2018 LS Master Thread (Debuts 1/9/17 8:30am -2017 NAIAS)

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Black Dynamite

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I find it significant that the LS350 name has not been registered for the West. I agree with Mercedes' market strategy, that outside of the hybrid, the flagship goes V8 only. The LS should use that strategy. The 7-series has a four-banger hybrid and two V6 models starting at $81k, and can still only sell 1k units a month in the U.S., while the S-Class still easily outsells it starting at over $96k. So the volume/value angle is not working for BMW.

Lexus should treat the LS like a true flagship. No SWB, no V6, and start pricing near $90k. Make a small value play against the S-Class, but not be afraid to stand up to it based on product, styling and performance.

I believe that Lexus can sell 1500-2000 LS500 units per month in the U.S., consistently, if the rumors about its looks and power are true.
BD
 

Lexus Cohen

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I find it significant that the LS350 name has not been registered for the West. I agree with Mercedes' market strategy, that outside of the hybrid, the flagship goes V8 only. The LS should use that strategy. The 7-series has a four-banger hybrid and two V6 models starting at $81k, and can still only sell 1k units a month in the U.S., while the S-Class still easily outsells it starting at over $96k. So the volume/value angle is not working for BMW.

Lexus should treat the LS like a true flagship. No SWB, no V6, and start pricing near $90k. Make a small value play against the S-Class, but not be afraid to stand up to it based on product, styling and performance.

I believe that Lexus can sell 1500-2000 LS500 units per month in the U.S., consistently, if the rumors about its looks and power are true.
BD
I totally agree with everything you said here!
 

meth.ix

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Here's the number one thing I want from the 5LS: GRAND LOOKS. A problem with the 4LS was that it had the size and interior of a full-sized luxury car, but the exterior did not really tell you much about that other than the badge. It just looked like a large family sedan. It did not look like an executive, luxury car at all. The best example of what I want is the S-Class. Look at that thing!
2015_mercedes_benz_s_class_sideview.jpg
The first time you look at it, you think one word: limo. It has beautiful chrome in the right places without overdoing it. It has a nice hood ornament to top it all off. Oh, and unlike the other cars in the lineup, the S-Class has a unique, grand-looking GRILLE. Lexus needs to make the grille on the 5LS different from the GS.
2016_lexus_gs_200t-pic-4303806918281840999-640x480.jpeg
The thick horizontal slats give it too much of a sporty look which is not top-priority in this vehicle. The ES is a bit better but the best grille that should be used in the 5LS should be the 3.0IS non-F Sport grille. It looks simple and normal while looking grand as well.
2015-lexus-is-250-4-door-sport-sedan-auto-rwd-front-exterior-view_100481372_l.jpg

It makes it less obvious that there is a big spindle grille when there are no slats on the bottom half and I don't think that any other spindle grilles work on the LS. But of course the slats should be chrome not black.
 

Carmaker1

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I find it significant that the LS350 name has not been registered for the West. I agree with Mercedes' market strategy, that outside of the hybrid, the flagship goes V8 only. The LS should use that strategy. The 7-series has a four-banger hybrid and two V6 models starting at $81k, and can still only sell 1k units a month in the U.S., while the S-Class still easily outsells it starting at over $96k. So the volume/value angle is not working for BMW.

Lexus should treat the LS like a true flagship. No SWB, no V6, and start pricing near $90k. Make a small value play against the S-Class, but not be afraid to stand up to it based on product, styling and performance.

I believe that Lexus can sell 1500-2000 LS500 units per month in the U.S., consistently, if the rumors about its looks and power are true.
BD

Not sure what you're exactly talking about, considering that BMW have NEVER used V6 engines. There is a difference between inline six-cylinder engines and that of V6s. I really don't believe I can truly consider Australia and New Zealand as geographically part of "the West", other than being extensions of the former British Empire. Not really a good descriptor for non-JDM markets and in general a rather dated term anyway. Other than that, I can't say I disagree. They need to take it upmarket, even if the 3.0 twin-turbo 6 and new V8 engines have yet to surface.

