Lexus ES: Sixth GenerationUSA

Lexus Aims for 50k ES Sedan Sales Per Year in USA

Lexus ES 300h

Lexus has high hopes that the new 2019 Lexus ES will appeal to a wider range of buyers with the release of the first-ever ES 350 F SPORT — here’s how the difference in demographics was presented during the sedan’s launch in Nashville last month:

Lexus ES Demographics

(As for the ES 300h buyers, Lexus expects them to follow the typical hybrid buyer, with a higher education level and a higher income.)

Together, all three ES variants will sell an estimated 50,000 units per year in the USA. This number is well below the five-year average of 64k, and signals a belief at Lexus that car sales will not rebound in the near future.

Another interesting detail is the split between the standard ES, ES F SPORT, and ES hybrid:

Lexus ES Variant Breakdown

Here’s a video for those interested in watching the full presentation from Lexus USA vice-president of marketing Cooper Ericksen:

Comments
S
Levi
And yet Porsche 718 and 911 get away with this.
True. The Porsche 718 and 911 offer MacPherson struts. I don't like it that it does either. However - the Porsche 718/911 is built differently. Its built so that the disadvantages of the MacPherson doesn't really affect it. We can't say the same about the Lexus ES - you still feel the disadvantages of the MacPherson.

Its how some people say "FWD doesn't stuck at handling because of the Civic Type R." Well - the Type R is built differently compared to other FWD cars.

In your example of the Porsche - we are comparing Apple to Oranges.
Sakura
True. The Porsche 718 and 911 offer MacPherson struts. I don't like it that it does either. However - the Porsche 718/911 is built differently. Its built so that the disadvantages of the MacPherson doesn't really affect it. We can't say the same about the Lexus ES - you still feel the disadvantages of the MacPherson.

Its how some people say "FWD doesn't stuck at handling because of the Civic Type R." Well - the Type R is built differently compared to other FWD cars.

In your example of the Porsche - we are comparing Apple to Oranges.
Porsche's could have twigs for a suspension and they likely would still be considered one of the best driving cars around lol.
mikeavelli
Porsche's could have twigs for a suspension and they likely would still be considered one of the best driving cars around lol.
Run of the mill Porsches are way overrated. Are they cool cars to own? Yes. Are they cool cars to drive? Yes. Are they anything more special in driving experience than other small sports cars? Not really. To this day original Boxster remains the crappiest two seater I've ever driven.

I'm not sure why people expect from ES to be anything more than ES that has always been. Sure all those GS replacements cancelation rumors have put the new ES in a though spot but it's still your grandpa's favorite land yacht.
Porsche uses struts for better packaging. There's not enough weight in the front to justify a more complex layout. They still make expensive struts out of forged alloy so they are not cheaping out.
It's hard to define what car enthusiasts are. So it can be said that the M5 is not an enthusiast's car. Most of its buyers are similar to the regular luxury buyer, namely successful family in their 50s, but with more budget to spare and more risk taking personalities.
mediumhot
Run of the mill Porsches are way overrated. Are they cool cars to own? Yes. Are they cool cars to drive? Yes. Are they anything more special in driving experience than other small sports cars? Not really. To this day original Boxster remains the crappiest two seater I've ever driven.
If I went by the gushing media articles alone, I'd say that opinion is nuts. By my brief, limited personal experience, I totally see your point and even tend to agree.

For the past 4 or 5 years, I've been a member of SAMA (Southern Automotive Media Association) and, as such, I've been one of the judges of their Topless in Miami event. This is, basically, a day-long drive-and-compare event of whatever convertible and sunroof vehicles the carmakers deign to bring down. In its 2017 iteration, the "High Performance" category consisted of the Porsche 718 Boxster S versus the Jaguar F-Type SVR. It was a no-contest blowout win by the Jaguar, which also got the overall "Convertible of the Year" title. I remember being totally disappointed and underwhelmed by the Boxster, especially its engine sound, which sounded way more like an old, rear-engined VW Beetle with an EMPI aftermarket exhaust (the 60s equivalent of today's Honda Civics with fart can/coffee can aftermarket exhausts) than anything worthy of its price tag. Hopefully, the older, flat-6 Boxsters are more worthy of the hoopla, but the flat-4 718 was a huge disappointment.
S
mediumhot
I'm not sure why people expect from ES to be anything more than ES that has always been. Sure all those GS replacements cancelation rumors have put the new ES in a though spot but it's still your grandpa's favorite land yacht.
Definitely agreed! I'm not sure why people expect so much from the ES either. There is so much rumors floating around, especially on CL (secret CL forum reader here), that the ES will have AWD or a new more powerful turbo or V6 engine. It feels like quite a bit of people are predicting a ES F-Sport with AWD and Turbo/high-powered V6.

