2018 LS Master Thread (Debuts 1/9/17 8:30am -2017 NAIAS)

[Ian Schmidt]

Yeah, for me that S-Class door is waaaay too busy. Technology nowadays is supposed to be simple and clean looking, like most smartphones are now, not a forest of buttons and switches like the old Blackberrys. Mercedes should call Braun (where Apple's lead designer Jony Ive famously gets a lot of his minimalist inspiration) and have them sketch up their next interior.

That said, I'm not a huge fan of the LC's doors either (I'd rather see leather than that weird felt-like texture), but at least they look like they were designed post-2011.

And ambient lighting feels like a boyracer gimmick; remember the initial Scion commercials where making the lighting pulse with the stereo was one of their major selling points?

 

[krew]

I am curious as to why you hated the LF-Gh? Was it a lazy, last minute attempt to you? The LF-SA is more like the LF-LC as you said, as well as that of the past 2003 HPX.

Not to go off topic too much, but the LF-Gh was completely thrown together -- it was obviously a reskinned GS, and the design details that were concept-driven were poorly assembled. Not to mention the passenger side door that didn't match the rest of the body:

The LF-FC just might be a preview of the 2021 LS facelift and fuel cell car, which I can excuse Mark Templin's bold-faced lie, when he claimed the LF-FC had NOTHING to do with the next LS and then contradicted himself not too long after that.

I understand the point and relate to the frustration, but this up/down message is an institutional fault at Toyota/Lexus and not limited to Templin. Calling it a bold-faced lie feels a bit dramatic -- I spoke to Templin at the LF-FC debut and it's more of a wink and nod, he knows you can see through his denial and I'm surprised any journalist would bother to report it.

 

[Levi]

Lexus is the only company in the world that has understood that to make a good looking car, you need the right proportions, among which is metal to wheel ratio, something we call low hood line.

I am 99.9% certain the new LS will be the best looking and highest quality car in class.

S Class interior is "rustique", exterior has always been a problem IMO, with their "slug" hood-roof-trunk line, and now additionally a fake anti-wedge design line that ruins the whole Mercedes portfolio.

7 Series interior is just a "luxed"-up 3 Series interior, with metal buttons and fancy bling interior ambient lighting. Exterior is proportionally and stylistically the worst BMW 7 Series ever IMO. Unsophisticated headlight-grill connection, non-stylistic "hockey-stick", high fender to wheel ratio with dropping rounded nose, trunk at a visually lower horizontal level than hood making it look anti-wedge, front-heavy and unbalanced. Adding to that is the unbalanced roof line, that tries to melt in the trunk, making it a "wannabe" A7, IMO the worst invention (A5 Sportback, A7, Panamera) VAG came with, that is also nothing new when you look at the old french cars that had this decades ago (Renualt 20, Renault 25, Renault Safrane, Citröen XM,...). From the BMW Vision Future Luxury, the 7 Series took the worst styling cue, namely the two-type shoulder-line-to-wheel-arch-connection, where at the back there is a crease between the shoulder-line and the arch (sensual looking), and in front it is flat (brute looking). Taillights are BMW generic.

Best thing is that the new 5 Series will be just as bad (it is actually sad), the worst thing being what I would call "double-unconnected shoulder-line".

New A8 will come out soon, but as usual the ugly FWD proportions (which I wish Lexus would also kill in the NX and especially the RX). Exterior is again the same boring thing, but more than that not even good looking. Of course (thought I'm not that sure because I didn't see it), it will have for me the worst Audi design element, the swoopy shoulder line, the slight curve or arc over the wheels (see A5). If the car anyway is boring, why not just a straight line as VW does (see Passat)? Interior, whatever quality just is plastic, with lines and creases all over the place, though layout is clean.