No one seems to have truly mastered the idea offering significantly more, at the same exact base price as top competitors. A standout, highly equipped base LS500 at that $85-90k USD may be ambitious, but executable. I have to believe they are serious about this car being innovative, even if so many unfair criticisms are already being levied against the LC, especially by users of another Lexus forum, that believe the LC500 is not near worth $100k USD.

Hopefully regarding the LC, it was only due to weight considerations and moderately rushed development. Besides the GA-L, there are hardly any standout innovations brought to the table by the LC. The LS cannot be the same story or I will dismiss Toyota as a whole.
 

Black Dynamite

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Not sure what you're exactly talking about, considering that BMW have NEVER used V6 engines. There is a difference between inline six-cylinder engines and that of V6s. I really don't believe I can truly consider Australia and New Zealand as geographically part of "the West", other than being extensions of the former British Empire. Not really a good descriptor for non-JDM markets and in general a rather dated term anyway. Other than that, I can't say I disagree. They need to take it upmarket, even if the 3.0 twin-turbo 6 and new V8 engines have yet to surface.

No one seems to have truly mastered the idea offering significantly more, at the same exact base price as top competitors. A standout, highly equipped base LS500 at that $85-90k USD may be ambitious, but executable. I have to believe they are serious about this car being innovative, even if so many unfair criticisms are already being levied against the LC, especially by users of another Lexus forum, that believe the LC500 is not near worth $100k USD.

Hopefully regarding the LC, it was only due to weight considerations and moderately rushed development. Besides the GA-L, there are hardly any standout innovations brought to the table by the LC. The LS cannot be the same story or I will dismiss Toyota as a whole.

Didn't say, or imply, a loaded LS500 would be $90. That is a the right base price. Buyers in this market will pay $110-120 for a loaded flagship, and the new Lexus LS should be no different.

Regarding these mysterious trolls attacking the LC, you must think them worthy of discussion, or else you shouldn't bring them up. The inteiror of the LC alone is worth of its price tag, and it looks to have ana agility and sportiness that is a cut above the class norm, if not at Porsche 911 levels.
BD
 

Carmaker1

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So interesting to me that the new LS has yet to be seen testing alongside an S Class.

I could be wrong, but it tells me that Lexus is not so much trying to beat Mercedes with their own formula (as they have tried before, with previous generations of LS), but rather, create the best S Class rival with their own DNA. A8 and 7 Series are much more athletic and much better driving cars than the S Class. If Lexus can benchmark them for driving dynamics and deliver a next generation executive interior, that would be a killer combo, IMO. LS has always had a much nicer, more luxurious interior compared to the Bimmer and Audi, IMO.

Back in January/February 2014, a BMW insider (due to BMW-Toyota collaboration) reported that there were many W222 S-Classes in LHD and RHD JP-spec, parked at the R&D facilities at Toyota Technical Centre Aichi.

About 6 months after that, the final design for the 5LS was likely set and development took a different trajectory from there on out. That fall, they had shown the car (physically) to Lexus personnel in the UK. Toyota has by now exhausted benchmarking the S-Class and likely bought their first set of S-Classes at the end of 2013 or in January 2014, when the first JP-spec W222s were imported to Japan.

Unlike their developmental woes back in 2001-05, where they were blindsided by a heavily improved competitor in the W221 and had to rely on the outgoing inferior W220 as a benchmark, they wisely decided to attack MB mid-cycle and give them 2 years to know about new BMW's 7er, as well as the new Panamera.

So, I would say that a couple of carefully orchestrated spy shots of the LS testing alongside import-spec lesser German competitors in the U.S., far away from Japan HQ, is not really indicative of them not benchmarking the S-Class. My question is, why have they gone of their way to not be seen benchmarking the S-Class? There is plenty of road testing being done, somehow missing the eye of the many lenses out there.

Japanese companies often take advantage of nocturnal public testing, which if these "spy photographers" got up and looked around at night, they'd likely catch many more of them prototype testing. A past report I came across, once highlighted this reality, where a Japanese test engineer explained their reasoning for testing solely at night, except in regards to hot weather testing.

