4th Generation 2024 Toyota Tacoma Thread (iForce Max Pricing Announced)

[JustADude]

I'd the possibility of the A25A hybrid. We'll find out in 2 days hopefully

 

[NomadDan]

I'd the possibility of the A25A hybrid. We'll find out in 2 days hopefully

Agreed. I think we’ll see A25 hybrid, T24, T24 hybrid. I think breakdown will be as follows:

SR5: A25 hybrid and T24
Sport and TRD Offroad: A25 hybrid, T24, and T24 hybrid
Limited: T24 and T24 hybrid
Pro: T24 hybrid

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Agreed. I think we’ll see A25 hybrid, T24, T24 hybrid. I think breakdown will be as follows:

SR5: A25 hybrid and T24
Sport and TRD Offroad: A25 hybrid, T24, and T24 hybrid
Limited: T24 and T24 hybrid
Pro: T24 hybrid

I'm noticing a couple of people online feverishly wanting the NA 2.5 hybrid powertrain in Toyota's and Lexus' bigger products. The fact that these guys are fine with the A25A-FKS being an option in the Tacoma now helps me to understand why Toyota's standards are so low.

That powertrain would be hot garbage for a big, body-on-frame truck. I see Kirk Kreifels creaming himself over the A25A-FKS in the RX, Highlander and other larger Toyota/Lexus products (like the Grand Highlander) which is just disappointing. Sure, it is a genuine knockout in terms of MPGs, but in heavier products it's going to suffer performance-wise.

While refined, the A25A-FKS makes the most god-awful noise with Toyota's HSD and feels like it's desperate for more power. I'm starting to get more annoyed at the complacent buyer base online, and I'm wish that people start pushing Toyota and Lexus to build powerful, yet efficient powertrains that don't have to suck your soul the way the A25A-FKS power unit does.

Rant over.

EDIT: Should have written A25A-FXS, not A25A-FKS, whoops!

 

[NomadDan]

Yeah, I definitely wouldn’t want a 2.5 hybrid, but there are a surprising amount of people who have been clamoring for one. I could see it being a popular choice for fleet vehicles too. After seeing Toyota make the 2.5 hybrid the sole powertrain in the Sienna, nothing surprises me anymore.

I’d love to see Toyota build a GR Tacoma with a V35 and long travel front end, but most here seem to shoot down that idea. So, there would appear to be quite a bit of complacency with the T24 hybrid drivetrain as well. Personally, I don’t want all that complexity in a 4Runner/Tacoma. My preference would be an updated 1GR with a manual, or maybe a T24 even though its performance is marginally better than the 1GR (which is disappointing given the 1GR has been out for 20+ years).

 

[Sulu]

I'm noticing a couple of people online feverishly wanting the NA 2.5 hybrid powertrain in Toyota's and Lexus' bigger products. The fact that these guys are fine with the A25A-FKS being an option in the Tacoma now helps me to understand why Toyota's standards are so god damn low.

That powertrain would be hot garbage for a big, body-on-frame truck. I see Kirk Kreifels creaming himself over the A25A-FKS in the RX, Highlander and other larger Toyota/Lexus products (like the Grand Highlander) which is just disappointing. Sure, it is a genuine knockout in terms of MPGs, but in heavier products it's going to suffer performance-wise.

While refined, the A25A-FKS makes the most god-awful noise with Toyota's HSD and feels like it's desperate for more power. I'm starting to get more annoyed at the complacent buyer base online, and I'm wish that people start pushing Toyota and Lexus to build powerful, yet efficient powertrains that don't have to suck your soul the way the A25A-FKS power unit does.

Rant over.

The non-hybrid A25A-FKS is much worse than the hybrid A25A-FXS. It is LOUD and it is ROUGH, and the 8-speed FWD transmission is very slow to downshift when you want the torque.

The serial-parallel hybrid A25A-FXS is smoother and not as loud -- the hybrid system really refines the engine, smoothing out the rough edges. My Camry Hybrid is much better -- smoother and with immediate torque -- than the equivalent non-hybrid Camry.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Yeah, I definitely wouldn’t want a 2.5 hybrid, but there are a surprising amount of people who have been clamoring for one. I could see it being a popular choice for fleet vehicles too. After seeing Toyota make the 2.5 hybrid the sole powertrain in the Sienna, nothing surprises me anymore.

I’d love to see Toyota build a GR Tacoma with a V35 and long travel front end, but most here seem to shoot down that idea. So, there would appear to be quite a bit of complacency with the T24 hybrid drivetrain as well. Personally, I don’t want all that complexity in a 4Runner/Tacoma. My preference would be an updated 1GR with a manual, or maybe a T24 even though its performance is marginally better than the 1GR (which is disappointing given the 1GR has been out for 20+ years).

