2018 LS Master Thread (Debuts 1/9/17 8:30am -2017 NAIAS)

[Gecko]

I think an F Sport model would be appropriate for LS. I get it not happening with LC, as it's a sporty GT car, but as a big luxury cruiser, I think LS needs it's own dedicated model.

 

[maiaramdan]

the LS now either go the Quattroporte / Rapide / Panamera
or going S / 7 / A8-S8

if they go with the S / 7 / A8-S8
then they will do as the current S and current 7 selling the LWB in USA as the normal
and selling 2 wheel bases out of USA

but if they go the Quattroporte / Rapide / Panamera
which i feel they will go for . this will make them have only 1 wheel base and in this case they will be in need to another new model maybe under Lexus as MS for example or under Toyota as the next generation Majesta which also due in the next year and will be the Original Classic Lux. LS and this is what i am thinking about

now confirmed the next year we will see
new generation LS , Majesta & Century
and from my view from all what we hear about it that the LS / GS / IS will be sporty lux. and the Majesta / Crown / Mark-x as the Original Lexus Classic lux.
and the Century as it must be classic lux. as the top
this is honestly what i am thinking about it from all the news from the previous year and this year news and from Akio word that Lexus will go Sport and Toyota will go Classic and Practicality

 

[Levi]

the LS now either go the Quattroporte / Rapide / Panamera
or going S / 7 / A8-S8

Panamera mk1 has LWB version, mk2 don't know yet.

 

[maiaramdan]

^^^
i know but it's mainly for Chinese market
honestly every German car have a LWB in China even the compact A4 / C / 3

 

[Carmaker1]

I am certain the LS will be the best looking car in class. I already mentioned how incoherent and how many mistakes the other cars in this class have, it is just shameful. And of course the LS will be the best looking and best proportioned long wheel base vehicle, because it is clear Lexus designs the LS around the long wheel base version, not like the Germans around the short wheel base version and then cheaply extend the rear door which dis-balances the car.

Excuse me, but I very much disagree with this statement, as it is subjective. Especially in regard to the W222 S-Class. Mercedes-Benz specifically designed it in 2006-09 with the LWB first in mind, then downsized it for the SWB.

Lexus has never done that, until maybe now.

 

[Carmaker1]

I wouldn't be surprised if the next-generation LS bears a strong stylistic resemblance to the LC, which IMO is not a bad thing at all. The silhouette of the hood in these pictures certainly lends itself to that supposition. It would be an excellent move in terms of market positioning for Lexus to draw a link between the two cars as well, a la the Mercedes S-class and S-class coupe.

I had thought this to be a possibility since spring 2015 and the stylistic similarities between the LC500 and LS500 have confirmed that.

No insider info on this, but I have to think Lexus abandons the SWB/LWB -- it's not going to sell in volume anyway, so why complicate things? Also gives Lexus a chance to elevate the GS a bit.

I wonder too, maybe Lexus uses the LC as a template for the LS -- two engines, no F SPORT, then a LS F a couple years later.

I'm not sure that is going to happen, as it seems there will be more than just two engines. A 2.5L turbo inline-4 might be coming, as well as a 3.0L twin-turbo 6-cylinder, the V8 LS500, and LS500h.

I also doubt they'll abandon an LWB, if not make it standard offering stateside and offer UK and other markets both SWB/LWB.

Only offering the G12 stateside, gave BMW more room for the G30 5-Series due next year. MB has always done this with the E-Class and S-Class. The next GS would benefit from that set-up.

You were dead on. That's so awesome -- do you have a spreadsheet to keep track, or just an amazing memory?

Lol, thanks! I don't really write anything down, it is really just memorizing it all. Bad idea though, as it is hard to reference any past information years down the road.

I have to wonder what that means though, as the RC-F entered production the next August (2014), the LC500 this December, and the LS next May or June? With the CT getting semi-autonomous tech, does it mean the LS comes after it or that with a play on words, the LS gets fully autonomous tech?

