Will Genesis hurt Lexus?

[Tragic Bronson]

Infiniti has nothing to worry about. Their fate has already been determined a few years ago by Carlos Ghosn. Nissan can't even get out their first post-Tesla electric car before Toyota (late to the party?), so don't dream of an electric FX.

I almost forgot about the Ariya...they keep postponing its release, while Hyundai already brought out the Ioniq 5, and Kia is about to ship the EV6 to dealers. I've test driven a Leaf, and its so meh.

 

[mmcartalk]

I've test driven a Leaf, and its so meh.

The way Nissan priced the Leaf, one would think that money grows on trees.

(Just kidding)

 

[mikeavelli]

Market loses more steam as SAAR tumbles to 2022 low

With retail inventories still stuck below 1 million units for a year now, the U.S. light-vehicle market lost more momentum in May, with the seasonally adjusted, annualized rate of sales falling to a 2022 low of 12.81 million.

www.autonews.com

What’s crazy is Genesis is only 2,000 units away from acura last month. I can’t find Nissan but I assume they were close again to Infiniti.

Lexus is fine.

Market loses more steam as SAAR tumbles to 2022 low

With retail inventories still stuck below 1 million units for a year now, the U.S. light-vehicle market lost more momentum in May, with the seasonally adjusted, annualized rate of sales falling to a 2022 low of 12.81 million.

www.autonews.com

 

[spwolf]

Market loses more steam as SAAR tumbles to 2022 low

With retail inventories still stuck below 1 million units for a year now, the U.S. light-vehicle market lost more momentum in May, with the seasonally adjusted, annualized rate of sales falling to a 2022 low of 12.81 million.

www.autonews.com

What’s crazy is Genesis is only 2,000 units away from acura last month. I can’t find Nissan but I assume they were close again to Infiniti.

Lexus is fine.

Market loses more steam as SAAR tumbles to 2022 low

With retail inventories still stuck below 1 million units for a year now, the U.S. light-vehicle market lost more momentum in May, with the seasonally adjusted, annualized rate of sales falling to a 2022 low of 12.81 million.

www.autonews.com

Well, that is likely because Acura dealers do not have vehicles they can sell on the lots, while Genesis apparently does.

Product wise, Genesis invested a lot more in their lineup than Acura.
They just need to invest a lot more into branding in order for luxury buyer to actually consider them.

If Hyundai invests billions into branding, etc, vehicles are already good and they will be able to sell them.
But, you cant do that with pop up stores in Europe, they are not Tesla. Nobody knows who they are, they are selling traditional vehicles, just trying to save money by not investing into dealerships and branding.

 

[yiantony]

Genesis SUVs are really, really appealing, even comparing to the new NX and RX. I wouldn't be surprised that Genesis would be top 3 in luxury SUV market in the coming years. Acura and Infiniti are going downhill crazily fast. I wonder what they've been doing in all these years. It seems they have not been investing at all in newer models.

 

[pthirakoun]

Genesis claiming "Not aiming for Lexus anymore" what a laugh!
Genesis need to beat toyota first before taking on Lexus lol (speaking reliability)
and build quality? genesis need to beat lexus even before taking on the Germans, and even that.. the some of the germans cant even compete with lexus quality and reliability.. bold statement from Hyundai, they should try to keep their comments to themselves

 

[Levi]

Genesis G70 has economy car exposed window frame inside (with Bentley style seats), so looks over quality. Even the Kia Stinger GT has plastic molding to cover the frame.

I still like the G70, but it is no IS in quality and reliability.

 

[Gecko]

While they are not "my style," I do have a lot of respect for the GV70, GV80, G80 and G90. I actually do really like the G80 Sport and would probably consider one if I was shopping in that class.

The same things hold true - Genesis' lineup is small, their dealer network is barely existent and there are some areas where their quality isn't quite at Lexus levels, but I have been impressed with how much progress they've made in a short amount of time.

One area where Lexus DOES need to be very careful with Genesis is EVs. The only thing that's clear about Lexus' EV strategy is that they are majorly behind the market while Hyundai/Kia are emerging as leaders with strong execution and great tech.

