translate into successful consistent products. It only resulted in a handful of sporadic, inconsistent products. It alienated and pushed away many sporty buyers. More importantly, it alienated and pushed away many core Lexus buyers, those that bought Lexus because they were boring, refined and comfortable luxury cars. These were the core luxury buyers that were the foundation of the Lexus brand, that built and made viable the Lexus brand in the first place. Every single mainstream luxury brand for years has been obsessed with "sport" to varying degrees. Many of them have struggled in the market as well to varying degrees. The only mainstream luxury brand over these years that did not completely give up on core luxury buyers has been Mercedes. Yes there is Rolls Royce and Bentley, but they are in a different ultra luxury segment.

That said, I agree with what most here say and understand this is a Lexus forum where many of you focus mostly on Lexus, but there are much bigger problems at play here. The many problems that Toyota as a company currently faces are putting the company's future at risk. If Toyota as a company were to fall, there would be no Lexus period (not to mention no Crown or Century sub-brands). Whether you are a Lexus or Toyota fan or both, I urge you all to contact Toyota to fix their problems threatening the future of the company. Explaining all the problems the company is currently facing would take a massive amount of time that I sadly do not have time to write about. I wouldn't be able to explain it all for other reasons anyways. I especially urge any of you here with Toyota connections to use your connections to tell Toyota they need to focus on fixing all of their problems threatening the future of the company.

 

[ssun30]

I strongly believe one reason for the decline of Lexus has been the brand's obsession with "sport" and "sporty" products since the Akio Toyoda era began. Over the years this did not translate into successful consistent products. It only resulted in a handful of sporadic, inconsistent products. It alienated and pushed away many sporty buyers.

The problem is not the brand's obsession with sportiness, but obsession with sportiness without anything to back that up. They are too stingy to spend the actual budget and effort to build competitive powertrains and chassis. They also had very limited success in motorsport.

Lexus today has the oldest buyer demographics in luxury brands so wanting to be sporty is not a personal interest of Akio (he does not care about F, he only cares about GR) but a necessity to continue existing.

You've seen me and others joke about Lexus as "Toyota+" and I hope it's clear now that is obviously the go-forward strategy, whether it's platform engineering Toyota parts and platforms for Lexus vehicles or using Lexus dealers as a premium retail channel for the Century and GR GT3. Toyota no longer sees value or necessity in dedicated Lexus products. With the rise of Crown and Century on a global scale, Toyota has decided that their three core brands - Toyota, Crown, Century - are the priority players and Lexus has been relegated to an electric experimental sub-brand.

And the problem is the Crown/Century sub-brand strategy has been a flop so far (at least globally). The Crown is a mixed bag between some models successful in limited markets (Sport in Japan, Estate in US) and outright embarrassment (Cross and Sedan). The Century SUV is only produced at 30 units/month so globally there are fewer than 360 sold each year. The Century V12 sold 100 units/month during the worst economic periods in Japan (the first Lost Decade and Great Recession). Usually when a product changes from a sedan to SUV we see at least 2x increase in sales but in the case of Century it went backwards. I suspect even the LX VIP is a more successful product since it's a mass produced catalogue model.

We will never know if the "all electric Lexus" strategy was intentional sabotage or a miscalculation pressured by investors but more likely it's a mix of both.

 

[ssun30]

These are what we are losing in the future. The 5th gen interior really is a work of art. At half the price of a Maybach S or Century.

 

[CRSKTN]

It alienated and pushed away many sporty buyers. More importantly, it alienated and pushed away many core Lexus buyers, those that bought Lexus because they were boring, refined and comfortable luxury cars.

Lexus sales skyrocketed. Nobody was buying their cars for that. The market literally died off.

Whether you are a Lexus or Toyota fan or both, I urge you all to contact Toyota to fix their problems threatening the future of the company. Explaining all the problems the company is currently facing would take a massive amount of time that I sadly do not have time to write about.

Toyota is one of the most profitable, capable car makers in the world.

The problem is they've never cared for this brand.

 

[mikeavelli]

If this really is true, Acura, Infiniti and Lexus not in this class is a magnificent blow. You are telling me Genesis will compete but not us? A8, 7, S class, panamera lwb all there.

The LS needed love not to be abandoned.Hoping I am wrong.

 

[Gor134]

I feel Lexus is riding it the 5LS out for a full EV 6LS replacement, similarly to what Audis doing right now.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I feel Lexus is riding it the 5LS out for a full EV 6LS replacement, similarly to what Audis doing right now.

Honestly without Lexus being transparent and their insistence on being cagey with enthusiast-oriented models, this sorta talk is just copium and that's just the reality.

It's clear all the fun is at Toyota, and while I'm upset that Lexus is being thrown to the wolves like this, we still have some really cool Toyotas. At least there's BMW...

