Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[AceVL]

I have a friend that works for an automotive company that provides turbocharger parts to companies globally. Since I’m a Lexus Enthusiast (see what i did there) I’ve been bugging him about what he knows. All he mentioned is that he has seen a 2.4T and a 3.5TT
So hopefully this comes true. I’d love to see a 4.0TT

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

First of all, I would like to welcome you to the Lexus Enthusiast forums!!

Now, in regards to the engines, care to indulge us more about the 2.4T? There has also been rumors from magazines (MagX in specific) and insiders about the 2.4 liter turbocharged engine. If you can reveal any more details about this, that would be splendid.

 

[AceVL]

First of all, I would like to welcome you to the Lexus Enthusiast forums!!

Now, in regards to the engines, care to indulge us more about the 2.4T? There has also been rumors from magazines (MagX in specific) and insiders about the 2.4 liter turbocharged engine. If you can reveal any more details about this, that would be splendid.

So I asked for more details and all he told me is that the part would be sent to facilities in the USA And Japan. So it seems it would be on both Lexus and Toyota models. The majority of the V6 is for the US while a much smaller one is for Japan. Same goes for the 2.4T

 

[carguy420]

So I asked for more details and all he told me is that the part would be sent to facilities in the USA And Japan. So it seems it would be on both Lexus and Toyota models. The majority of the V6 is for the US while a much smaller one is for Japan. Same goes for the 2.4T

The 2.4T is an inline 4, right?
And what do you mean by "a much smaller one is for Japan"? A smaller TT V6?

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

And what do you mean by "a much smaller one is for Japan"? A smaller TT V6?

The way I understood AceVL's comment, he was talking about the market share/sales volume for V6s. Most of them are sold in the U.S., with a smaller number of sales for Japan. In Europe, V6 sales are even lower, given the dominance of 4-cylinder hybrid powertrains there.

 

[AceVL]

The way I understood AceVL's comment, he was talking about the market share/sales volume for V6s. Most of them are sold in the U.S., with a smaller number of sales for Japan. In Europe, V6 sales are even lower, given the dominance of 4-cylinder hybrid powertrains there.

Exactly. Sorry I should have been more clear. The volume/market share was higher for the US than than for Japan. Which makes it seem that it will be used in Toyota and Lexus models that are made in the US.

And yes the 2.4T is an in-line at it only uses one of the components versus two for the 3.5TT

 

[carguy420]

The way I understood AceVL's comment, he was talking about the market share/sales volume for V6s. Most of them are sold in the U.S., with a smaller number of sales for Japan. In Europe, V6 sales are even lower, given the dominance of 4-cylinder hybrid powertrains there.

Exactly. Sorry I should have been more clear. The volume/market share was higher for the US than than for Japan. Which makes it seem that it will be used in Toyota and Lexus models that are made in the US.

And yes the 2.4T is an in-line at it only uses one of the components versus two for the 3.5TT

Thanks for clearing things up!

 

[ssun30]

The performance specs of the hypothetical 2.4/2.5T is pretty easy to predict. The only question is what new design elements are used to improve the NVH so it can be a convincing replacement for the 2GR.

 

[spwolf]

The performance specs of the hypothetical 2.4/2.5T is pretty easy to predict. The only question is what new design elements are used to improve the NVH so it can be a convincing replacement for the 2GR.

not so sure it will replace 2GR... it will likely be an offering for markets that currently dont get V6 at all.

 

[Gecko]

not so sure it will replace 2GR... it will likely be an offering for markets that currently dont get V6 at all.

Hoping this is true.

 

[spwolf]

Hoping this is true.

i dont think their target audience likes downsizing in the US and other markets never had V6 or it was very fringe.

Now another thing is that it is likely cheaper to use V6 than 2.4l Turbo.

 

[TheNerdyPotato]

i dont think their target audience likes downsizing in the US

Word. Us Americans like big, smooth engines with lots of cylinders.

Now another thing is that it is likely cheaper to use V6 than 2.4l Turbo.

That's an interesting question, along with other issues such as weight and packaging once you figure in the extra parts required for the turbo. It turns out that the 2018 IS300 RWD (2.0t) weighs in at 3,583lb (1625kg) The IS350 (2GR) weighs only 11lb (5kg) more. I'd assume that the new powertrains would be similar in weight, though switching to GA-L will change the overall weight considerably.

 

[Gecko]

In North America, V6 is going to be most important for 4Runner, Tacoma, Highlander, Sienna, base Tundra, RX, GX... passenger cars are probably going to get it just to share costs, at least maybe for one more generation. I can see a good turbocharged 4 cylinder being fine in Camry, Avalon and ES, but those shopping for heavier vehicles that can tow and haul will certainly be looking for a V6.

Still to this day, 2GR-FKS is such a good engine that it's hard to beat for N/A reliability, smoothness, MPG and power. We are months away from 300HP V6 with Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD on ES/Camry/Avalon. Hard to argue with that for day-to-day driving, even for enthusiasts.

The only cars that are really asking for more than 300hp are heavy 4Runner, Tacoma, RX and GX.