New Panamera is just around the corner. At least this one can do something. Though I dislike almost ever Porsche front for their headlights that give them a frog face, there is not much else to complain about, except of course that is it a Panamera, that means "fat *ss". Especially now hat they whill have a wagon version (shooting break) of the Panamera, could they than have made a Sedan, similar to how Mercedes has the CLS and BMW the & GranCoupe? Dynamically nothing will be able to touch this Porsche, which can be considered a true sports car, now coming with AWD and AWS. Of course this also untouchable financially, if you want a good interior, you have to pay a lot for all the options and customization.

Quattroporte, which was my favorite sedan, with this generation became a total crap. Yes it has a good up-to-date V8 Ferrari engine, but it has no more transaxle gearbox that made it the best balanced sedan, no more that Italian design, now it looks like Korean car, and the interior is disappointing, especially when you compare it to what could have been, looking at the Ferrari GTC4.

Not that I forget the XJ, it should also soon be replaced too. I don't know anything about it. And I'm not much a fan of current one, especially the rear.

As for the LS, it would be really nice for it to come with a supercharged V8 as some thing, AWD and AWS would make it perfect, though it doesn't have to be a sports car, just look dynamic. But unfortunately it will not be that successful here in Europe, as any Lexus, because you know badges are worth more than gold, buyers would pick the badge on sh*t rather than the gold ingot near it.

 

[meth.ix]

But unfortunately it will not be that successful here in Europe, as any Lexus, because you know badges are worth more than gold, buyers would pick the badge on sh*t rather than the gold ingot near it.

True, you could buy the crappy CLA or like a 3-Series and people think you're crazy rich. If you buy an okay car like the Hyundai Genesis, people are always like, "no matter how good it may be, it will always be a Hyundai, not a Mercedes or BMW."

 

[Gecko]

Lexus is the only company in the world that has understood that to make a good looking car, you need the right proportions, among which is metal to wheel ratio, something we call low hood line.

I am 99.9% certain the new LS will be the best looking and highest quality car in class.

S Class interior is "rustique", exterior has always been a problem IMO, with their "slug" hood-roof-trunk line, and now additionally a fake anti-wedge design line that ruins the whole Mercedes portfolio.

7 Series interior is just a "luxed"-up 3 Series interior, with metal buttons and fancy bling interior ambient lighting. Exterior is proportionally and stylistically the worst BMW 7 Series ever IMO. Unsophisticated headlight-grill connection, non-stylistic "hockey-stick", high fender to wheel ratio with dropping rounded nose, trunk at a visually lower horizontal level than hood making it look anti-wedge, front-heavy and unbalanced. Adding to that is the unbalanced roof line, that tries to melt in the trunk, making it a "wannabe" A7, IMO the worst invention (A5 Sportback, A7, Panamera) VAG came with, that is also nothing new when you look at the old french cars that had this decades ago (Renualt 20, Renault 25, Renault Safrane, Citröen XM,...). From the BMW Vision Future Luxury, the 7 Series took the worst styling cue, namely the two-type shoulder-line-to-wheel-arch-connection, where at the back there is a crease between the shoulder-line and the arch (sensual looking), and in front it is flat (brute looking). Taillights are BMW generic.

Best thing is that the new 5 Series will be just as bad (it is actually sad), the worst thing being what I would call "double-unconnected shoulder-line".

New A8 will come out soon, but as usual the ugly FWD proportions (which I wish Lexus would also kill in the NX and especially the RX). Exterior is again the same boring thing, but more than that not even good looking. Of course (thought I'm not that sure because I didn't see it), it will have for me the worst Audi design element, the swoopy shoulder line, the slight curve or arc over the wheels (see A5). If the car anyway is boring, why not just a straight line as VW does (see Passat)? Interior, whatever quality just is plastic, with lines and creases all over the place, though layout is clean.

New Panamera is just around the corner. At least this one can do something. Though I dislike almost ever Porsche front for their headlights that give them a frog face, there is not much else to complain about, except of course that is it a Panamera, that means "fat *ss". Especially now hat they whill have a wagon version (shooting break) of the Panamera, could they than have made a Sedan, similar to how Mercedes has the CLS and BMW the & GranCoupe? Dynamically nothing will be able to touch this Porsche, which can be considered a true sports car, now coming with AWD and AWS. Of course this also untouchable financially, if you want a good interior, you have to pay a lot for all the options and customization.