On another note, for them to be making such claims of desiring "sportiness", why have I not seen any Lexus models testing on the Nürburgring since the LC500 last year nor any LS spy shots in Europe to date, especially on Deutschland's Autobahn? They need to ensure that the car is able to be as composed as an S-Class is on unrestricted sections of the Autobahn.

I have never been inside a late model LS on the Autobahn, but I have heard that it did not did compare favourably to 7er and S-Class at extremely high speed. Point is, regarding the Ring at least, there is no escaping being caught testing there and one needs to see something soon from Lexus.

They've caught the LFA, 4GS, 3IS, RC-F, and LC500 testing there, why hasn't seen LS spy shots there then? Isn't it supposed to be the best that this company offers? The car that can do it all? That is what the S-Class is supposed to be, so that is what the LS should be and even more for your money.

Holy crap, 13 pages in 1 thread! That's got to be a record on this site!

If I really think about it, it is not surprising. On another site, the longest were for the current generation S-Class which required 3-4 threads and an entire reformatting of the forum to consolidate the total posts in 1-2 threads.

Auto journalists may think everyone wants to drive compact sports cars, wagons, or crossovers, but people are very curious about this class of vehicle or the accompanying 2-door variants (in the case of the LC). The flagships very much tell the future in terms of many things.

so is it 2GR-FKS or 2GR-FSE or another new engine ???
it's suppose that batch of new engines will appear with the new chassis or i am wrong ???

Something odd is happening with Toyota trademarks. I know what was the case with the RC300 AWD and IS300 AWD, but the latest RX300, GS300, NX300, LS350, and GX400 trademarks raise concerns for me. Is there a possible incoming change in nomenclature?

For one, it is very possible and the most educated guesstimate is that the 2GR-FKS will be implanted into the LS350 in Japan. Between the camouflaged mule spotted in Colorado and the late 2014 5LS prototype equipped with a 3.0 TTV6 (that wore a finished body), I am not sure what to think.

There have been a few rumours from Japan of that same 3.0 litre V6 turbo, so what is going on? Are they taking a new approach to nomenclature, that echoes that of the hybrid nomenclature, but dropping the "t" at the end?

The smaller engine option is good news indeed. Wish it were an LS300t trademark instead though. Considering the underwhelming power to weight ratio in the RC350, what are your opinions on this aspect of an LS350?

I for one cannot understand the lack of LS300t trademark, let alone any 300t trademarks from Toyota. For a 3.0 litre TTV6 being in discussion for years, something has terribly gone wrong with development, probably in the realm of reliability testing.

My first reaction for an LS 350 is not positive as the 10 year old 2GR-FSE comes to mind. Ok for an IS, less so for a GS, not so for an LS.

The 2GR-FSE was unveiled nearly 12 years ago, so it's more than a decade old already. The MZ V6 introduced in August/September 1993. It was truly replaced in 2003-05 with the 2GR, 3GR, & 4GR, only with some other models keeping the 2GR until 2006-07, based on impending redesign cycles or briefly retained as a less risk solution with the venture into V6 hybrids via the Highlander/Kluger Hybrid and RX400h. Mitsuoka was last to retire the MZ, but it doesn't count in case anyone uses that as an argument for the GR not being old.

They need to introduce a replacement next year for sure, as that is 12-13 years already.

Didn't say, or imply, a loaded LS500 would be $90. That is a the right base price. Buyers in this market will pay $110-120 for a loaded flagship, and the new Lexus LS should be no different.

Regarding these mysterious trolls attacking the LC, you must think them worthy of discussion, or else you shouldn't bring them up. The inteiror of the LC alone is worth of its price tag, and it looks to have ana agility and sportiness that is a cut above the class norm, if not at Porsche 911 levels.
BD

You never implied that, but made a good point in regards to market offerings in the form of V8 and hybrid-only lineup. I do not see why they should offer a V6 stateside, but the argument for one is also a good one as well.

