2018 LS Master Thread (Debuts 1/9/17 8:30am -2017 NAIAS)

[meth.ix]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the LS teaser image is of an F-Sport model.

I highly doubt that they would show the F Sport model as the teaser

 

[meth.ix]

I just had to join up the forums guys and offer my two cents. I'm Ryan from Scotland by the way.

Been watching the developments of the LF-FC to reality for the past year and been enjoying each little tidbit of information, but today have been totally disappointed.

There are two things that don't give me hope that the new LS is going to be 'LF-FC to LC500' levels of concept to reality. First of all, the grille looks a solid 30%-40% smaller than the concept. Although the concept was outlandish, the grill being so huge and menacing was what gave it the almighty presence.

Next, the tall vertical air intakes have been axed for small meek rounded things. Again, not the concept.

So after a year of being hyped that Lexus would pull another LC for us all, it now looks like the car I have been absolutely in love with won't come to market in the form I am used to obsessing over.

When I was reading the thread the one thing I did note was that where you guys seeemed happy with the tame renderings, I was really disappointed each time to see essentially a facelift of what exists now rather than a radical re-think.

Wonder what you guys think...

Ryan

idk... I think the LF-FC was way too aggressive and sporty to be seen as a luxurious. This tamer design definitely seems to look slightly aggressive while still offering a grand look. The LF-FC might have looked better for an LS F maybe.

 

[Lexus Cohen]

Talking about GS is off the topic in this thread so I'm not going to dig deep into it, but I heard the rumor from again reliable information provider that either GS or ES (he wouldn't tell me what it specifically is) will disappear from Lexus lineup. Considering its sales slump and difficulty in positioning itself in the lineup, I suspect it will be GS. But this is JUST a rumor and uncertain, so for now I strongly hope this is never gonna happen.

That would be very disappointing to get rid of the GS! The ES needs to go!

 

[CIF]

I highly doubt that they would show the F Sport model as the teaser

Well anything is possible, and you're possibly right. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed. One thing to keep in mind is with production debuts, Lexus (and Toyota) almost never debuts with the base model at an auto show. They usually debut a fully loaded/optional trim and/or hybrid model.

 

[Carmaker1]

I'm really starting to wonder if the horizontal grille bars are dead. They are absent from the LC, which I was ok with because it's a sporty product, but for an LS to debut with only a mesh grille.... I'm surprised.

Not sure how much I am allowed to even address this, but I had alluded to this many months ago. Everything is not 100% as it seems in that regard.

Yup! Looks like the renderings we have been seeing were quite accurate. And it looks like the two Lexus Flagships are abandoning the horizontal slat Spindle Grille entirely for the mesh grille, even on the non-F Sport, which I remember someone predicting. It honestly looks incredible, and Lexus is saying that it will have a "coupe-like silhouette" which is exactly what I remember reading in an old BEYOND by Lexus article on the LF-FC lol. Unlike the LC, this seems to have a chrome bar on the top of the grille too.

That would be me specifically many months ago. I guess you'll see soon for sure in the coming months.

I really hope Lexus does not abandon the horizontal grille bars/slats on the 5LS. Currently you can get the horizontal grille slats on almost every main Lexus model, save the RC and full F models. The RC though is kind of a black sheep styling-wise in the Lexus lineup.

The LC now also breaks from tradition. What's really concerning to me is that the LC, as a base main model looks like an F-Sport model. From the grille design, to the tires (run flat only), to the complete lack of wood trim in the interior, to the sporty seats, to the LFA-style instrument panel, and so on...it all makes it look like an F-Sport model, even though it is not classed as such. Further muddying things is the fact that the LC has the RC F and GS F engine....but it's not an F model. Quite a few things IMHO don't make sense regarding the LC, and I really hope that it's an exception like the RC (and LFA), and not the start of some trend that carries on to the 5LS and other future models.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the LS teaser image is of an F-Sport model.

Also we can now officially say that since the 4LS debuted in January 2006, and the 5LS is now debuting in January 2017, it will be a full 11 years between generations. That is just ridiculous. Lexus should be ashamed of themselves for letting it come to this, to have such a MASSIVE time gap between generations.

I had intended not to say much regarding the LS, primarily due to a formal agreement I had signed, I'll just say a little. Very pleased to see 17 months later, I have been proven right and was the first person to highlight in July 2015, that the 5LS debut would be introduced at the 2017 NAIAS.