 

[spwolf]

In North America, V6 is going to be most important for 4Runner, Tacoma, Highlander, Sienna, base Tundra, RX, GX... passenger cars are probably going to get it just to share costs, at least maybe for one more generation. I can see a good turbocharged 4 cylinder being fine in Camry, Avalon and ES, but those shopping for heavier vehicles that can tow and haul will certainly be looking for a V6.

Still to this day, 2GR-FKS is such a good engine that it's hard to beat for N/A reliability, smoothness, MPG and power. We are months away from 300HP V6 with Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD on ES/Camry/Avalon. Hard to argue with that for day-to-day driving, even for enthusiasts.

The only cars that are really asking for more than 300hp are heavy 4Runner, Tacoma, RX and GX.

there is no reason for 4cly turbo to replace V6 in TMC sedans unless there is big upside to the MPG or Performance, which there isnt.

It is another story in other markets where more city driving, different taxes and fuel economy standards might prefer 4cly turbo.

 

[carguy420]

there is no reason for 4cly turbo to replace V6 in TMC sedans unless there is big upside to the MPG or Performance, which there isnt.

It is another story in other markets where more city driving, different taxes and fuel economy standards might prefer 4cly turbo.

I prefer TMC to further improve the 2GR, if it's possible. (Or a V6 replacement for the 2GR)

Is downsizing from a V6 to a turbocharged 4 cylinder really effective in terms of improving fuel economy and reduce CO2 emissions? Because the answers I found are all over the place.

 

[TheNerdyPotato]

In North America, V6 is going to be most important for 4Runner, Tacoma, Highlander, Sienna, base Tundra, RX, GX...

The Tundra dropped the 1GR V6 base engine several years ago. Also, has the GX ever featured a V6 engine in NA? I'm not against a new, spiffier, more efficient engine, but I do question the logic of including these 2 vehicles in this list.

I prefer TMC to further improve the 2GR, if it's possible. (Or a V6 replacement for the 2GR)

Is downsizing from a V6 to a turbocharged 4 cylinder really effective in terms of improving fuel economy and reduce CO2 emissions? Because the answers I found are all over the place.

I've found much the same. Most of the time I see only marginal improvements at best by downsizing. Another thing is that turbos seem to be more dependent on driving style and environmental conditions (traffic, terrain, weather, etc...) than NA motors, with the exception of high elevation and thin air.

 

[spwolf]

The Tundra dropped the 1GR V6 base engine several years ago. Also, has the GX ever featured a V6 engine in NA? I'm not against a new, spiffier, more efficient engine, but I do question the logic of including these 2 vehicles in this list.

i think he is referring to the leaked info where next LC is powered by V6tt and that is likely going to go into Tundra as well as LX.

 

[Gecko]

The Tundra dropped the 1GR V6 base engine several years ago. Also, has the GX ever featured a V6 engine in NA? I'm not against a new, spiffier, more efficient engine, but I do question the logic of including these 2 vehicles in this list.

V6 Tundra was dropped because it was just too weak and the 4.6L V8 was only a little more expensive. In the GX, that V8 is only adequate but quite old now and in need of an update. It makes less power than modern V6s.

If there was a newer turbo/twin turbo/naturally aspirated 6 cylinder that made in the neighborhood of 350hp and 370lb-ft of torque, it would be a great replacement for the 4.6L V8 in Tundra and GX, as well as a solid option in the 4Runner and RX. Also quite frankly ES, RC, IS and maybe LF-1 too.

 

[ssun30]

Is downsizing from a V6 to a turbocharged 4 cylinder really effective in terms of improving fuel economy and reduce CO2 emissions? Because the answers I found are all over the place.

From my own experience the answer is exactly 'all over the place'.

I'm currently on a 7000km road trip driving a Volvo XC60. Over 2 tons fully loaded and a 248hp 2.0T. This downsized motor is brutally efficient on highway where I average 5.5L/100km cruising at 100kph. On the other hand in city where there's a ton of acceleration and deceleration it averages over 15L/100km (I turn off start-stop because it's a PITA)

My ES350 averaged 8L/100km but in city it's much less punished at 11L/100km.

So the point is, downsized motors are incredibly efficient during steady-state operation, but get punished heavily when there's a lot of uneven work load. That's why they get an unfair advantage in NEDC or JC08 testing, where the work load is very uniform, unlike the highly erratic EPA cycle.

In the end it depends on your driving style. A hypermiler will get more from a downsized engine but for enthusiasts with lead feet there's very limited gains. For trucks turbocharged is always better, but only when it can be as durable as a large understressed NA engine (which is the question mark with turbos on trucks).

 

[ssun30]

V6 Tundra was dropped because it was just too weak and the 4.6L V8 was only a little more expensive. In the GX, that V8 is only adequate but quite old now and in need of an update. It makes less power than modern V6s.

If there was a newer turbo/twin turbo/naturally aspirated 6 cylinder that made in the neighborhood of 350hp and 370lb-ft of torque, it would be a great replacement for the 4.6L V8 in Tundra and GX, as well as a solid option in the 4Runner and RX. Also quite frankly ES, RC, IS and maybe LF-1 too.

A detuned V35A-FTS gets the job done, mirroring what Ford does with the 3.5 EcoBoost. Less specific power means less boost, less lag, and less stress: sounds like a fine idea.