You can tell yourself those individuals are trolls, but that might be a bit subjective. They really are not trolls, if one studies the source of the commentary, which is what baffles me. They are longtime CL users that can one make the argument are being unnecessarily difficult and picky, claiming that the LC cannot truly even compete with C217 S Coupe.

So yes, their comments might be worthy of concern in being Lexus owners, especially those that are current generation LS owners and possibly one of them (IIRC), an LFA owner. On a side note, I do not consider myself specifically a Lexus enthusiast, but someone that as an all encompassing automotive enthusiast (that also works in this industry) that greatly respects the brand and looks forward to its future.

I am very impartial and unbiased, so I do not like playing favourites, even with companies that I am professionally involved with. I go out of my way to avoid comparing or referencing such brands with Toyota/Lexus.

Back on topic, CIF already expressed genuine concern regarding the interior of the LC being devoid of certain ultra-luxury accoutrements, seen in the S Coupe and other high-end competitors. The worse part of that on the performance end, is BMW will be redesigning the 6-Series in 2018 and S coupe will be updated late next year, all with new engines. The LC has been delayed until May, so it narrows the lead the LC may have over primary competition. One hopes by early next year, these concerns about the LC500 can be put temporarily put to rest and a new V8 engine arrives by MY2020.

The LS500 has a chance to stand tall in North America next to the S550 facelift in the largest market, if it is massively innovative and stylish. BMW has already delivered and left some unimpressed as seen by sales, even if my mother happily buys every generation of 7er. Audi has never been a serious contender outside of Europe and China, so the next A8 isn't much of a concern. Other competitors are not yet ready time wise (Jaguar, Infiniti) or not quite competitive (Genesis, Cadillac, Acura) in this class.
 
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Carmaker1

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I noticed weeks ago, that on the U.S. website, that the LS hybrid has been discontinued for the 2017 model year, after a 9 year run from 2007 to 2016. They really dropped the ball on that car and should've at least given it serious attention in 2012 with the Spindle Grille facelift. This rendering I provided from Mag X is definitely the car for sure, as looking at front end at the same angle gives that away strongly.
2018-lexus-ls-spy-photos.jpg

731150e2-s.jpg

phpajzolv.jpg

The LS is possibly going to take after the LC and abandon a vertical slat grille, in favour of a mesh-only grille design. This might be the start of a new Lexus design language, which trickles down from the LS. We'll have to see if my theory holds true or is inaccurate.

This rendering provided by that Russian site, ACTUALLY bears some credibility at the rear sans the C-Pillar. The front rendering is atrocious (so I didn't post it), as well as their envisage of the C-pillar. The boot/trunk portion is rather interesting though, in regards to taillight design.

16-08-18-lexus-ls-next-gen-rear.jpg

2018-lexus-ls-to-arrive-at-dealers-in-may-2017_9.jpg


These are spy photos that car photographer Yeng found weeks ago and provided to U.S. publication TFL. I waited and waited to see if anyone would post it, but no one has. As usual below, the media cannot get the concept's name right, which is LF-FC, not LF-LC and also the fact, I doubt we will have to wait another 1 year to hear about this car.
Lexus-GS-test-car-3.jpg

The 2018 Lexus LS was spotted in heavy camouflage doing high-altitude testing in the mountains around Vail, Colorado by TFL reader Yeng. While this model is certainly quite early on in its development process, a few design cues can be seen underneath all the plastic, revealing what appears to be a relatively exciting design by Lexus standards.

Certainly the 2018 Lexus LS will have some familiar features from the LF-LC Concept. Already you can begin to make out the shape of Lexus’ trademark grill, seen on most of their current models. The hood definitely has a very robust, and pronounced shape that gives the car a very commanding look. As for power, expect the 2018 Lexus LS to feature a large V8 with the smooth but strong power that captured Nathan’s heart in the 2017 Lexus GS. It is likely that we will also see some hybrid variation of the LS, although we don’t know too much at this juncture.

