MKV Toyota Supra Master Thread

[supra93]

New rendering I played with.

 

[mikeavelli]

And this is stock... with more carbon fiber bits, wheels etc it will be amazing.

 

[Carmaker1]

The link on my post goes to the official Toyota Global Newsroom's dedicated 2017 Tokyo Motor Show page (again, http://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/tms2017/ ). Said page, at the time I wrote that contained 9 boxes along the left and center columns. One of them had a picture of the Toyota Crown Concept and the other 8 were black with white lettering that reads "STAY TUNED FOR MORE...". At present, 4 of the boxes are filled in (with photos of the Tj Cruiser, GR HV Sports concept, Century and Crown) while the other 5 boxes still remain blank. Hence, my comment that the page hints at 9 global debuts.

Thanks, I couldn't figure out where to find it before.

I can, bearing in mind that each one would involve a collaboration with another carmaker. Here are my thoughts:

MR2
This is the iffiest of the trio, but not totally out of the question. Don't, however, expect a rear-mid-engined sports car like the previous 3 generations. With Toyota now owning a 5% stake in Mazda, and the two broadening their alliance and joint projects, it isn't much of a stretch to picture a production version of the S-FR sports coupe sitting on the latest ND Mazda MX-5 Miata platform. Said platform is front-mid-engined (yes, every bit of the engine sits behind the front axle line, unlike pseudo-front-mid-engine architectures such as Nissan FM or Toyota/Lexus GA-L), so the MR2 badge would be justified.

Arguments against this scenario? For one, Toyota hasn't (as of this writing) renewed the MR2 trademark. Also, I was at that "FRS/BRZ Roundtable here in Miami a couple of years ago with Tada-San" and, even then, the "S-FR as Miata derivative" rumors were around. I asked him about that, but he denied any connection between the two, and at least one other published report echoed the denial Tada-san told me face-to-face. In fact, some published reports have suggested that the production S-FR project is dead.

Then again, the original 86/FR-S/BRZ was such an on-again/off-again project subject to numerous false rumors and off-base renderings (not to mention conflicting reports of how similar or dissimilar the Toyota and Subaru versions would turn out to be). My point? I wouldn't rule out a production S-FR/MR2 yet. There are still 5 unrevealed Toyota debuts for the 2017 Tokyo Motor Show. Whether or not one of those 5 is a new S-FR or MR2 concept will be telling...

Celica
Toyota just renewed this trademark. My suspicion (or personal hope?): that this badge will be applied to the second generation of the joint Toyota/Subaru "middle" sports car. Though some feared that this would be a one-generation wonder, numerous reports suggest that there will be a second generation, and not a denial in sight. I always felt that Celica was the most appropriate badge for this, even ahead of the original's launch, and here's hoping it happens for its successor.

Supra
Obviously, Toyota's top-of-the-line sports car, a fraternal twin to BMW's 3rd-gen Z4 roadster. My fear here is that too much BMWness in the mechanicals would mean that Toyota's vaunted reputation for bulletproof reliability would take a hit.

Ultimately, though, the Supra test mules I've seen look closer than expected in size to the current 86. And a production S-FR/MR2 couldn't be too much smaller than the 86. Maybe it is overkill to make such a trio of closely-spaced/sized sports cars in a crossover SUV-mad world.

Sorry about my being overly pedantic, but compared to last year, it looks like they've gotten to a point where they are strictly running complete prototypes and no longer mules mixed with non-production-intent pieces. The new concept at Tokyo, is very likely the fascia of the next GT86. Mag X reported on a rendering well before debut, that matches what Toyota is showing with the G...#%& Concept (can't remember name; edit GR HV).

Some people are speculating it will be named SPX. I don't believe that and assume it's an internal BMW acronym in German, starting with Supra or Sport. Anyway, I might like my luxury and tolerate hypercars without manual, but not so much a bonafide sports car.

It is laughable the claims of how Toyota will only use a ZF 8-Speed shared with BMW and B58 I6. A manual transmission should be offered. This is not a Lexus, let alone large LC. I'll wait and see, then later congratulate who turned out to be correct at any stage of speculation.

Remember that I am someone, that was born during the middle of A80 development, likely some 6 weeks after the A80 design freeze nearly 3 decades ago. There are those of us under the age of 30 with enough money to buy a new Supra and likely favour what the last generation offered. We grew up seeig the MKIV as the only contemporary Supra during our formative years. I would hope they avoid what Acura did with the new NSX and have not lost the plot.