Finally! Great to see the 5LS in production body form. It's amazing how many years we've been waiting to see such prototypes. This confirms that the production model will debut soon.

Heavy camouflage is a given. Those retro decoy headlights and taillights are a nice touch. Combined with the heavy black camo, they really throw off the styling details at the 4 corners of the vehicle.



That would be odd I think. LWB doesn't sell extremely well in North America. It does in overseas markets. You have to consider the LS is a world model, so different variants suited for different markets.

This is the prestige luxury segment. I think choice should be paramount. As in, more choice and customization, not less.

No F Sport I also believe would be a bad idea.

Look at all the variants, wheelbases, etc. for the S Class.

I think at least 3 powertrain options for the regular 5LS would work. Gas, hybrid, hydrogen, plus an LS F. Even better if they offer two different gas engines, plus hybrid, hydrogen, and LS F.

After I had chastised Motor1 for implying that the LF-FC influenced the 2018 LS, someone mysteriously made some rather bold statements in response to me last week.

He not only echoed my viewpoint, but boldly claimed that the car has been in development for 6 years and LS500 mules have been running around Japan since 2012. It does not sound out of the ordinary, does it?

No one else has made such a connection, with the fact the current facelift version was mostly designed in 2010 and then finished up during 2011 and early 2012. It is posssible that he is right and Toyoda cancelled the car in 2009, then later started work on both a late 2012 facelift and then a full redesign for a launch window of late 2015 to mid-2016.

As soon as work on a redesign on the same platform (MY2013) reached a pivotal stage in 2010, the 200B programme commenced.

Competitive pressure by 2013-14, powertrain delays, and the LC coupe, forced them to push back the car to 2017 further inprove it. 2017 is the 80th anniversary of Toyota, so is this why so many developments are arriving next year?

A new Century will be on GA-L, to celebrate 50 years. This of course has been reported for awhile.

 

[Carmaker1]

On another note, I am very disappointed with how the media doesn't how understand how Lexus Future (LF) concepts are intended most of the time nor that of many other brands.

I keep reading that LF-FC cues will "transfer" to the next LS, when that is an inaccurate, if not senseless statement. One would expect automotive journalists to know better than the average car enthusiast.

Regarding Nissan Motor Co., little does anyone know that the Infiniti QX Sport Concept that was shown in Beijing, will be built in Mexico next year as the 2018 QX50 and is partly being developed there in Aguascalientes. A Nissan secret no one knew outside of that company, until I typed this right now. No one in media has reported this.

I also told them, that design work was completed on that in mid-2014 and the concept was just an early preview from Infiniti without all the details. They don't listen and then sing a different tune upon final production reveal.

As for Lexus, it is quite similar. The LF-FC is not what was shown to Lexus personnel nearly 2 years ago. The LS itself was shown in October 2014 and the LF-FC barely made into clay by early December 2014.

Yet, it is assumed that Lexus products are developed without care, as to allow Toyota execs to change their minds' last minute via turning the LF-FC into the 5LS. I doubt it is any different styling wise than it was in fall 2014.

Problem is when it comes out, everyone will claim that Lexus "watered-down" it from LF-FC, when the facelift 5LS and FCEV will probably echoe that more later on. It is only similar, but not identical to the new model.

 

[CIF]

After I had chastised Motor1 for implying that the LF-FC influenced the 2018 LS, someone mysteriously made some rather bold statements in response to me last week.

He not only echoed my viewpoint, but boldly claimed that the car has been in development for 6 years and LS500 mules have been running around Japan since 2012. It does not sound out of the ordinary, does it?

No one else has made such a connection, with the fact the current facelift version was mostly designed in 2010 and then finished up during 2011 and early 2012. It is posssible that he is right and Toyoda cancelled the car in 2009, then later started work on both a late 2012 facelift and then a full redesign for a launch window of late 2015 to mid-2016.