Being a direct competitor to the S-Class, it should be no surprise to see the new 2018 Lexus LS feature a plethora of technological functionalities, possibly including some semi-autonomous driving capabilities. Although, all of this is completely speculation and we really have no clue what entirely is in store for the 2018 Lexus LS.

Being a 2018 model, we don’t expect Lexus to reveal the 2018 LS until late in 2017. So until then, we are left with these spy photos to speculate what might be with the 2018 Lexus LS.
http://www.tflcar.com/2016/09/2018-lexus-ls-spotted-testing-in-the-mountains-news/
Lexus-GS-test-car.jpg

Lexus-GS-test-car-2.jpg


On the flip side, Mercedes has introduced two generations of S Class over the life of the 4LS. Mercedes can stay evolutionary and be ahead of the curve. At this point, the LS is going to have to be revolutionary to catch the S Class because it's already so painfully far behind.

Do I think they can do it? Yes, but just to catch the S Class is going to be one thing. To leapfrog it is going to be quite another, and if we're being completely honest, innovation hasn't exactly been Lexus' strong suit the last decade or so.

With a refresh on the books for 2018, S Class will be all new in 2020 probably. LS will only be 2 years old at that time, facing a brand new S Class. Yikes...

I really have great respect for your very in-depth posts, as this is what has concerned me in regards to the S-Class. Development of the current W222 S-Class started in 2006, originally timed for a late 2012 release. The car was delayed until mid-2013 at the 11th hour in 2012 and they have been working on the next generation model for 2 years now.

When the 5LS goes on sale, MB will not only launch the mid-cycle W222 facelift, but will also sign-off on final styling of the W222 replacement in time for its 2020 debut and commence the production development phase. Considering that the W222 was evolutionary as you also said, the W223, W230, or W300 will be revolutionary towards the end of 2020.

Toyota has truly had 10 years to respond and deliver, so there will be no excuses in terms of innovation. They have the capital, so being stingy and too cautious to introduce trend-setting marvels is not going to cut it nor waiting until the fuel cell/mid-cycle to do so. Usually a wait and see approach is taken after launch of a new generation, before formal planning and development starts for a successor, so they've had since 2007-08.

The LS will likely be facelifted in 2020, when the next S-Class debuts. However knowing MB, they could push it back and debut it at Geneva in March 2021, instead of Paris 2020. The 5LS might get a 7-8 year life-cycle (2017-2024/25), with the 2020 refresh, and lighter second refresh in 2022 (a la 2IS 2010-13).

Current old Lexus LS, is not far behind IMO. It is best looking car in class and remains reliable and of good quality. S Class is not as solid as they once were.

That is a subjective opinion of yours, which unfortunately cannot be proven objectively, when it is outsold and eclipsed by the W222 S-Class by a wide margin and doesn't even surpass the ill-received G11/G12 7er sales. The reliability is easy to achieve, when much of the car was designed 12-13 years ago. UR engine prototypes had been built by 2003 and began development as early as 1999. The LS was a fabulous product back in 2006-09, after it had just debuted. Now it is just an "okay" offering, especially compared to the S500/S550. It is inferior now, outside of reliability. That's okay, because they have redesigned it and are ready to replace it next year, so that many current LS owners can upgrade if they desire to.

Claiming, "S Class is not as solid as they once were", isn't what I'd call an obscure statement, as the W126 of 1979-1991 was less complex anyway and of course was not built with the later competition in mind. By comparison, the W222 S-Class is a huge bargain compared to the W126 and W140 (1991-1998) of yesteryear, while more advanced than them by a long shot.

To be honest, all I seem to see is rather questionable detractions against German brands by you nowadays, which I understand why you feel that way (you counteract lopsided Eurocentric bias amongst non-German luxury brands). As someone that has involved with a company often derided by German-Italian car fans, I share part of your viewpoint.
 
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Carmaker1

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If it has a turbo, it would be "350t".

It should be that, but there's a disconnect somewhere here. Toyota could be indeed altering the nomenclature since 2014-15, as the last trademark ending "t" was filed in May 2014. Since then, all Toyota trademarks for Lexus branded products have not ended in "t". Bear in mind many power train decisions are made years in advance and that finalised well before trademarks are filed.