Quattroporte, which was my favorite sedan, with this generation became a total crap. Yes it has a good up-to-date V8 Ferrari engine, but it has no more transaxle gearbox that made it the best balanced sedan, no more that Italian design, now it looks like Korean car, and the interior is disappointing, especially when you compare it to what could have been, looking at the Ferrari GTC4.

Not that I forget the XJ, it should also soon be replaced too. I don't know anything about it. And I'm not much a fan of current one, especially the rear.

As for the LS, it would be really nice for it to come with a supercharged V8 as some thing, AWD and AWS would make it perfect, though it doesn't have to be a sports car, just look dynamic. But unfortunately it will not be that successful here in Europe, as any Lexus, because you know badges are worth more than gold, buyers would pick the badge on sh*t rather than the gold ingot near it.

Great post and I largely agree with a lot of your opinions.

While the S Class is a force to be reckoned with in this segment, the interior of the current generation just doesn't do it for me, mostly because there are so many interior elements that I dislike - Crown Vic inspired steering wheel, lack of a gated shifter, circular air vents, etc.

The 7 Series is - and has been - an "also ran" car in this segment. I just don't think the BMW formula works well in this class... people want wood, opulence, outright luxury. I want to say the car could offer best in class performance, but it's grown to be so large and heavy that it's hard to give it that title, especially in the face of competitors like the Model S, Panamera and Quattroporte. I also think the omission of an M7 and weird inclusion of the Alpina B7 doesn't help either.

It's funny to me that you brought up the curved line that Audi seems to favor over the fenders on some of their cars. With designs that are otherwise wrought with hard edges and creases, like you mention, those curves over the wheel arches look completely out of place... like they were added as an afterthought. I still think the D3 A8 is one of the most beautiful flagship designs ever - mostly because while squared off, the design is simple and pure, and it's before Audi decided to start adding unnecessary curves.

As your post outlines, the "reality" in the flagship class is very different than it was the last time Lexus engineered a flagship car. Panamera, Quattroporte and Model S have become true competitors here, just as much as the S Class. The next LS needs to look, drive and feel the part in a competitive set that has changed drastically over the last decade. Lexus has to hit the ground running from launch with class leading powertrains, reasonably low weight, a well engineered platform, good weight distribution and then an entire suite of technologies that will at least rival the S Class and 7 Series. I think they can do it... but it's just going to take a leap frog of anything they've done before.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

True, you could buy the crappy CLA or like a 3-Series and people think you're crazy rich. If you bu an okay car like the Hyundai Genesis, people are always like, "no matter how good it may be, it will always be a Hyundai, not a Mercedes or BMW."

This is one of the things Lexus did right immediately at launch. If they'd sold the LS as a Toyota first and then later changed the badge like they did for JDM it wouldn't have worked in the US for exactly that reason. It's possible now that things have changed and Hyundai will get away with it, but they need their own styling first. The Equus looks like an LS that someone slapped M-B front and rear ends on, and the Genesis sedan looks like a BMW with an Audi grille.

 

[meth.ix]

This is one of the things Lexus did right immediately at launch. If they'd sold the LS as a Toyota first and then later changed the badge like they did for JDM it wouldn't have worked in the US for exactly that reason. It's possible now that things have changed and Hyundai will get away with it, but they need their own styling first. The Equus looks like an LS that someone slapped M-B front and rear ends on, and the Genesis sedan looks like a BMW with an Audi grille.

And the Genesis (brand) front ends and the regular Hyundai grilles are way too similar.

 

[CIF]

A supercharger would be great, and very unexpected. However there is the problem that Lexus already has one turbo engine. Also supercharged engines would contradict rumors that Lexus is working on more turbo engines. Supercharged engines would be a change of direction for Lexus.