I feel like majority of this hope or expectation comes from the GS axing rumors. I have seen comments expecting an ES-F, which is insane - no one will probably buy that. But its too hopeful and optimistic to think the ES will ever be a replacement for the GS/GS-F. Like you said - the ES will still be that typical land yacht that the older generations love. They need to make it that way to cater to their mass core demographics of buyers; if they didn't, sales would drop.
R
Great review. Can you talk about the new Lane Tracing Assist(LTA)? How it compares vs propilot, autopilot, etc?
Sakura
Like you said - the ES will still be that typical land yacht that the older generations love.
I dont get which review out of 500 posted, including one by @krew, made you think that ES is still a boat.

I have read and viewed at least 50 reviews, probably more, and I have yet to see a single one that says that ES handles like old generation, like a boat.

krew
I don't want to hype up the ES F SPORT as this grand performance car, but it's serviceable when looking for an engaging drive -- I think most people on this site will be pleasantly surprised by its ability. And as the person that started Lexus Enthusiast, I would buy an ES F SPORT in a second. :D
......
I don't think he meant "land yacht" in the handling sense, but rather in the "big and roomy and plush" sense. No ES ever made has handled as badly as the Detroit big iron that phrase was originally coined for.
reposado
Great review. Can you talk about the new Lane Tracing Assist(LTA)? How it compares vs propilot, autopilot, etc?
Welcome to Lexus Enthusiast, reposado!

LTA isn't a full on self-driving system, it's comparable to Nissan's ProPilot where it will simply attempt to stay in one lane (including around curves and stuff, of course). If I understand correctly it's a bit more robust than the Nissan system in that it can follow a car ahead of you in cases where the road markings are unreadable or unclear but it's otherwise similar.
R
  • R
    RAL
  • June 16, 2018
Welcome aboard! @reposado
Ian Schmidt
I don't think he meant "land yacht" in the handling sense, but rather in the "big and roomy and plush" sense. No ES ever made has handled as badly as the Detroit big iron that phrase was originally coined for.
If you read older ES review, it was certainly almost always called boaty... which new one is not.

Actually, I am pretty sure new ES, especially F-Sport will easily handle better than my 2009 IS... but hey, I am driving ethusiasts RWD while ES drivers are driving a boat :)
I like driving the boat. XV40 best boat.
I used to only desire the F-Sports for the aggressive looking front fascia but now that the non-F-sports looking just as aggressive with the LS and the ES but mixed with some of that Lexus elegance, I actually prefer those more and of course the luxury interiors are lightyears ahead of the F-Sport no option interiors.
L
Just out of curiosity what can you not get on an F-sport other than leather and wood trim? I was leaning towards the luxury package on a regular ES but the circuit red in the F-sport is growing on me. I’m now curious about the draw backs of the sport package compared to the luxury/ultra luxury package.
S
spwolf
I dont get which review out of 500 posted, including one by @krew, made you think that ES is still a boat.

I have read and viewed at least 50 reviews, probably more, and I have yet to see a single one that says that ES handles like old generation, like a boat.
......
Ian Schmidt
I don't think he meant "land yacht" in the handling sense, but rather in the "big and roomy and plush" sense. No ES ever made has handled as badly as the Detroit big iron that phrase was originally coined for.
Thanks Ian! That is exactly what I meant. I didn't mean it in a "handling" sense. It was just merely a slang for it being a big - comfy car. I didn't say it handles like a land yacht - I just said it was a land yacht. Lol.

Besides - I do agree. The 2018 Toyota Camry XSE and the 2019 Lexus ES handles better than their predecessors did. But that doesn't mean its some handling-king that you put on the mountain roads.

lsu5508
Just out of curiosity what can you not get on an F-sport other than leather and wood trim? I was leaning towards the luxury package on a regular ES but the circuit red in the F-sport is growing on me. I’m now curious about the draw backs of the sport package compared to the luxury/ultra luxury package.
If you opt for the F-Sport, you will only be able to equip the Premium Pack only. You'll be missing on the features given to you by the Luxury Pack and Ultra Luxury Pack because you can't option those.