My quote: July 10, 2015

Looks like XenForo stupidly screwed up and deleted my response above. That is what I was referring to in regards to the LF-Sh, debuting in October 2005, after these September 2005 leaks and just as the first XF40 prototypes started being caught on camera. The 2007 LS was unveiled on January 8, 2006, but in this case we may not see this happening. I really hope I am wrong, but so far the evidence between the lines proves otherwise...


...Hmm, I wonder why I forgot a 2.5 litre would be a V6 instead of a 2.5 litre I4? I thought a 3.0l V6 would be the case, unless that is going to be twin-turbo and the LS250t (as a V6) not be. BTW, I do not believe the LS is following the LF-NX formula. It will be LF-LS at Tokyo, then 2018 LS at Detroit/NAIAS 2017.

Thankfully now that Toyota has removed that portion of LS embargo, there's no harm in discussing at least that part. All in the midst of hare-brained Tokyo 2015, NAIAS 2016, and NYIAS 2016 theories. I do not believe any other person or source echoed that assertion, until May of 2016 when I posted a rendering I bought from Mag-X.

In the middle of that, so many media sources have unfairly (and ignorantly) attributed that prediction of mine to Japan's Mag-X, who solely provided early information on a May 2017 JDM sales date and that of a correct illustration. It is very disappointing, the piss-poor jobs many "journalists" do on that front and then still repeat the same mistakes.

One can see, the serious lack of credibility many of them to have. None of them will manage nor even bother to do that, instead rely on fallacious rumours (see LC500 = BMW platform). In the last week, I have came across many other industry developments and secrets, especially regarding Toyota. These, at least do not involve NDAs, so I will discuss them in a little bit.

On another note, I had alluded a few times this year to the grille design changing to a "complex mesh" form, since studying the LC500 and LC500h in the early 2016. Now, as for if I still support my original stance regarding the evolution of the LS grilles, based on what I've seen lately of the LS500h, that's very difficult to answer in a forum post at the moment.

Been watching the developments of the LF-FC to reality for the past year and been enjoying each little tidbit of information, but today have been totally disappointed.

There are two things that don't give me hope that the new LS is going to be 'LF-FC to LC500' levels of concept to reality. First of all, the grille looks a solid 30%-40% smaller than the concept. Although the concept was outlandish, the grill being so huge and menacing was what gave it the almighty presence.

Next, the tall vertical air intakes have been axed for small meek rounded things. Again, not the concept.

So after a year of being hyped that Lexus would pull another LC for us all, it now looks like the car I have been absolutely in love with won't come to market in the form I am used to obsessing over.

When I was reading the thread the one thing I did note was that where you guys seeemed happy with the tame renderings, I was really disappointed each time to see essentially a facelift of what exists now rather than a radical re-think.

Wonder what you guys think...

Ryan

Welcome Ryan. At the risk of saying too much in my case, I had pointed at many months ago, even well before providing that Mag-X rendering in late April or May this year, that a Jaguar customer had seen the new LS before me and noted very well that it did not look as close to the LF-FC Concept, but still close enough.

Seeing spy shots from mid-2016 and recently tangible evidence in the car itself, I see his point. Then again, people have to realize the development approach to both vehicles is extremely different in regards to timeline or the order of development stages.

I had pointed out in 2015 or "prior to November 2016", that the LS design was approved in 2014 and the design for the LF-FC Concept was worked on after that. The earliest sketch I have of that concept, is dated in September 2014.

The clay model for the concept was barely built and presented 2 years ago on December 3, 2014 to management. At that time, the production LS body was already finalized and being shown to Lexus insiders weeks before that.

No one can nor should expect a company to change a finalised production design for a such a complex product in a large global luxury saloon, in favour of a subsequent design, without experiencing some further delays.

The idea of the LC500 had been in works since about 2010, only for the 950A programme to start getting together in late 2011 and then from there, fully being formalised in 2012-13. By the time the final design was frozen 2 1/2 years for the LC/950A programme, it had been already 3 years since Edward Lee's CALTY design had been proposed in clay.

The 200B LS likely differed from that, due to the fact there was no LS concept show car being dangled around in 2011-13 at auto shows, for Lexus designers to study for inspiration or "productionise". The LS 200B programme has been a straightforward vehicle development programme, not one hinged on a concept car.

It was strictly what was internally presented by production vehicle exterior designers, being engineering finessed, and signed off for production. Not the work of an advanced designer taking centre stage like 950A LC coupe and then development taking off.