Personally I prefer superchargers. They give you almost all of the benefits of turbos, but lack almost all of the drawbacks of turbos. Superchargers still maintain linear throttle response, and no lag, so direct response, plus supercharged engines sound much better than turbo engines the vast majority of the time. The only possible drawback is slightly increased fuel use, but plenty of turbo engines in real-world conditions also get poor fuel economy.

It's too difficult to say what kind of forced induction the LS mule is running. Definitely some kind though. I'd personally love to see Lexus change direction and go with supercharging rather than turbocharging. In a perfect world, I'd also love to see Lexus quickly move away from that 2.0L turbo engine, as many people, including myself, believe it's not fitting for Lexus (except in a small number of overseas markets where taxes on engine size, displacement, and emissions are very severe). Even with all the best technologies one can think of, a 4 cylinder turbo engine still fundamentally remains a 4 cylinder engine. Once you own and experience excellent 6 cylinder and above engines, you simply don't want to go back to a 4 cylinder. IMHO there's nothing luxurious about a 4 cylinder.

 

[Gecko]

Here we go!

Most of the Lexus line-up has been updated with the company's unique design language. Whether you love it or hate it, most of the company's cars are impossible to confuse for something else. But during this time of transformation, the flagship LS sedan has lingered with a very mild, sedate shape. These spy photos show the LS has gone under the knife.

That being said, we can't really say how different the LS is going to look for sure because Lexus has employed some impressive camouflage. If we didn't know better we'd say it looks like the LS is going retro with round reflector headlights and some rear tailfins. But we do know better, so don't look for those features to make it to the production model.

What we can make out is the lower half of the Lexus "spindle" grille. The camouflage wrapping is pressed up against a trapezoidal shape at the front reminiscent of what we've seen on other Lexus models. It looks like a large version of it as well. This Lexus seems to still be quite long, and based on where the rear passenger is in the photos, it still seems to have loads of space for rear passengers. It's difficult to tell if this is a long wheelbase model or a standard one, but if it is long wheelbase, it's proportioned quite nicely. It looks like there will be quite a large C-pillar on this LS too.

Our spy photographer expects this car to be revealed next year as a 2018 model available with a V8 and possibly a hydrogen powertrain. So if you want one of the last low-key LS models, you'll want to get the current version because its days are numbered.

Source: http://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/27/lexus-flagship-spotted-testing-in-the-desert/#slide-4001569

 

[krew]

krew

The spy shots show off a streamlined new body shape and some wacky taillights.

View the original article post

 

[meth.ix]

Here we go!

Most of the Lexus line-up has been updated with the company's unique design language. Whether you love it or hate it, most of the company's cars are impossible to confuse for something else. But during this time of transformation, the flagship LS sedan has lingered with a very mild, sedate shape. These spy photos show the LS has gone under the knife.

That being said, we can't really say how different the LS is going to look for sure because Lexus has employed some impressive camouflage. If we didn't know better we'd say it looks like the LS is going retro with round reflector headlights and some rear tailfins. But we do know better, so don't look for those features to make it to the production model.

What we can make out is the lower half of the Lexus "spindle" grille. The camouflage wrapping is pressed up against a trapezoidal shape at the front reminiscent of what we've seen on other Lexus models. It looks like a large version of it as well. This Lexus seems to still be quite long, and based on where the rear passenger is in the photos, it still seems to have loads of space for rear passengers. It's difficult to tell if this is a long wheelbase model or a standard one, but if it is long wheelbase, it's proportioned quite nicely. It looks like there will be quite a large C-pillar on this LS too.

Our spy photographer expects this car to be revealed next year as a 2018 model available with a V8 and possibly a hydrogen powertrain. So if you want one of the last low-key LS models, you'll want to get the current version because its days are numbered.

Source: http://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/27/lexus-flagship-spotted-testing-in-the-desert/#slide-4001569

The side profile' s overall shape is beautiful and it's size seems to be longer which is good so it's wheelbase will be closer to it's competition than last generation where it was much closer to the A6 than the A8. I'm so excited!!!

 

[Carmaker1]

Here we go!