Its really a decision of - do you want more luxury or more sportiness? For me - I would pick the luxury route. The Lexus ES is not a sports car by any means - so its just more wise, in my opinion, to option the luxury route. Why should I sacrifice the amazing luxury features on a Lexus ES in order to get a Lexus ES F-Sport that isn't even a remotely "sporty".
Sakura
Besides - I do agree. The 2018 Toyota Camry XSE and the 2019 Lexus ES handles better than their predecessors did. But that doesn't mean its some handling-king that you put on the mountain roads.
yeah, so what does that mean?

Re-read krew's review, forget your own preconceived notions about ES, it handles well vs competition, including A6, etc. As I said before, It likely handles way better than my own IS, which is supposedly sporty RWD sedan.
TNGA IS should be fun though :)
Ian Schmidt
TNGA IS should be fun though :)
yeah, problem with old platform was that there is choice they had to make - sport/hard or comfy/boat... with TNGA it does not have to be that black and white, and it is quite cool that Toyota has managed to do that and not VW for instance, that has done platform sharing forever and all of their new vehicles are having this old Toyota problem of comfy vs sport.
L
Sakura

Other than leather and wood trim with ambiant lighting I'm not seeing much else you cant option from the luxury and ultra luxury package to the F-sport. Am i missing something? I know those are pretty big pieces but just making sure i understand the limitations.

I really want the more aggressive styling as i really hate the basic grill on the base model ES.
lsu5508
Other than leather and wood trim with ambiant lighting I'm not seeing much else you cant option from the luxury and ultra luxury package to the F-sport. Am i missing something? I know those are pretty big pieces but just making sure i understand the limitations.

I really want the more aggressive styling as i really hate the basic grill on the base model ES.
Looks like Power Trunk open/close and Power Rear Sunshade are the most significant differences between Ultra Luxury & F SPORT, also F SPORT is only available with NuLuxe rather than leather. I wonder if F SPORT will have the ML sound system as an option?
L
I thought you had both of those listed as optional additions in your technical review..
lsu5508
I thought you had both of those listed as optional additions in your technical review..
And so I did! However, it's difficult to say just which of the stand-alone options Lexus will offer on the F SPORT.
S
spwolf
yeah, so what does that mean?

Re-read krew's review, forget your own preconceived notions about ES, it handles well vs competition, including A6, etc. As I said before, It likely handles way better than my own IS, which is supposedly sporty RWD sedan.
It means what it literally means.
I mean: it handles better than its predecessors but its not something you would take to the mountains and push it to the edge.

I believe there is nothing wrong with my statement. It obviously better than before but its obviously not better than say a Civic Type R or STi is where I'm getting at. Hence - I said, "handling-king". Obviously the Lexus ES wasn't built for that and there is nothing wrong with that. The Lexus ES is an amazing luxury car that handles better than its predecessors - it doesn't need to be some handling king. It doesn't need to be powerful either. Its good at being a comfortable-luxurious-reliable car.

Within the competition? If you included the A6, does that mean you are stating the 2019 Lexus ES's handling is also on par with the BMW 5 Series or MB E-Class? I can't speak on behalf an A6 because I never drove one. But I highly doubt a FWD Lexus ES handles better than the BMW 5 Series or MB E-Class.

The 2G Lexus IS was a wonderful luxury car but it wasn't a good handling car. The car was pretty numb and the steering was unresponsive. The 2G Lexus IS handled worst than the Acura TSX and Acura TL - so obviously the 2019 Lexus ES will handle better.
Note: I have driven the 2G Lexus IS, 1G/2G Acura TSX, and 3G Acura TL around the time period of 2006-2008.

lsu5508
Sakura

Other than leather and wood trim with ambiant lighting I'm not seeing much else you cant option from the luxury and ultra luxury package to the F-sport. Am i missing something? I know those are pretty big pieces but just making sure i understand the limitations.

I really want the more aggressive styling as i really hate the basic grill on the base model ES.
Like Krew said, Power Trunk, Power Shade, and Leather seems to be the biggest difference we know so far. I think we might have to wait for the actual build simulation to figure out what's really missing. I'm expecting quite a bit. The 3G 2014 Lexus IS F-Sport was missing quite a bit of features compared to its non F-Sport counter-part. I'll bet that later into the model years - the Lexus ES F-Sport might offer more luxurious features.
Sakura
I believe there is nothing wrong with my statement. It obviously better than before but its obviously not better than say a Civic Type R or STi is where I'm getting at. Hence - I said, "handling-king". Obviously the Lexus ES wasn't built for that and there is nothing wrong with that. The Lexus ES is an amazing luxury car that handles better than its predecessors - it doesn't need to be some handling king. It doesn't need to be powerful either. Its good at being a comfortable-luxurious-reliable car.