Bear in mind that the LF-LC design was frozen in the first half of 2011 after being in progress since May 2010 and then fully concluded in November 2011. By comparison, the 200B LS entered development around then and did not base itself around the LF-FC. The LF-FC is based on the 5LS, not the other way around. This is the real problem most OEMs have with "concept cars", as the public doesn't always distinguish between that.

I hope I have not said too much, in the respect this strictly concerns things not released to me recently.

 

[Lexus Cohen]

I really hope Lexus does not abandon the horizontal grille bars/slats on the 5LS. Currently you can get the horizontal grille slats on almost every main Lexus model, save the RC and full F models. The RC though is kind of a black sheep styling-wise in the Lexus lineup.

The LC now also breaks from tradition. What's really concerning to me is that the LC, as a base main model looks like an F-Sport model. From the grille design, to the tires (run flat only), to the complete lack of wood trim in the interior, to the sporty seats, to the LFA-style instrument panel, and so on...it all makes it look like an F-Sport model, even though it is not classed as such. Further muddying things is the fact that the LC has the RC F and GS F engine....but it's not an F model. Quite a few things IMHO don't make sense regarding the LC, and I really hope that it's an exception like the RC (and LFA), and not the start of some trend that carries on to the 5LS and other future models.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the LS teaser image is of an F-Sport model.

Also we can now officially say that since the 4LS debuted in January 2006, and the 5LS is now debuting in January 2017, it will be a full 11 years between generations. That is just ridiculous. Lexus should be ashamed of themselves for letting it come to this, to have such a MASSIVE time gap between generations.

I agree with some of what you said!

 

[GuoxJason]

A sleek car is cool, but a flagship sedan should be stately and imposing! Anyway, I cannot wait!

 

[White Beach]

Bright, new future for Lexus! With the LS and LC together, 8th December, 2016 will forever be remembered!

 

[zeusus]

LS v. LC, wow two great cars I want them both but for me the LC comes first and I've been itching for a sports car.

 

[Lexus Cohen]

LS v. LC, wow two great cars I want them both but for me the LC comes first and I've been itching for a sports car.

Both for me also

 

[Levi]

I am not a fan of the hood shutline, that is not at the top of the grill like the LC, but above it. I prefer the execution of Audi and new BMWs (and Lexus LC) than that of Mercedes-Benz (same as new LS), but if the rest of the LS design is good (something I personally cannot say about Mercedes S and BMW 7 Series with the "right" shutline), then that is a negligible "issue".

From the rest, I like the headlights, very stylish and not oversized (again looking at German competitors). I also see double wishbone front suspension, relatively back pushed engine mounting and the engine is a V engine. Now the question which one? V6 or V8? With or without turbo?

 

[Black Dynamite]

I just had to join up the forums guys and offer my two cents. I'm Ryan from Scotland by the way.

Been watching the developments of the LF-FC to reality for the past year and been enjoying each little tidbit of information, but today have been totally disappointed.

There are two things that don't give me hope that the new LS is going to be 'LF-FC to LC500' levels of concept to reality. First of all, the grille looks a solid 30%-40% smaller than the concept. Although the concept was outlandish, the grill being so huge and menacing was what gave it the almighty presence.

Next, the tall vertical air intakes have been axed for small meek rounded things. Again, not the concept.

So after a year of being hyped that Lexus would pull another LC for us all, it now looks like the car I have been absolutely in love with won't come to market in the form I am used to obsessing over.

When I was reading the thread the one thing I did note was that where you guys seeemed happy with the tame renderings, I was really disappointed each time to see essentially a facelift of what exists now rather than a radical re-think.

Wonder what you guys think...

Ryan

The grille looks huge to me. Its hard to tell with the vehicle angled away from you, but the bottom of the grille almost reaches the side of the car!

 

[Black Dynamite]

I like what I'm seeing here. The hood looks very tall from this angle, but it could just be the angle of the shot.
Very happy with the LC and LS reveals. The only problem is releasing them both the same day is not great marketing.
That's not Dynamite!
BD

 

[James]

I am not a fan of the hood shutline, that is not at the top of the grill like the LC, but above it. I prefer the execution of Audi and new BMWs (and Lexus LC) than that of Mercedes-Benz (same as new LS), but if the rest of the LS design is good (something I personally cannot say about Mercedes S and BMW 7 Series with the "right" shutline), then that is a negligible "issue".