Most of the Lexus line-up has been updated with the company's unique design language. Whether you love it or hate it, most of the company's cars are impossible to confuse for something else. But during this time of transformation, the flagship LS sedan has lingered with a very mild, sedate shape. These spy photos show the LS has gone under the knife.

That being said, we can't really say how different the LS is going to look for sure because Lexus has employed some impressive camouflage. If we didn't know better we'd say it looks like the LS is going retro with round reflector headlights and some rear tailfins. But we do know better, so don't look for those features to make it to the production model.

What we can make out is the lower half of the Lexus "spindle" grille. The camouflage wrapping is pressed up against a trapezoidal shape at the front reminiscent of what we've seen on other Lexus models. It looks like a large version of it as well. This Lexus seems to still be quite long, and based on where the rear passenger is in the photos, it still seems to have loads of space for rear passengers. It's difficult to tell if this is a long wheelbase model or a standard one, but if it is long wheelbase, it's proportioned quite nicely. It looks like there will be quite a large C-pillar on this LS too.

Our spy photographer expects this car to be revealed next year as a 2018 model available with a V8 and possibly a hydrogen powertrain. So if you want one of the last low-key LS models, you'll want to get the current version because its days are numbered.

Source: http://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/27/lexus-flagship-spotted-testing-in-the-desert/#slide-4001569

Finally! It has been many years since one has been to see what Asia is capable of in terms of delivering ultimate luxury. It seems also that I turned out to be right regarding late July for the first spy shots, as Lexus seems favour the last week of July for leaking prototypes. For example, the RC-F and LC500.



This prototype is very reminiscent of the rendering I uploaded from my Mag X subscription in May.

I had said so many times this car was due in 2017, in spite of dubious (eye-rolling) alternate theories. Finally, this has been confirmed for us.

The LS will not be as radical as the LF-FC nor was influenced by it, as the concept was developed as a super-5LS vision after production styling was finalised. Stupid Autoblog and/or another site keep calling the LF-FC flagship concept incorrectly the LF-LC. They can't even get it right ever. As someone that works in product development, it is very obvious with lead times in this industry, that certain lazily spun out theories from all these journalists are so misleading and inaccurate.

It has taken a long time, but it is coming. Not because Toyota waited to show the LF-FC and LC, then decided to develop a new LS a few months ago. This car has been underway for quite awhile and they knew what it looked like two summers ago. I wish these writers would do so much better work, than just make stupid guesses with no real logic behind it. If this was a German brand, they wouldn't make these mistakes.

The rear looks like it has similar contours from the LF-FC, especially since the concept further toned up the pre-existing 5LS design cues.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

From what little the camo reveals, I like the low front fender / hood line. In fact, it reminds me of the Maserati Quattroporte V (the one before the current one), IMHO one of the most beautiful sedans of the 21st century,

The arrowhead window shape in the trailing edge of the rear door / C-pillar area kicks up less and is straighter in the new 5LS than in its predecessor, much like the change in this area from 2IS to 3IS.

Like the Autoblog writer, I'm having a hard time figuring out whether this is the short wheelbase or long wheelbase version. Or will Lexus do like what Cadillac will allegedly do with its ATS and CTS successors (CT3 and CT5?) and use a single, in-between wheelbase? Thoughts and comments?

Finally, are those dummy, stand-up taillights cribbed from a 1st-gen Scion xB?

 

[Levi]

I am certain the LS will be the best looking car in class. I already mentioned how incoherent and how many mistakes the other cars in this class have, it is just shameful. And of course the LS will be the best looking and best proportioned long wheel base vehicle, because it is clear Lexus designs the LS around the long wheel base version, not like the Germans around the short wheel base version and then cheaply extend the rear door which dis-balances the car.

From what little the camo reveals, I like the low front fender / hood line. In fact, it reminds me of the Maserati Quattroporte V (the one before the current one), IMHO one of the most beautiful sedans of the 21st century.[/B]

+1

I also think the Last generation Quattroporte was the best looking sedan. And the low front fender wheel ratio that Lexus has come up with on the LC and the new LS is the best design feature in the car industry. German cars (so as all other) get that so wrong (because of crash requirements) and are not even trying. That gives a car wrong unbalanced proportion, that cannot be corrected even with huge rims. It seems like only the Japanese can get that right (Lexus LFA, Honda S2000, Toyota MR-2, Nissan Silvia, etc...).