Within the competition? If you included the A6, does that mean you are stating the 2019 Lexus ES's handling is also on par with the BMW 5 Series or MB E-Class? I can't speak on behalf an A6 because I never drove one. But I highly doubt a FWD Lexus ES handles better than the BMW 5 Series or MB E-Class.

The 2G Lexus IS was a wonderful luxury car but it wasn't a good handling car. The car was pretty numb and the steering was unresponsive. The 2G Lexus IS handled worst than the Acura TSX and Acura TL - so obviously the 2019 Lexus ES will handle better.
Note: I have driven the 2G Lexus IS, 1G/2G Acura TSX, and 3G Acura TL around the time period of 2006-2008.

I have forgoten how to call this marketing technique, but what I see is that it is used deceptively by lumping all German brands under the category of "good handling", when the truth is that only BMW and Porsche are the real ones that handle well, and that BMW has a recent past of cars not handling that well (see BMW Forum), and that only recently has Mercedes improved their handling, and that Audis have never really been and are not yet a well handling cars, and that the VW Golf is not a remarkably well handling car.

But what you say basically confirms that good handling is not just a matter of FWD vs. RWD vs. AWD.

The worst handling car I ever drove was a Toyota Hiace mk4 (Grand Hiace or Gravia), it was RWD.

In general, unless it is a tiny budget car, there are no modern cars that handle badly, all handle well and are capable of illegal maneuvers before the driver's abilities are put to test. Imagine a film scene in real life, a basic 5 Series (that is not M5) will not have an edge over a Camry adequately powered, it will all be about the driver. It just happens a more daring driver will be behind the wheel of the BMW, but the BMW has nothing to do, it is image.
Sakura
The 2G Lexus IS was a wonderful luxury car but it wasn't a good handling car. The car was pretty numb and the steering was unresponsive. The 2G Lexus IS handled worst than the Acura TSX and Acura TL - so obviously the 2019 Lexus ES will handle better.
Note: I have driven the 2G Lexus IS, 1G/2G Acura TSX, and 3G Acura TL around the time period of 2006-2008.
Those are valid criticisms of the older versions of Lexus' 2IS. We should note, however, that the numerous suspension, steering and VDIM tweaks and improvements made for the 2011 2IS made a world of difference. A friend had a 2006 IS 350 with the Sport package, and after I got my 2011 IS 350 F Sport tried them back-to-back. It was an eye-opener, and yet another example of Lexus kaizen, or continuous improvement.

Ok, now back to ES...
S
Levi
But what you say basically confirms that good handling is not just a matter of FWD vs. RWD vs. AWD.
FWD, RWD and AWD will not be the sole reason a car handles good. A FWD car handle good. A RWD car can handle poorly. However - its how these cars are step up. This is what I was alluding too.

While the 2019 Lexus ES is obviously better - its not as "amazing" as some people make it out to be. Because you'll obviously feel the draw-backs of the MacPherson suspensions and FWD.
Sakura
FWD, RWD and AWD will not be the sole reason a car handles good. A FWD car handle good. A RWD car can handle poorly. However - its how these cars are step up. This is what I was alluding too.

While the 2019 Lexus ES is obviously better - its not as "amazing" as some people make it out to be. Because you'll obviously feel the draw-backs of the MacPherson suspensions and FWD.
Like every other "amazing" FWD.
L
Sakura
Like Krew said, Power Trunk, Power Shade, and Leather seems to be the biggest difference we know so far. I think we might have to wait for the actual build simulation to figure out what's really missing. I'm expecting quite a bit. The 3G 2014 Lexus IS F-Sport was missing quite a bit of features compared to its non F-Sport counter-part. I'll bet that later into the model years - the Lexus ES F-Sport might offer more luxurious features.


When will be the first time an average Joe can get a good look before ordering? Do dealerships get demo cars prior to official production arrival. No chance i'm pre-ordering blind. Also when do the build options and pricing typically show up on the Lexus website?

L
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