Yup, Toyota is slacking on powertrain technologies. In the past decade the only powertrains that have generated genuine hype around the brand was the V35A-FTS/V35A-FTS + hybrid, and the G16E-GTS. For Lexus, I think most people here wouldn't have said a word if we've seen the V35A-FTS in the GS, IS, and their SUVs had their drivetrain configuration been different. In fact, I'd wager that the competitiveness of the product line would have made Lexus stay in the ICE market and not rush to EVs with their silly target year of 2035.

We were once able to depend on Toyota/Lexus on building powerful, yet efficient engines. However, they've been slacking nowadays. Not everyone wants a sad 4-cylinder in larger, premium, and enthusiast products. For example, I find the RX500h to be a total joke because you're paying almost 70k for a 4-cylinder and for that much money you can buy the world's best six-cylinder engine on the market, and will do better in terms of raw performance numbers, fuel economy, and I bet reliability too.

On God, I would never have been so head over heels with the GR Corolla or GR Yaris as much as I have if it wasn't for the 3-cylinder engine. I still would have loved it a ton because of how good they are subjectively and objectively, but the character and power of that 3-cylinder is what makes me dream about it at night.

 

[ssun30]

The A25A hybrid system works fine on a 1600-1800kg vehicle (Camry, ES, NX size) but above that weight the ICE would have to work very hard at high load. The A25A-FXS needs to spin at 4600rpm to achieve a rather poor 221N.m for 300h/239N.m for 350h. GAC replaced that really weak ICE with a 2.0T with same power output (140kW) but 33% more torque (320N.m) at 1/3 the rpm (1600rpm) and kept the rest of the HSD untouched. That completely transformed the vehicle with ~15% better acceleration, ~8% worse efficiency, but mostly importantly way better NVH.

I originally expected Lexus to have a detuned S20-FTS based HSD (maybe 160kW/320N.m on the ICE compared to 141kW/239N.m currently) with a combined output of close to 200kW for the 350h system. But unfortunately in a typical Lexus fashion they decided to keep a really old underwhelming system that we will have to live with for the rest of the decade.

The 500h system is indeed a joke because they managed to make something less powerful, less smooth, less efficient more complicated. Almost everything about it is a downgrade compared to the HSD except for the rear eAxle. But the eAxle could be used with HSD too.

 

[Will1991]

You can't see the new 500h as a "current" 500h replacement, but rather a 350 (V6 N/A) replacement.

This new 500h powertrain is for those who a couple of years ago didn't want a hybrid, for those who prefer a more conventional way of driving feel, for those who have a RX350 (V6) and wanted something more powerful.

And in that way, TMC managed to do a homerun, using the majority of components from the new 350 (2.4T) powertrain, just think about the modularity.

 

[JustADude]

I'm noticing a couple of people online feverishly wanting the NA 2.5 hybrid powertrain in Toyota's and Lexus' bigger products. The fact that these guys are fine with the A25A-FKS being an option in the Tacoma now helps me to understand why Toyota's standards are so god damn low.

The A25A hybrid will be a replacement for the 2.7L I4, which will be better in probably every way. Pure all out towing maybe not but no one is towing with a base engine, hell with a midsized truck even. That hybrid in the Highlander has the same tow rating as the Tacoma I4, both at 3,500lbs. Plus it has way more torque. This is Toyota's best seller truck, so giving it different varieties like a traditional hybrid (lots of mpgs) will be fine.

 

[JustADude]

Also, the Tacoma/4R isn't getting the e-axle, I think that's for FF layout. My best guess, and what makes most sense is they will just put the Tundra hybrid system with the I4T. Tacoma/4R hybrid making around ~310hp ~425lbft. Also, there's no announcement for tomorrow yet? No livestream links or anything. Was expecting that over the weekend.

 

[Gecko]

Y'all have a lot of wild predictions and ideas 😂

I would expect tomorrow to be a teaser shot or pic of the whole thing, but a full release will come later.

 

[Gor134]

Damn, I was expecting full reveal tomorrow.. so they're just doing a partial reveal?

 

[Gecko]

Not sure, but knowing Toyota, I expect a teaser first.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

You can't see the new 500h as a "current" 500h replacement, but rather a 350 (V6 N/A) replacement.

This new 500h powertrain is for those who a couple of years ago didn't want a hybrid, for those who prefer a more conventional way of driving feel, for those who have a RX350 (V6) and wanted something more powerful.