I would like to say I agree. I can't imagine them putting the 3.5 into the LS. I mean it's in the IS. They need a new 3.5 if they are putting it into the LS here in the US or turbo it.

The only other person that publicly stated the existence of a 3.0 litre twin turbo V6 from an inside source, is rayaans in late 2014. Since we have not seen any trademarks with "t" at the end since May 2014, all other trademarks filed in 2015-16 have been devoid of the "t" suffix. Possibly these new trademarks of "300" and "350" are for turbo engines or even naturally aspirated 2GR replacements, to be used as a base for turbo power plants.

we will see
we are nearly 4 month to NAIAS and i think everything will be known by then

We really need to be seeing some more LS spy shots for that reason, especially in Europe. Not to be smug, but I am the first source of theory that the LS will debut NAIAS in 2017. It is a theory I adopted in May 2015, which many people rejected as realistic, due to past expectations of a 2017 MY redesign. I have not been given credit for that theory outside of Lexus Enthusiast, primarily by news outlets that copied krew's story from May on the MAG-X LS rendering I bought and provided solely to this forum.

Unlike that of the LC coupe NAIAS 2016 tidbit dropping upon January 2015 debut of the GS-F, I tried to trace back where I had gotten the theory for the 5LS NAIAS debut and discovered I'm the original source, which is rather uncomfortable, since I am not wholeheartedly a Toyota insider. Is there a small chance Lexus will push back a debut to Geneva in March 2017 or even the New York International Auto Show in late March or early April 2017? Waiting until Frankfurt or Tokyo 2017 would be a colossal joke, which shouldn't even be theorized.

MAG-X never stated that the LS will debut at NAIAS 2017, yet many media sources lied and said otherwise. It was in reality myself and a few of us on this site that have been stating that the past 16 months, then they lazily copied krew's article word-for-word this past May to incorrectly list Mag X as the source. It truly took 1 year for everyone else to fully catch up and smell the roses, in realizing a 2016 debut for the 5LS was not in the cards. I only made an educated guess, based on Lexus tradition, they would debut it in Detroit, as they did in Jan 1989, Jan 1995 (2LS was unveiled in Nov. 1994), Jan 2000, and Jan 2006.
 
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meth.ix

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I noticed weeks ago, that on the U.S. website, that the LS hybrid has been discontinued for the 2017 model year, after a 9 year run from 2007 to 2016. They really dropped the ball on that car and should've at least given it serious attention in 2012 with the Spindle Grille facelift. This rendering I provided from Mag X is definitely the car for sure, as looking at front end at the same angle gives that away strongly.
2018-lexus-ls-spy-photos.jpg

731150e2-s.jpg

phpajzolv.jpg

The LS is possibly going to take after the LC and abandon a vertical slat grille, in favour of a mesh-only grille design. This might be the start of a new Lexus design language, which trickles down from the LS. We'll have to see if my theory holds true or is inaccurate.

This rendering provided by that Russian site, ACTUALLY bears some credibility at the rear sans the C-Pillar. The front rendering is atrocious (so I didn't post it), as well as their envisage of the C-pillar. The boot/trunk portion is rather interesting though, in regards to taillight design.

16-08-18-lexus-ls-next-gen-rear.jpg

2018-lexus-ls-to-arrive-at-dealers-in-may-2017_9.jpg


These are spy photos that car photographer Yeng found weeks ago and provided to U.S. publication TFL. I waited and waited to see if anyone would post it, but no one has. As usual below, the media cannot get the concept's name right, which is LF-FC, not LF-LC and also the fact, I doubt we will have to wait another 1 year to hear about this car.
Lexus-GS-test-car-3.jpg


http://www.tflcar.com/2016/09/2018-lexus-ls-spotted-testing-in-the-mountains-news/
Lexus-GS-test-car.jpg

Lexus-GS-test-car-2.jpg




I really have great respect for your very in-depth posts, as this is what has concerned me in regards to the S-Class. Development of the current W222 S-Class started in 2006, originally timed for a late 2012 release. The car was delayed until mid-2013 at the 11th hour in 2012 and they have been working on the next generation model for 2 years now.