 

[automovista]

I wouldn't be surprised if the next-generation LS bears a strong stylistic resemblance to the LC, which IMO is not a bad thing at all. The silhouette of the hood in these pictures certainly lends itself to that supposition. It would be an excellent move in terms of market positioning for Lexus to draw a link between the two cars as well, a la the Mercedes S-class and S-class coupe.

 

[automovista]

So it's two years away.
The LS is gonna get murdered in the market until then, with the new S and 7 out there, and Cadillac starting to venture into the field from below.

One thing I think Lexus will do is do away with the traditional rearview mirror.
I think a camera projection will appear on the top of the windshield.
They may do away with side mirrors too for cameras.
Just a hunch.
BD

Unless they can persuade federal regulators in the US to suddenly legalize cameras in lieu of sideview mirrors (which isn't outside the realm of possibility...look at Cadillac's new rearview mirror), that probably won't happen. We're hopelessly archaic in that regard, and I would sooner have laser or LED matrix headlights that are already available in Europe.

 

[krew]

Like the Autoblog writer, I'm having a hard time figuring out whether this is the short wheelbase or long wheelbase version. Or will Lexus do like what Cadillac will allegedly do with its ATS and CTS successors (CT3 and CT5?) and use a single, in-between wheelbase? Thoughts and comments?

No insider info on this, but I have to think Lexus abandons the SWB/LWB -- it's not going to sell in volume anyway, so why complicate things? Also gives Lexus a chance to elevate the GS a bit.

I wonder too, maybe Lexus uses the LC as a template for the LS -- two engines, no F SPORT, then a LS F a couple years later.

 

[krew]

Finally! It has been many years since one has been to see what Asia is capable of in terms of delivering ultimate luxury. It seems also that I turned out to be right regarding late July for the first spy shots, as Lexus seems favour the last week of July for leaking prototypes. For example, the RC-F and LC500.

You were dead on. That's so awesome -- do you have a spreadsheet to keep track, or just an amazing memory?

 

[maiaramdan]

i feel the next GS will be in the length of the first generation GS the S-140 with around 4950 mm or 194.9 inches which will make it Toyota Crown TWIN
which will make the IS between 4.6 to 4.75 which from my view the same length as Toyota Mark-X as also IS TWIN
now the Majesta as the LS & the Century all the 3 due for next year
the only confirmed thing about the Century is the dropping of the V12 5.0L
the only confirmed thing about the Majesta is the more separation from the other Crowns (Athlete & Royal), it will return as before the current 6th generation Majesta which tends to be just a long lengthened Crown Royal

 

[CIF]

Finally! Great to see the 5LS in production body form. It's amazing how many years we've been waiting to see such prototypes. This confirms that the production model will debut soon.

Heavy camouflage is a given. Those retro decoy headlights and taillights are a nice touch. Combined with the heavy black camo, they really throw off the styling details at the 4 corners of the vehicle.

No insider info on this, but I have to think Lexus abandons the SWB/LWB -- it's not going to sell in volume anyway, so why complicate things? Also gives Lexus a chance to elevate the GS a bit.

I wonder too, maybe Lexus uses the LC as a template for the LS -- two engines, no F SPORT, then a LS F a couple years later.

That would be odd I think. LWB doesn't sell extremely well in North America. It does in overseas markets. You have to consider the LS is a world model, so different variants suited for different markets.

This is the prestige luxury segment. I think choice should be paramount. As in, more choice and customization, not less.

No F Sport I also believe would be a bad idea.

Look at all the variants, wheelbases, etc. for the S Class.

I think at least 3 powertrain options for the regular 5LS would work. Gas, hybrid, hydrogen, plus an LS F. Even better if they offer two different gas engines, plus hybrid, hydrogen, and LS F.