16th Generation Toyota Crown (Sedan, Cross, Sport, Estate/Signia)

[Will1991]

If the ES replaces the LS, do we lose the entry-level sedan? That would be unfortunate. Or could we have a wider range of ES trims and models, from entry-level to powerful and luxurious?

On the widening of the range, I agree we should get an ES 500h, in addition to an ES 450h+ PHEV, seeing that the Crown will soon get a PHEV model.

I don't think we're going to loose the entry-level sedan.

I think it's going to be:

ES350h to remain as entry level sedan
ES450h+ for those looking for the PHV experience
ES500h with a top trim to touch the LS buyer that still wants a sedan (nowadays it seems they all went the SUV route).

Just look at the Crown, it almost doubles in price from entry to top.

If we do I hope it's not ES500h FSP like the RX. It should just be ES500h standard with an optional F Sport handling for more sporty driving. 367hp in an ES would be amazing.

From now to then they might see the 500h powertrain in a different, more common view, being able to be a luxury or a sportier offer.

 

[Motor]

 

[bogglo]

The ES cannot replace the LS that is for sure. However it is definitely going to command an higher price moving forward for the higher trim. Lexus made that possible a long time ago when the GS was discontinued. Now the ES is about to have loads of trim and options. Combine the NX and RX trim and you should have an idea what to expect. next ES will add 500 to its line up and next LS will add 600 to its name.

 

[Levi]

The ES cannot replace the LS that is for sure. However it is definitely going to command an higher price moving forward for the higher trim. Lexus made that possible a long time ago when the GS was discontinued. Now the ES is about to have loads of trim and options. Combine the NX and RX trim and you should have an idea what to expect. next ES will add 500 to its line up and next LS will add 600 to its name.

So buyers got ripped. The opted for ES over GS because it was cheaper and had more space, now the GS is gone they pay GS price for their ES. But that leaves place for IS, no?


Accountants are only able to understand percentages, but do not get that a small percentage can still be a large number in itself. See iphone mini.

 

[JustADude]

So buyers got ripped. The opted for ES over GS because it was cheaper and had more space, now the GS is gone they pay GS price for their ES. But that leaves place for IS, no?


Accountants are only able to understand percentages, but do not get that a small percentage can still be a large number in itself. See iphone mini.

The IS is a big ? mark right now. We saw that they showed a compact ev sedan that would be an IS, and now Toyota has said their ev stuff needs to be better. We also hear that IS would be on the same platform as the LFR along with many other cars. Either way the IS will have a hefty price tag, that would still be more than the ES imo

 

[bogglo]

So buyers got ripped. The opted for ES over GS because it was cheaper and had more space, now the GS is gone they pay GS price for their ES. But that leaves place for IS, no?


Accountants are only able to understand percentages, but do not get that a small percentage can still be a large number in itself. See iphone mini.

I wont say buyers got ripped. The traditional ES buyer will still be catered too. However the abandoned GS owner might find one of the ES trims as a good replacement for their GS. A good sign of that is the introduction of the handling package in the 2023 ES.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

View attachment 6423

The Crown is as expensive as the Lexus ES (in the USA) -- or even more expensive in the case of the Crown Platinum with Hybrid Max -- yet the ES has the much better interior (and more aspirational badge).

What is Toyota thinking?

Does this mean that Lexus will be raising prices of the ES?

Crown has a WAY superior powertrain. Put that powertrain into the ES and you'll get into the mid-60's easily.

As much as I prefer straight-up RWD products and am not a fan of the Crown in a lot of ways, I'd still take the Crown. That power unit is badass.

 

[Sulu]

Crown has a WAY superior powertrain. Put that powertrain into the ES and you'll get into the mid-60's easily.

As much as I prefer straight-up RWD products and am not a fan of the Crown in a lot of ways, I'd still take the Crown. That power unit is badass.

I take it that you mean the Hybrid Max powertrain in the Crown Platinum. The hybrid powertrain in the Crown XLE and Crown Limited is essentially the same powertrain already in the Camry Hybrid and ES 300h.