I won't consider a Supra with only an automatic. If Chevrolet (Corvette), Ford (GT350), and Porsche, offer a manual transmission, I don't see why Toyota once again struggles to do it. It is not to be priced like a Viper, so how can they not?

What I do find odd about the development of this car, is how they already had a final production design approved back in Fall 2014. Yet, this car will come out in early 2019. That is unusally excessive and reeks of programme collaboration mismanagement.

It should not take them that long to ready a production design for Job 1. Even the LFA throughout its many changes, in the end, managed to enter production in December 2010 some 28-29 months after design freeze. This car should be much further along than it is. Remember that there is still time spent well before design approval, which would be closer to 2012 (when both FT-1 started at Calty and BMW collab)

Some "insiders" I wonder how connected they are to all aspects of the programme. Even for X360 XJ programme at Jaguar, I didn't even know 100% everything, let alone the whole brand and that of Land Rover.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Sorry about my being overly pedantic, but compared to last year, it looks like they've gotten to a point where they are strictly running complete prototypes and no longer mules mixed with non-production-intent pieces.

You're absolutely right. Camouflaged pre-production prototype is a far more accurate description of the Mk5 Supra seen in the wild than test mule.

Some people are speculating it will be named SPX.

Gawd, I hope not! SPX are initials I associate with trim-and-wheel packages put together by Southeast Toyota Distributors for black Tacoma and Tundra pickup trucks, not the Supra successor...

 

[supra93]

The 1:18 models are now on eBay. Seller: autobarnmodels

http://www.supramkv.com/threads/the-toyota-ft-1-is-finally-on-sale.613/page-2

 

[maiaramdan]

@supra93
Nice models hope the final thing be like this with the even more color varieties

@Joaquin Ruhi
My same problem regarding the Supra size as I see it nearly as the 86, I even don't know how they fix this size problem
The next 86 or Celica or whatever it will be named maybe turn out to be longer than it's supposed bigger brother

 

[supra93]

 

[Gecko]

^are those just online renders or are they from Toyota? Looks awesome - that front end especially!

 

[supra93]

^are those just online renders or are they from Toyota? Looks awesome - that front end especially!

Japanese car magazine renderings I believe.

 

[supra93]

Looks like we are not going to see anything at Tokyo after all.

What appears to be 8 and 9.

 

[Gecko]

If not Tokyo, then Toyota has to debut this car in Detroit at NAIAS... right?

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Looks like we are not going to see anything at Tokyo after all.

What appears to be 8 and 9.

How and where did you find those? I just looked, and they're not on either the Toyota Global Newsroom nor on their official 2017 Tokyo Motor Show site.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

If not Tokyo, then Toyota has to debut this car in Detroit at NAIAS... right?

I guess. I hope. Detroit 2018 would be the 4th anniversary of the FT-1 Concept unveiling.

 

[supra93]

How and where did you find those? I just looked, and they're not on either the Toyota Global Newsroom nor on their official 2017 Tokyo Motor Show site.

Go to the 2017 Tokyo Motor Show page and click view source. You will find the following:

http://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/pages/tokyoms/2017/images/top/008.jpg
http://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/pages/tokyoms/2017/images/top/009.jpg

 

[krew]

If not Tokyo, then Toyota has to debut this car in Detroit at NAIAS... right?

I would have guess NAIAS all along -- it's the major TMC show on all fronts, and the Supra is perfect for that stage.

As a luxury over performance kind of enthusiast, I'm surprised how excited I am about this car. Not crazy about BMW being so involved, but what can you do...

 

[supra93]

If not Tokyo, then Toyota has to debut this car in Detroit at NAIAS... right?

Most likely, it could even be Chicago in February. That is where the MK4 debuted.

 

[supra93]

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Autocar's 2017 Tokyo Motor Show live blog has this from Jim Holder:

The BMW Z4 is - sadly - as close as we’ll get to seeing the Toyota Supra (with which it shares its platform) in Tokyo this year. Word is Toyota - or should that be Gazoo Racing’s - offering will be shown sometime next year, prior to an on-sale date in 2019.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-tokyo-motor-show/2017-tokyo-motor-show-live-coverage

In other words, forget the notion of seeing the Mk5 Supra concept at the Los Angeles Auto Show just over a month from now. Detroit is way likelier.

 

[supra93]

TOYOTA PLOTTING NEXT GENERATION OF SPORTS CARS

Exec dishes on GR sub-brand, Supra, and next Toyobaru

Although the Supra sports car co-developed with BMW is no secret, Toyota this week revealed two next-generation sports cars that are likely to enter the lineup.