As soon as work on a redesign on the same platform (MY2013) reached a pivotal stage in 2010, the 200B programme commenced.

Competitive pressure by 2013-14, powertrain delays, and the LC coupe, forced them to push back the car to 2017 further inprove it. 2017 is the 80th anniversary of Toyota, so is this why so many developments are arriving next year?

A new Century will be on GA-L, to celebrate 50 years. This of course has been reported for awhile.

To me it would make sense. For a few years now I have been convinced the 5LS has been on a special development cycle, that only compares to the LFA and original 1LS development cycles. I am definitely convinced Toyota has had 5LS mules running around for at least 4-5 years already. In regular Lexus development cycles, this is unprecedented. Of course, the 1LS and LFA development cycles were also unprecedented. If the 5LS comes close to being as significant as the 1LS and LFA, then such a long development cycle makes sense. Combined with delays that developed, it all makes too much sense. This would fit the timeline that some senior dealership insiders and company personnel were shown the 5LS itself in 2014. For the 5LS to have been shown in 2014, certainly Toyota must have had mules by 2013 at the latest running around, but I can certainly believe they had mules since 2012.

In contrast, the seemingly short LC development cycle is highly puzzling. The LC is also a prestige product, certainly not entry-level. It puzzles me why the development cycle was so short...if you believe the official Toyota narrative. However I am starting to have some serious doubts. There's no way Toyota can maintain their Lexus levels of quality and reliability on the LC with such a short development cycle if they started development only after the LF-LC concept got such great reception. It also makes no sense because historically all Lexus concepts simply preview coming products models, and are usually 'made in reverse', deriving the concepts from the production vehicles themselves. So I have serious doubts about Toyota's official story of the LC development. I think in reality, two things went on here. First off, I think LC development started well before the LF-LC concept even debuted. Secondly, I believe the 5LS team had already done some significant work on the GA-L platform that benefited the LC team.

Combined with the information you've mentioned, I think the 5LS has been in development proper since at least 2010. I think originally early development may have started in 2008 or 2009, but was cancelled or scrapped by Akio Toyoda and development re-started on a more ambitious 5LS around late 2009/early 2010, with the early scrapped development ideas going into the 4LS 2012 refresh. I have for quite a while now firmly believed that 5LS early development started well before 2010, was deemed not good enough by Akio Toyoda, and was then scrapped and development restarted for a more ambitious 5LS, with the leftover scrapped ideas going into that 2012 refresh.

This would fit very well, the timeline of LC development, the idea that the LC was already being developed when the LF-LC concept debuted. It would also match the idea that by the time of the LF-LC debut, some significant development on the GA-L platform had been already done by the 5LS team, which aided the LC team. Finally all of this would tie into the delays that affected the 5LS, leading us to where we are today.

To me, that all makes much more sense than any official Toyota PR narratives or stories.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Mercedes-Benz specifically designed it in 2006-09 with the LWB first in mind, then downsized it for the SWB.

Lexus has never done that, until maybe now.

It's been widely observed that the LWB 4LS has more natural proportions than the SWB, so maybe Lexus *has* done that.

 

[Gecko]

At this point, to be seen as successful, the 5LS needs to weigh 3,500lbs, pack a 550hp twin-turbo V6/hybrid setup, look like a four door version of the LC, and offer bonsai wood trim with unicorn leather.

 

[James]

At this point, to be seen as successful, the 5LS needs to weigh 3,500lbs, pack a 550hp twin-turbo V6/hybrid setup, look like a four door version of the LC, and offer bonsai wood trim with unicorn leather.

Gecko that exactly sounds perfect. Shouldn't be too difficult right..

 

[mikeavelli]

Regarding Nissan Motor Co., little does anyone know that the Infiniti QX Sport Concept that was shown in Beijing, will be built in Mexico next year as the 2018 QX50 and is partly being developed there in Aguascalientes. A Nissan secret no one knew outside of that company, until I typed this right now. No one in media has reported this.