 

[JustADude]

The RX sold more vehicles than the entire Genesis lineup for 2022. They shouldn't be worried anytime soon. Genesis has them beat in EVs, but we'll see what Lexus has in plan by the end of the decade when EVs are gonna be more important than ever.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

The RX sold more vehicles than the entire Genesis lineup for this year. They shouldn't be worried anytime soon. Genesis has them beat in EVs, but we'll see what Lexus has in plan by the end of the decade when EVs are gonna be more important than ever.

Acura and Infiniti have more to worry about

While they are not "my style," I do have a lot of respect for the GV70, GV80, G80 and G90. I actually do really like the G80 Sport and would probably consider one if I was shopping in that class.

The same things hold true - Genesis' lineup is small, their dealer network is barely existent and there are some areas where their quality isn't quite at Lexus levels, but I have been impressed with how much progress they've made in a short amount of time.

One area where Lexus DOES need to be very careful with Genesis is EVs. The only thing that's clear about Lexus' EV strategy is that they are majorly behind the market while Hyundai/Kia are emerging as leaders with strong execution and great tech.

I found out that their US boss Mark Del Rosso, who started his career with Toyota and Lexus had to step down because of personal issues he started to have in 2021. Another prominent ex Toyota alum who worked for Genesis for the short term was Jeri Yoshizu, who was credited for Scion's marketing and part of the Genesis project that brought the Echo, MR2 Spyder and Celica to market.

 

[mikeavelli]

Demand softened up as they had national advertising with money on the hood. With the stinger being canned not sure what that means for the GV70.

They passed Infinti in sales again and now are gaining on Acura who was down 32% or so. Also S Korea supports their home brand.. Infiniti and Acura likely will never exist in Japan. Also Lincoln, Volvo etc here in the states should worry.

Overall they make a very good product at all levels. Well built, good materials, nice interiors and styling that resonates with people. They drive good too. On the flipside they make no coupes, no real performance vehicles, no convertibles, no hybrids and still a flat dealer network.

I don’t think Lexus has much to worry about. I remember 20 years ago when idiots said Lexus would fall when the G35 and FX came etc etc

 

[ssun30]

One area where Lexus DOES need to be very careful with Genesis is EVs. The only thing that's clear about Lexus' EV strategy is that they are majorly behind the market while Hyundai/Kia are emerging as leaders with strong execution and great tech.

Genesis is quite scary at winning "mind share" among potential luxury EV buyers. Sure their true market share is nowhere near Tesla. But what they are doing now will reward them in the future. When more and more people become convinced about EVs, that mind share can convert into market share very quickly.

 

[NVlaar]

Hyundai Group have always aimed to rival/beat Japan automakers (TMC in particular) partly because TMC being the best among automakers and also partly because of general rivalry/bitterness that South Koreans companies tend to have towards Japan counterparts. Samsung has already beat the hell out of Japan Tech and Hyundai wants to follow the same footsteps. Still, it is way off for them to go head to head with TMC but like I've discussed in other threads they are climbing up the ladder really really fast (much faster than I would like them to be LOL).

Below article about how Hyundai came from sourcing engines from Mitsubishi to building the former Genesis luxury model shows how far they have come and how their development philosophy always has been.

Hyundai: from borrowing engines from Mitsubishi to providing them for Mercedes-Benz

Once dependent on borrowing other automaker's designs, Korean automaker Hyundai is now reluctant to reciprocate. Read more at Automobile Magazine online.

www.motortrend.com

In that article, I would like to highlight this:
"It all started in 1990," recalls Dr. Lee, "when Toyota launched Lexus. We were just spectators, but we thought, 'Why couldn't we do that, also?' At the time, our daydream seemed laughable, but through diligence and hard work, our dream has come true"

All that said, going back to the original question "will the Genesis hurt Lexus?"

No - for now.
Probably (very likely) - in a near future.

 

[Sulu]

Overall they make a very good product at all levels. Well built, good materials, nice interiors and styling that resonates with people. They drive good too. On the flipside they make no coupes, no real performance vehicles, no convertibles, no hybrids and still a flat dealer network.

No (GT) coupes and no performance vehicles ... yet. I have no doubt that these vehicles are coming eventually. As Genesis is still a startup brand, they are rightfully concentrating on the types of vehicles that do sell and get them established as a legitimate and viable luxury brand, which are crossovers and luxury sedans.