Although there were doubts whether Toyota and Subaru would continue their joint venture to make a second-generation 86 and BRZ, the two automakers “are already in discussion” to continue the rear-drive sporty coupe, said Shigeki Tomoyama, Toyota Motor Corp. senior managing officer.

Also raising eyebrows at the Tokyo Motor Show was Toyota’s GR HV Sports concept. Although some thought this targa-top coupe was a preview of the next 86/BRZ mashup, Tomoyama said this car was something further up the food chain, using the hybrid racing technology borrowed from the World Endurance Championship.

The WEC car, code-named TS050 in the LMP1 class, runs an engine with 45 percent thermal efficiency. Whereas Toyota used supercapacitors in previous WEC iterations, the TS050 has a motor-generator unit at each axle, with energy storage coming from cockpit-mounted, regenerative lithium-ion battery packs. When that feeds the 2.4-liter turbo V-6, total system output nears 1,000 hp.

But anyone can make horsepower. The real story, especially in endurance racing, is thermal efficiency. Most passenger cars are lucky if they reach 35 percent. But Toyota has a target of 50 percent thermal efficiency, said Tomoyama, who is president of Gazoo Racing and of Toyota’s connectivity efforts.

With a 173-inch length, 71-inch width, and 50.4-inch height, the GR HV Sports is about 7 inches longer than the Toyota 86 but about the same width and height.

Although no final decision has been made to build the car, Tomoyama said: “We would like to commercialize such kinds of sports vehicles with that kind of efficiency.”

As for the Supra, Tomoyama confirmed that Toyota wants the vehicle to have a straight-six layout and be “light and powerful.”

Tomoyama said Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda—driving under his racing alter ego “Morizo”—has been active in testing the Supra at the Nürburgring and elsewhere.

“We are focusing on rear tire traction and contact with the road,” Tomoyama said. “Cornering within smaller-diameter (tight) corners will be very important. The rear tires will need a little slip, and drivers need to know (the limit) of the slip.”

As for how much the Supra will be similar to the BMW Z4, Tomoyama said that Toyota utilized “some” parts from BMW, “but the model we are developing will be completely different. We will not disappoint.”

As a benchmark, Tomoyama has brought his personal 1997 Supra, tuned to 600 hp, into the Toyota executive parking lot. The Supra makes so much noise compared to most executives’ cars that the parking attendant tried to throw him out of the lot, determining that Tomoyama was a youthful imposter. Now, Tomoyama said: “He bows very deeply to me.”

Gazoo is now involved in tuning the Lexus “F” models, specifically the next-generation GS-F.

“We are looking at what kind of target audience the car has, what tone and manner, how much understeer and oversteer balance,”Tomoyama said. “The cars have to run faster, and that tuning is already (in place). Even within Lexus, we may have different models which have different tuning.”

As for whether Gazoo Racing will make specific inroads into the U.S. market, Tomoyama said that the brand will not interfere with the existing Toyota Racing Development group.

“TRD is a brand of parts, a customization brand. Gazoo Racing ranges from development of a car in production to sales. Of course, customization is part of Gazoo Racing. But Gazoo is going to launch a very pure sports vehicle in the future, and then you will know difference between GR and other companies.”

But for now, Gazoo is focused on the European and Japanese markets, where endurance and rally racing are more popular. In eyeing the American market, Gazoo is in early talks with folks interested in NASCAR and the IndyCar series.

But anyone lusting for a Gazoo Camry will have to wait a while, Tomoyama said: “We would rather launch a sports car with a dedicated special platform.”

http://www.motortrend.com/news/toyota-plotting-next-generation-of-sports-cars/

 

[Carmaker1]

Most likely, it could even be Chicago in February. That is where the MK4 debuted.

Interesting look back at introduction of the A80 Supra and what was new back in 1993 for the 1994 model year and MY 1993.5. Random tidbit, the MKIV was the first global Toyota to be offered with dual airbags, following the LS 400 and SC coupe months earlier in 1992. LS became first Japanese car with side airbags in 1996 and Toyota introduced the curtain airbag in May 1998.

I have the design and development story on those 3 cars (LS 400, SC, and A80 Supra). The A80 Supra final design, was frozen at the end of 1990, deep in Toyota's golden era.

I can only hope that BMW isn't the party that decides what is necessary in their collaboration and doesn't screw Toyota over.

Cannot under why it is taking 7 years to deliver on this car.