When the 5LS goes on sale, MB will not only launch the mid-cycle W222 facelift, but will also sign-off on final styling of the W222 replacement in time for its 2020 debut and commence the production development phase. Considering that the W222 was evolutionary as you also said, the W223, W230, or W300 will be revolutionary towards the end of 2020.

Toyota has truly had 10 years to respond and deliver, so there will be no excuses in terms of innovation. They have the capital, so being stingy and too cautious to introduce trend-setting marvels is not going to cut it nor waiting until the fuel cell/mid-cycle to do so. Usually a wait and see approach is taken after launch of a new generation, before formal planning and development starts for a successor, so they've had since 2007-08.

The LS will likely be facelifted in 2020, when the next S-Class debuts. However knowing MB, they could push it back and debut it at Geneva in March 2021, instead of Paris 2020. The 5LS might get a 7-8 year life-cycle (2017-2024/25), with the 2020 refresh, and lighter second refresh in 2022 (a la 2IS 2010-13).



That is a subjective opinion of yours, which unfortunately cannot be proven objectively, when it is outsold and eclipsed by the W222 S-Class by a wide margin and doesn't even surpass the ill-received G11/G12 7er sales. The reliability is easy to achieve, when much of the car was designed 12-13 years ago. UR engine prototypes had been built by 2003 and began development as early as 1999. The LS was a fabulous product back in 2006-09, after it had just debuted. Now it is just an "okay" offering, especially compared to the S500/S550. It is inferior now, outside of reliability. That's okay, because they have redesigned it and are ready to replace it next year, so that many current LS owners can upgrade if they desire to.

Claiming, "S Class is not as solid as they once were", isn't what I'd call an obscure statement, as the W126 of 1979-1991 was less complex anyway and of course was not built with the later competition in mind. By comparison, the W222 S-Class is a huge bargain compared to the W126 and W140 (1991-1998) of yesteryear, while more advanced than them by a long shot.

To be honest, all I seem to see is rather questionable detractions against German brands by you nowadays, which I understand why you feel that way (counteracts lopsided Eurocentric bias amongst non-German luxury brands). As someone that has involved with a company often derided by German-Italian car fans, I share part of your viewpoint.
Holy... you're right! That rendering is probably 100% accurate! I really hope that the Russian rear rendering is accurate as well except for the thick C-Pillar I do think that it may also be somewhat accurate because the parts of the taillights that go into the trunk are clearly visible on the prototype and but they stick out from the trunk more than the rendering. Also, the small vent connected with the taillights in the rendering may be what we are seeing in the camouflaged prototype, but it may also just be from the taillights used to hide the shape of the tailights.
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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...I tried (to) trace back where I had gotten the theory for the 5LS NAIAS debut and discovered I'm the original source, which is rather uncomfortable, since I am not wholeheartedly a Toyota insider. Is there a small chance Lexus will pushback a debut to Geneva in March 2017 or even the New York International Auto Show in late March or early April 2017? Waiting until Frankfurt or Tokyo 2017 would be a colossal joke, which shouldn't even be theorized...

I only made an educated guess, based on Lexus tradition, they would debut it in Detroit, as they did in Jan 1989, Jan 1995 (2LS was unveiled in Nov. 1994), Jan 2000, and Jan 2006.
Kudos for your intelligent sleuthing and detective work.

Indeed, there is a strong tradition of Detroit world debuts for the LS line, but, with Lexus' semi-recent trend of spreading out the auto show debuts of sundry engine, powertrain and even F Sport variants throughout the world, i think that 5LS will follow the LC playbook from last year and debut the non-hybrid V8 500 at Detroit in January and the hybrid V6 500h at Geneva in March. New York? Probably earmarked for the RX L.
 

maiaramdan

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will really Lexus unveil the LS in next NAIAS???
we are around 3 months away and nothing appear from them until now !!!!!!
 