.

Mexico continues to become an auto manufacturing powerhouse. Didn't realize Infiniti was building there next.

 

[krew]

At this point, to be seen as successful, the 5LS needs to weigh 3,500lbs, pack a 550hp twin-turbo V6/hybrid setup, look like a four door version of the LC, and offer bonsai wood trim with unicorn leather.

Someone's been peeking at confidential product planning documents!

 

[Carmaker1]

To me it would make sense. For a few years now I have been convinced the 5LS has been on a special development cycle, that only compares to the LFA and original 1LS development cycles. I am definitely convinced Toyota has had 5LS mules running around for at least 4-5 years already. In regular Lexus development cycles, this is unprecedented. Of course, the 1LS and LFA development cycles were also unprecedented. If the 5LS comes close to being as significant as the 1LS and LFA, then such a long development cycle makes sense. Combined with delays that developed, it all makes too much sense. This would fit the timeline that some senior dealership insiders and company personnel were shown the 5LS itself in 2014. For the 5LS to have been shown in 2014, certainly Toyota must have had mules by 2013 at the latest running around, but I can certainly believe they had mules since 2012.

In contrast, the seemingly short LC development cycle is highly puzzling. The LC is also a prestige product, certainly not entry-level. It puzzles me why the development cycle was so short...if you believe the official Toyota narrative. However I am starting to have some serious doubts. There's no way Toyota can maintain their Lexus levels of quality and reliability on the LC with such a short development cycle if they started development only after the LF-LC concept got such great reception. It also makes no sense because historically all Lexus concepts simply preview coming products models, and are usually 'made in reverse', deriving the concepts from the production vehicles themselves. So I have serious doubts about Toyota's official story of the LC development. I think in reality, two things went on here. First off, I think LC development started well before the LF-LC concept even debuted. Secondly, I believe the 5LS team had already done some significant work on the GA-L platform that benefited the LC team.

Combined with the information you've mentioned, I think the 5LS has been in development proper since at least 2010. I think originally early development may have started in 2008 or 2009, but was cancelled or scrapped by Akio Toyoda and development re-started on a more ambitious 5LS around late 2009/early 2010, with the early scrapped development ideas going into the 4LS 2012 refresh. I have for quite a while now firmly believed that 5LS early development started well before 2010, was deemed not good enough by Akio Toyoda, and was then scrapped and development restarted for a more ambitious 5LS, with the leftover scrapped ideas going into that 2012 refresh.

This would fit very well, the timeline of LC development, the idea that the LC was already being developed when the LF-LC concept debuted. It would also match the idea that by the time of the LF-LC debut, some significant development on the GA-L platform had been already done by the 5LS team, which aided the LC team. Finally all of this would tie into the delays that affected the 5LS, leading us to where we are today.

To me, that all makes much more sense than any official Toyota PR narratives or stories.

Wow, what a post! I have to say as well, I cannot believe Toyota's narrative either on the LC. An LC coupe was being rumoured back in 2010, several months after SC430 production ended in July and while the LF-LC was in development (since May). I believe that early work on a production version of the LC had to have been underway in 2011. I remember that Toyota had developed a 3rd generation SC to some degree, eventually scrapping it around 2009-10. What became of that?

Anything LC as a whole, entered development with an advanced design phase at Calty in Newport in May 2010. To make such a decision during a crisis and while the LFA was in pre-production, there was clearly a production basis in place already for the LC in 2010-11. The problem was getting proper engineering behind it, establishing general feasibility, or presenting a good business case for it. Koji Sato has given me the impression that the 950A programme entered engineering-supported development by the end of 2011, some 15-18 months after the LF-LC project started.

The production car was already in development by the time the concept was unveiled in 2012, as Sato gave that away. The new GA-L architecture is very much what held it back, as well as some other things that I can't quite pinpoint right now.