But the point is that even with the better-quality, roomier interior in the ES, the top-level trim is cheaper than a Toyota.

The Crown is expensive!

 

[spwolf]

I will have to wait to sit in a Crown to see, but the Avalon interior was shockingly nice and very high quality for the pricepoint. I don't like the swooping pop up screen design, but the door panels and dash had a lot of nice detailing that felt very Lexus-like, high quality and extremely solid.

sure, because it was designed in US and they wanted flashy.

Lexus does not really do flashy though, at best you will have some ugly wood wiener there on the door.
Crown has leather covered doors.

It is very Japanese.

Previous Crown Majesta had leather doors, nothing flashy at all, maybe just options for two color interior were flashy, and those are available in Japan even for new Crown.

This is just old school Lexus luxury, as it once was.

 

[spwolf]

I take it that you mean the Hybrid Max powertrain in the Crown Platinum. The hybrid powertrain in the Crown XLE and Crown Limited is essentially the same powertrain already in the Camry Hybrid and ES 300h.

But the point is that even with the better-quality, roomier interior in the ES, the top-level trim is cheaper than a Toyota.

The Crown is expensive!

Crown is about 4k-7k cheaper than Lexus, if you discard 500h powertrain in Crown, and compare 300h vs 300h.

For me, nice part is that ES500h will get even nicer version of that powertrain, hopefully from RX.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I take it that you mean the Hybrid Max powertrain in the Crown Platinum.

Yup.

 

[spwolf]

Offical EPA is 41 combined for base, and 30 MPG for Hybrid Max, which is 3 and 2 MPG increase from their estimates.

Good numbers.

 

[Motor]

2025 Toyota Crown | Toyota.com

Push the boundaries with the new 2025 Toyota Crown. Featuring sophisticated design, modern technology and high-end performance the Toyota Crown is daringly innovative.

www.toyota.com

Starting MSRP $39,950

Platinum HYBRID MAX MSRP $52,350…for the RX 500h lite.

 

[Levi]

The main question: is the Crown Hybrid Max faster than the GS 450h mk3 or than the Crown mk15 with 8GR-FXS?

 

[bogglo]

The main question: is the Crown Hybrid Max faster than the GS 450h mk3 or than the Crown mk15 with 8GR-FXS?

Good question I totally forgot about the GS 450h.

 

[JustADude]

GS was around mid 5s even for the 450h and I'd say slightly quicker for hybrid max around 5.4s 5.3s or so, judging that RX500h can do 5.7s. S15 hybrid was easily under 5. Redline review got 5.5s for new crown. Same as GS, would get dusted by old V6 hybrid crown tho

 

[Levi]

GS was around mid 5s even for the 450h and I'd say slightly quicker for hybrid max around 5.4s 5.3s or so, judging that RX500h can do 5.7s. S15 hybrid was easily under 5. Redline review got 5.5s for new crown. Same as GS, would get dusted by old V6 hybrid crown tho

Which GS? I am talking about third gen GS 450h, which was faster than fourth gen GS 450h. As for the Crown fifteenth generation, @ssun30 posted a video once of it doing 0-100 under 5 seconds.

This video too, and 0-180km/h in 13 seconds. That is stupid fast for "old" tech.

 

[ssun30]

Both the 450h and 500h longitudinal systems are much much more efficient than this Hybrid Max/transverse 500h powertrain. That's why I said it's a downgrade and unnecessary "innovation".

 

[Levi]

Both the 450h and 500h longitudinal systems are much much more efficient than this Hybrid Max/transverse 500h powertrain. That's why I said it's a downgrade and unnecessary "innovation".

Media prefers butt feeling than facts.

What is the Crown sedan going to get then? It will be a real downgrade if it is slower and less efficient. Even if it is slightly faster, is it worth the slightly worse fuel efficiency?

 

[JustADude]

Crown sedan leaves so much excitement that can lead to so much disappointment. V6 hybrid isn't moving forward obviously. Idk about T24 hybrid cuz turbo 4 in that Crown sedan might not cut it.