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New rendering from Best Car!
IMG_1328.JPG

The striking similarity between this and the one from mag-x below adds credibility to mag-x rendering. Now the styling of 5LS is almost confirmed!
IMG_1327.JPG

In the article, it is said that 5LS may debut at LA Auto Show in November 2016 at the earliest, or at NAIAS in 2017 at the latest.
 

maiaramdan

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after the hype
is there anyone know japanese to translate for us what's written , why they putting RR & Maybach photos ?
and the dimensions will be
5225*1900 L*W
they also keep talking specifically about the 3L - V6 and it's fuel consumption
and that it will be RWD & 4WD
 
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after the hype
is there anyone know japanese to translate for us what's written , why they putting RR & Maybach photos ?
and the dimensions will be
5225*1900 L*W
they also keep talking specifically about the 3L - V6 and it's fuel consumption
and that it will be RWD & 4WD

The article refers to Rolls Royce and Maybach as "super luxury" and says that although the debut of 5LS will a new chapter for Japanese luxury car, Japanese car manufacturers will still be unable to enter into "super luxury" segment.

And your guess on this article is largely correct. It says:

・the dimensions will be
5225/1900/>3000 L/W/WB

・the engine options will be 3.5 liter V6 hybrid and 3.0 liter turbo at the launch and fuel cell model will be added about a year afterward

・the fuel consumption of 3.5 liter hybrid 4WD will be 16.2km/l which is 40% improvement over 4LS hybrid's 11.6km/l, and RWD version of hybrid is targeting 18.6km/l

・sales will begin in autumn next year with a price tag starting from around 10 million yen (about $100k) (, which is rather a big jump from 4LS which starts from around 8.5 million yen)

mirrorless version will be standard! and physical mirrors will be an option!! (which I think is very unlikely. Indeed Japanese safety standards on vehicles was revised recently to allow mirrorless cars, but it will only be applied to the vehicles produced from June 2019)
 
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maiaramdan

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The article refers to Rolls Royce and Maybach as "super luxury" and says that although the debut of 5LS will a new chapter for Japanese luxury car, Japanese car manufacturers will still be unable to enter into "super luxury" segment.

And your guess on this article is largely correct. It says:

・the dimension will be
5225/1900/>3000 L/W/WB

・the engine option will be 3.5 liter V6 hybrid and 3.0 liter turbo on the launch and fuel cell model will be added about a year afterward

・the fuel consumption of 3.5 liter hybrid 4WD will be 16.2km/l which is 40% improvement over 4LS hybrid's 11.6km/l, and RWD version of hybrid is targeting 18.6km/l

・sales will begin in autumn next year with a price tag starting from 10 million yen (about $100k)

・mirrorless version will be standard! and physical mirrors will be an option!! (which I think is very unlikely. Indeed the safety standard on vehicle in Japan was revised recently to allow mirrorless cars, it will be applied to cars produced from June 2019)

thanks a lot
so the 3.5l hybrid is the same unit in the LC500
and the totally new 3.0l v6 unit

so they didn't talk at all about the 5.0l v8 which is also standard in LC and found in the current F cars "RC & GS"
is this means they will ditch the V8 in some markets !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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if it will looks anything like the blue one
i will go to pay the preorder tomorrow to lexus kiev until it come
I don't like the rear; it reminds me of Hyundai Sonata. Overall, I think it looks much cheaper than the other flagship sedan. Compared with the S-class it has no presence and not elegant at all.
 

maiaramdan

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honestly i can tell you only 1 thing
if this beautiful rendering is just 2d computer sketching
so the real 3d photo will makes you think again
 

meth.ix

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I so
I don't like the rear; it reminds me of Hyundai Sonata. Overall, I think it looks much cheaper than the other flagship sedan. Compared with the S-class it has no presence and not elegant at all.
I somewhat agree. It doesn't really look as grand as the S-Class. But it looks as grand as the 7-Series and the A8.
 
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