The current LS went into development in the autumn of 2001, a little over a year after the 3rd generation LS began production in mid-2000. By early spring of 2002, the LS430 facelift had been frozen and later introduced in September 2003. By the end of 2003, final styling was decided on. Development started essentially 5 years ahead of launch in September 2006. A 2008 to 2013 development window for the fifth generation was likely on the table in 2007, but canned in 2009-10. One has wonder how the crash during 2008-09 affected early development efforts.

If they started work on a redesign in 2008, by 2010 final styling decisions would be underway. The MY2010 LS was already being shown to insiders in the summer of 2008, as fully built prototypes, being likely set in stone by early 2008. The final LFA design at the time (in mid-2008) had just been frozen, that only photography was shown of it and not a running prototype like the 2010 LS. One has an idea how long the gestation process for a facelift is versus a full model change.

The amount of changes on the MY13 LS were so significant, that 20-24 months was required ahead of October 2012 launch to commit to such major revisions. To even work on proposals for such changes beforehand, would take several months on top of that, stretching things back to late 2009-early 2010. Toyoda made this decision either after his ascension in the summer of 2009 or while dealing with the recall crisis in early 2010. The LC followed closely, but execution of these two has proven to be very difficult. The 950A LC did not take only 4 years to develop, but 6 years total instead. The 200B LS might have taken 7 years minimum by the end of development in 2017.

I may not be able to 100% prove that right now, but with time that will come together in sources and truthful interviews with Lexus personnel. Koji Sato was already (quietly) working on the 950A LC by September 2011, while conducting interviews with people about the newly introduced 4GS on the surface, which he worked on as early as 2007. The styling was probably frozen in June 2014.

The 200B project leader is a mystery, but likely a familiar face from previous Lexus projects. Maybe Haruhiko Tanahashi? LFA ended development, possibly as he took over another big project.

It's been widely observed that the LWB 4LS has more natural proportions than the SWB, so maybe Lexus *has* done that.

It does look nice, but I have not really seen that observed objectively, as it likely didn't happen in that manner. When the current LS went into development in late 2001, it wasn't the plan from the onset to include a long-wheelbase variant in the LS430 replacement. That idea came to fruition circa 2002-2003, shortly before final selections where being made on design proposals and engineering efforts intensifying. Judging by a 2004 photo of a 1:1 clay model MY2007 LS (final post-freeze design), it was in SWB form and very much the initial focus during development, not the LWB.

Not even the W220 and W221 S-Class generations were developed with the LWB in mind, leaving the W222 as the sole example as of late in this class. In reality, the 1995.5/MY96 Chrysler NS minivans (Caravan, Voyager, T&C) were probably the first passenger vehicles to be developed (dr. 1990-1995) with a focus on the extended-length versions, as opposed to the regular length offering. Lexus might be going in this direction, while also offering the SWB in necessary markets.

Mexico continues to become an auto manufacturing powerhouse. Didn't realize Infiniti was building there next.

They had given a press release on this joint-venture plant 2 years ago, but media had pointed it towards building the likes of the Q30 and QX30. I don't like the idea one bit and hope they are prepared to handle it well. I spoke with someone who has access to the production QX50 itself, deep information on it, and gave me a lot more on some other future Infinitis and Nissans. I really wish my contact at Toyota UK had not left, as it would be much easier to know things behind the scenes.

 

[Carmaker1]

I am really surprised that no one caught this article of more LS spy shots.

All-new Lexus LS puts on black dress to hide sleek body

Ignore the retro-flavored headlights and taillights since those are just temporary.
Saying the current LS is getting a bit long in the tooth is perhaps an understatement taking into account the fourth generation (XF40) has been around for a decade, with a couple of facelifts in-between. The good news is Lexus is putting the finishing touches on the all-new model which our spies have caught on camera once again.