From the rest, I like the headlights, very stylish and not oversized (again looking at German competitors). I also see double wishbone front suspension, relatively back pushed engine mounting and the engine is a V engine. Now the question which one? V6 or V8? With or without turbo?

I think that is the million dollar question...it seems weird to me that they would finally get rid of the V8 in the LS since the LS always has one. Any chance for turbo 6 full V8 and new hybrid? Seems like a lot but I'm sure they are itching to get the new turbo six to the eyes of the public.

 

[CIF]

On another note, I had alluded a few times this year to the grille design changing to a "complex mesh" form, since studying the LC500 and LC500h in the early 2016. Now, as for if I still support my original stance regarding the evolution of the LS grilles, based on what I've seen lately of the LS500h, that's very difficult to answer in a forum post at the moment.

Well I was hoping this wouldn't be the case, but it seems possibly more and more likely that even the base model is moving to the complex "3D" mesh grille design. My own opinion aside, objectively it's a curious decision because it will make it harder to visually differentiate a standard base model from an F-Sport model.

 

[Gecko]

I was not really expecting the LF-FC to translate even 90% to the production LS after 1) looking at Carmaker1's posts, 2) looking at spy shots and 3) looking at the size of the concept. The LF-FC measures some 4 inches longer, 5 inches wider and 3 inches lower than the current LS 460L. Those are concept car stats in comparison to the current production model, even if the 5LS was expected to grow a bit.

Think about a car that's a more realistic size for a road going sedan and you end up with something a little taller, narrower and shorter. Just to be expected. Scaling those things down will also reduce the drama of the concept - smaller grille, higher height, smaller wheels, etc.

I'm actually sort of shocked at how much the teaser looks like the LF-FC. I was expecting a more conservative grille with horizontal slats and a less dramatic overall spindle shape. Looking at the spy shots, it seems like this spindle will actually be the most dramatic yet - moreso than the LC even.

I'm very excited to see what Lexus delivers with this car - I think they are right on target.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

When I was reading the thread the one thing I did note was that where you guys seeemed happy with the tame renderings, I was really disappointed each time to see essentially a facelift of what exists now rather than a radical re-think.

I daily drive a 2015 LS. For all the grumbling you hear about how old the basic design is, it's still a great-looking car and it still draws compliments, especially fresh from the detailer's. Not to say that it doesn't need an update, of course. Lexus design is moving forward and the LS needs to keep up.

Regarding the latest spy shots and renderings, I think they're coming out pretty close to how I expected. The major elements that made me fall in love with the LF-FC concept are still present. One thing I definitely wasn't expecting was an exact clone of the concept. Even the LC isn't perfectly like the concept, and the LS is in a *far* more conservative segment. The existing LS's spindle grille is approximately the most daring thing someone's done in that segment since the switchover from horses, so I think it's natural that they aren't going nuts on the rest of the car. It's still going to look a lot newer than the existing model.

Where I *do* expect significant changes for the 5LS is the interior, but I'm not quite sure what to expect there yet. Only about 6 weeks to go

 

[mikeavelli]

I daily drive a 2015 LS. For all the grumbling you hear about how old the basic design is, it's still a great-looking car and it still draws compliments, especially fresh from the detailer's. Not to say that it doesn't need an update, of course. Lexus design is moving forward and the LS needs to keep up.

Ian, I didn't realize you had a 15! I agree with you, I was eyeing my 14 today and I think the LS has aged amazingly well and in particular the front is so aggressive and different to the rest of the class. While I can't wait for the new one, the current one has lasted the test of time....

 

[CIF]

I think many of us can agree that the 4LS stands the test of time styling-wise, but the next generation has been long overdue .

Just recently I saw a 2015 or 2016 on the road, a Cashmere Metallic, coming fresh out of a car wash, and it still definitely catches your eye. Even if a bit dated, it still looks luxurious and prestigious, just not as much as before due to better competition.

 

[mikeavelli]

I think many of us can agree that the 4LS stands the test of time styling-wise, but the next generation has been long overdue .

Just recently I saw a 2015 or 2016 on the road, a Cashmere Metallic, coming fresh out of a car wash, and it still definitely catches your eye. Even if a bit dated, it still looks luxurious and prestigious, just not as much as before due to better competition.

I am hugely biased and I have great great respect for the other cars in this class but the front end of the LS makes me swoon.....how I wish it had at least 500hp...