No hybrids is not a problem. As a late-comer, it is a smart move to skip the intermediate, stop-gap measure of hybrids and go straight to EVs, which is what they are doing.

 

[mikeavelli]

No (GT) coupes and no performance vehicles ... yet. I have no doubt that these vehicles are coming eventually. As Genesis is still a startup brand, they are rightfully concentrating on the types of vehicles that do sell and get them established as a legitimate and viable luxury brand, which are crossovers and luxury sedans.

No hybrids is not a problem. As a late-comer, it is a smart move to skip the intermediate, stop-gap measure of hybrids and go straight to EVs, which is what they are doing.

They said that coupe and convertible concept is not coming. Seeing as their sedans sell at home a bit hopefully that helps them from just selling crossovers.

Millions of hybrids are sold a year and some people don’t want an EV. But i do understand going EV since Toyota and Lexus dominate hybrids.

 

[mikeavelli]

Hyundai Group have always aimed to rival/beat Japan automakers (TMC in particular) partly because TMC being the best among automakers and also partly because of general rivalry/bitterness that South Koreans companies tend to have towards Japan counterparts. Samsung has already beat the hell out of Japan Tech and Hyundai wants to follow the same footsteps. Still, it is way off for them to go head to head with TMC but like I've discussed in other threads they are climbing up the ladder really really fast (much faster than I would like them to be LOL).

Below article about how Hyundai came from sourcing engines from Mitsubishi to building the former Genesis luxury model shows how far they have come and how their development philosophy always has been.

Hyundai: from borrowing engines from Mitsubishi to providing them for Mercedes-Benz

Once dependent on borrowing other automaker's designs, Korean automaker Hyundai is now reluctant to reciprocate. Read more at Automobile Magazine online.

www.motortrend.com

In that article, I would like to highlight this:
"It all started in 1990," recalls Dr. Lee, "when Toyota launched Lexus. We were just spectators, but we thought, 'Why couldn't we do that, also?' At the time, our daydream seemed laughable, but through diligence and hard work, our dream has come true"

All that said, going back to the original question "will the Genesis hurt Lexus?"

No - for now.
Probably (very likely) - in a near future.

Yup Toyota and Lexus clearly provided direction and inspiration to Hyundai Group. As mentioned above including hiring many ex Toyota and Lexus employees. Y’all might have forgotten the powerpoint fiasco years ago. Even the Genesis house is a copy of Lexus Intersect.

To me the brand still is trying to find itself as it just is a weird mix of copies or everyone or directly like the GV80 is a Bentley Bentayga Clone. That said it is still a good product. Acura still can’t spell luxury compared to what Genesis is doing.

 

[mikeavelli]

Sounds like GV70 is canned due to slow sales. We already know the Kia Stinger twin died because of slow sales.

It’s crazy how this was such a hot selling segment 15 years ago and now it just isn’t. Their pricing was too high for both as well,

Shame I liked both. Manual initially offered. The irony of brands making cars for car enthusiasts and they just largely ignore them.

Genesis G70 To Be Dropped After Just One Generation: Report

The Genesis G70 reportedly won't get another generation, according to Korea Joongang Daily.

www.motor1.com

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Sounds like GV70 is canned due to slow sales. We already know the Kia Stinger twin died because of slow sales.

It’s crazy how this was such a hot selling segment 15 years ago and now it just isn’t. Their pricing was too high for both as well,

Shame I liked both. Manual initially offered. The irony of brands making cars for car enthusiasts and they just largely ignore them.

Genesis G70 To Be Dropped After Just One Generation: Report

The Genesis G70 reportedly won't get another generation, according to Korea Joongang Daily.

www.motor1.com

G70 you mean.

And yeah, this has taken me by surprise. This seemed like a fine car that Genesis needed to further work on. Funny how the archaic IS is not only surviving, but is thriving AND a new generation is on the way. Insane.

 

[Trexus]

Agreed F1! Here's a video stating that the current IS is far from the last generation, I'm assuming many more generations will follow in the future...look forward to the 4IS...

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Agreed F1! Here's a video stating that the current IS is far from the last generation, I'm assuming many more generations will follow in the future...look forward to the 4IS...

Lovely. 😍