And in that way, TMC managed to do a homerun, using the majority of components from the new 350 (2.4T) powertrain, just think about the modularity.

What you're implying is that Lexus will release a higher powertrain than the 500h for the RX, but they won't.

Lexus put themselves in a very undesirable position by only relegating themselves to four-cylinder power plants. Someone close to Toyota and Lexus needs to tell them that there is huge demand for a six-cylinder option and it would be worth to develop one for all of their vehicles across both the Toyota and Lexus lineup.

A switch in drivetrain configuration would be necessary to carry out these changes, but it would be truly worth it. Knowing Lexus, they'll just stagnate until they release their EVs en masse, as there is a greater likelihood a coconut falling from a tree and hitting my head than Lexus to actually make this move.

 

[Motorsnwheels]

Not sure, but knowing Toyota, I expect a teaser first.

I had the same thought. If it was the full reveal they would provide a time and livestream link or something.

 

[ssun30]

500h certainly isn't a 350 replacement since no RX350 buyer would buy a RX at that price. Their focus group is current F car owners who need more practicality or X5/GLE buyers who switched to Lexus.

 

[ssun30]

And in that way, TMC managed to do a homerun, using the majority of components from the new 350 (2.4T) powertrain, just think about the modularity.

Modularity and scalability means nothing if they don't take advantage of that and actually scale it up, like Volvo does with the Recharge line and Polestar 1. They managed to get a 600PS/1000N.m super sedan with a transverse eAWD platform that can also go 80mi in EV mode.

You will have to wait roughly 30 years for Toyota to make something similar. There's no use to future proof a platform if they don't actually plan to do anything in the future.

The 500h system in its current form could scale up to 330kW(450PS) and 710N.m(523lb.ft) of combined output. But good luck seeing any TMC product with that kind of output with this system.

 

[Will1991]

What you're implying is that Lexus will release a higher powertrain than the 500h for the RX, but they won't.

Lexus put themselves in a very undesirable position by only relegating themselves to four-cylinder power plants. Someone close to Toyota and Lexus needs to tell them that there is huge demand for a six-cylinder option and it would be worth to develop one for all of their vehicles across both the Toyota and Lexus lineup.

A switch in drivetrain configuration would be necessary to carry out these changes, but it would be truly worth it. Knowing Lexus, they'll just stagnate until they release their EVs en masse, as there is a greater likelihood a coconut falling from a tree and hitting my head than Lexus to actually make this move.

In my opinion Lexus is now struggling to do something similar to what Mercedes/BMW/Audi did... Revamp and make deep changes on what the moniker stands for...

In 2007 a LS500 V8 had 360~380hp, a LS/LC500/500h have 360~420hp and a RX500h have 376hp in 2023.

Meanwhile, a 5 series "50i" went from 362hp in 2004 up to 523 by 2023.

Lexus needs to move on as all the others did from a fixed hp number per moniker value.

What will Lexus call a 850i rival? A LC 1000?

500h certainly isn't a 350 replacement since no RX350 buyer would buy a RX at that price. Their focus group is current F car owners who need more practicality or X5/GLE buyers who switched to Lexus.

Well... I'm not so sure... Car prices (new and used) have been climbing sharply this last few years...
In 2019 a Corolla MSRP started around 17k USD now it's more than 20k USD, climbing almost 20% just a couple of years for one of the most simple cars TMC does.
Difference should be even higher on actual payed prices.

A 2019 RX350 started at around 45k USD, a 2023 RX500h starts at around 62k USD... Similar to a GLE350.

Modularity and scalability means nothing if they don't take advantage of that and actually scale it up, like Volvo does with the Recharge line and Polestar 1. They managed to get a 600PS/1000N.m super sedan with a transverse eAWD platform that can also go 80mi in EV mode.

You will have to wait roughly 30 years for Toyota to make something similar. There's no use to future proof a platform if they don't actually plan to do anything in the future.

The 500h system in its current form could scale up to 330kW(450PS) and 710N.m(523lb.ft) of combined output. But good luck seeing any TMC product with that kind of output with this system.

I think modularity for TMC is using the same powertrain for everything, just look at what they're doing with the A25 engine family... It seems to be present everywhere (we're even talking about the possibility to use it in a Tacoma).
They're looking into modularity to lower production costs, not to offer us different things.

 

[Gecko]

 

[Gecko]

MAXimum i-FORCE! The Next Generation Toyota Tacoma is Coming Soon! - Toyota USA Newsroom

PLANO, Texas (April 4, 2023) – The best-selling midsize pick-up in America is all-new for 2024 with electrifying i-FORCE MAX performance.

pressroom.toyota.com