 

[Gor134]

Good news:

https://www.motor1.com/news/756914/lexus-ls-not-dying/

We reached out to the company for clarification, and representatives from both the European and U.S. branches assured us that the LS is not going anywhere.

Patrick Scheelen, Senior Manager of Lexus Product Communications for Europe, confirmed: “There is no intention for LS discontinuation globally.” Leigh Anne Sessions, Senior Manager of Lexus Communications North America, declared: “In Japan, the word flagship means that it is a core model for the brand, and the ES fits this description, as it was launched at the same time as the LS and is one of our best-selling models globally. We do not have any LS news to share at this time.”

 

[sl0519]

Good news:

https://www.motor1.com/news/756914/lexus-ls-not-dying/

"There is no intention for LS discontinuation globally."
He only said that the current model won't be discontinued for now, but made no comment about whether there will be a new LS in the future. I wouldn’t get too excited just yet - if they don’t continue developing new engines and platforms, the most they can do is minor updates like they did with the current IS. In the end, it’ll still face the fate of being axed. We've seen this play out many times before.

 

[CRSKTN]

It is "important" to them, but not the way we think.
The whole brand is a 30 year bait and switch.

 

[Gecko]

They will realize the mistake they are making, but it will be too late.

Exactly. Just ask:
- Cadillac
- Lincoln
- Acura
- Infiniti
- Jaguar
- Volvo
- Buick

... how their bounce back is going after taking their eye off the ball and expecting it wouldn't hurt.

 

[Falcon]

I saw a new LS outside the mall today. God does it look so nice.

 

[Sulu]

Exactly. Just ask:
- Cadillac
- Lincoln
- Acura
- Infiniti
- Jaguar
- Volvo
- Buick

... how their bounce back is going after taking their eye off the ball and expecting it wouldn't hurt.

I too thought that Cadillac was gone, by what I saw (or actually, did not see) here in Southern Ontario. Yet, I am now seeing a number of their new EV models, where I did not see any of their ICE-powered sedans or crossovers. I now have hope that Cadillac is not dead.

 

[Gor134]

Cadillac's EV pricing is solid.

Optiq for example is larger than Audi's Q6 yet is priced like and competes with the cheaper Q4 and is WAY nicer (at least to touch, idk about the ride)

 

[Sulu]

Cadillac's EV pricing is solid.

Optiq for example is larger than Audi's Q6 yet is priced like and competes with the cheaper Q4 and is WAY nicer (at least to touch, idk about the ride)

I will take your word for it. I have long lost interest in Cadillac, only curious to see -- or not see -- out on the roads here in one of the richest markets in Canada.

It was sad to me to see Cadillac die out after seeming to try so hard, and after seeing Cadillacs in so many driveways when I was growing up. In the 1970s and early 1980s, Cadillacs were the aspirational vehicle for family doctors, store-front lawyers and small businessmen. So it is nice to see Cadillac be successful again.

 

[maiaramdan]

I was away long time ago, and when I entered I read every comment I missed in this forum and especially regarding LC and LS

Long story short and in simple points

1) Auto market is foggy in which power train is more future proof

2) Merc and BMW and even Audi started to pay more attention into the bigger model than the smaller because of let's be honest Chinese, you can buy a whole real leather interior high performance BYD seal with not more than 45K , it's Lexus IS size by the way and can move on experiment up to 600 km with ease

3) Crown and Century sub brands is a must, in order to have the FR Crown and Century sedan both sub-brands, shall make money for the main FR sedan with the FR Crown is here and next FR Century in work so everything is working fine

4) Recession is coming either we loving it or not, so the best thing to do as a manufacturer is doing your best with the minimum amount, saving cash for later and/or RnD

From all what I found
Chinese, Recession, upscaling family cars, I found that Lexus already in a good shape

The other scenario for those loving FR sedans is to see Lexus Century instead of LS and Lexus Crown instead of GS as both then will be FR

But the problem will always be the ES

The ES killed the MarkX, the Avalon, the GS

So on paper if the people wants Lexus to do FR sedans , they needs to see the numbers , but unfortunately all the numbers are towards the ES

Last scenario is that Toyota preparing itself first then they will do it to Lexus

Honestly Toyota will have at least 6 sporty cars with 4 as FR and all will be made in house , so I don't think they'll leave Lexus

They're in hibernation mode
Having much cash without burning much until the fog started to move

I believe the next generation Century SUV will be FR with the next Century Sedan

We all know now that electric cars are not that greeny and still have no solid future, which gave the ICE more time or even hybrids, which with the next generations will get even more economical and more greeny

The bottom line
If you want to see Lexus FR future

Wait and see what Toyota will do with it's FF Yaris & Corolla