It’s hard to say at this point whether the prototype had all the production body panels, but at least we know for sure those headlights (which look as if they were taken from an old Celica) are not final. It’s the same story with the tiny vertical taillights that obviously won’t make it on the production-ready car. The back is actually quite interesting since you can notice the real shape of the taillights behind the black wrap.

Lexus probably locked in the design a couple of years ago seeing as how at the 2015 Tokyo Motor Show it brought an LF-FC conceptserving as a sneak preview of its new flagship. The concept was molded after the production model’s design, so the LF-FC should be an accurate indication of what to expect from the real deal.

Power will come from the 5.0-liter V8 sourced from the LC 500 where it churns 467 horsepower (348 kilowatts) channeled to the wheels via a ten-speed automatic transmission. The aforementioned LF-FC had a “high-output” fuel cell all-wheel-drive setup, so we won’t be too surprised if the new LS (XF50) will get it as well. There’s also going to be a hybrid version that will likely have a 3.5-liter V6 gasoline engine, a four-speed automatic transmission, a lithium-ion battery pack, and a continuously variable transmission incorporating two electric motors as seen in the LC 500h.

Photos of the cabin are not available in this set, but we do know the next-gen LS will have “some cool interior stuff,” according to Lexus International Executive Vice President Mark Templin. That doesn’t sound very explicit, but Toyota’s premium marque has promised a jump in craftsmanship and technology.

Word on the street says Lexus will kick off production in Japan of its new crown jewel in May or June next year following an official reveal likely to occur in January at the North American International Auto Show. It will go on sale in the Land of the Rising Sun in the third quarter of 2017, while in United States it will be available towards the end of the year as 2018MY.

 

[Levi]

Looks like more sleek previous generation Maserati Quattroporte. There is little doubt the LS will be the best looking luxury sedan on the market.

Lexus' new transmission used for the 500h must be one of the smoothest ones ever.

Given the importance of the Lexus LS, I am also eagerly waiting for the next Toyota flagship, that is the Land Cruiser (also Lexus LX). The Land Cruiser is already old, yet just as relevant by how well it is built. In these 10 years, the SUV/Crossover market has drastically changed. SUVs handle well on-road (worse than normal cars because of higher cog and weight), but are almost useless off-road (because of insufficient ground clearance, suspension travel, lack of diff-locks and low range). It is really interesting to see how Toyota will reinvent the Land Cruiser, and how much the basic (utility) and high-end (luxury) versions will differ. Also what engines will be used, will Toyota use the same 4.5l V8 diesel? Will Toyota design the car with armoring in mind and even produce factory armored cars like Mercedes Guard and BMW Security?

I know Toyota Land Cruiser/Lexus LX is off-topic, but it is just as important if not more than the LS.

 

[mikeavelli]

I have to admit I just don't care for spy photos anymore..just bring and sell the car lol....I think there was a time it was cool but it got so over saturated with even companies releasing their own spy photos I don't blink anymore except in rare cases....

Though I have to admit the LS looks rather sleek there..

All I know is the LS is way late and from what I'm hearing the next A8/S8 is also going to be a technological marvel..

 

[Gecko]

All I know is the LS is way late and from what I'm hearing the next A8/S8 is also going to be a technological marvel..

I just can't believe that Audi's next gen Quattro system defaults to FWD until it senses slip from a rear wheel. Shame for a flagship car, but of course, they will get a pass for it.

 

[Madi]

The LS has been spotted again by Motor1.com testing with Audi A8 and BMW 7-Series

 

[Gecko]

So interesting to me that the new LS has yet to be seen testing alongside an S Class.

I could be wrong, but it tells me that Lexus is not so much trying to beat Mercedes with their own formula (as they have tried before, with previous generations of LS), but rather, create the best S Class rival with their own DNA. A8 and 7 Series are much more athletic and much better driving cars than the S Class. If Lexus can benchmark them for driving dynamics and deliver a next generation executive interior, that would be a killer combo, IMO. LS has always had a much nicer, more luxurious interior compared to the Bimmer and Audi, IMO.