Will Genesis hurt Lexus?

Levi

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As much crap as we give Lexus, I think it is the Japanese culture that killed Lexus, Infiniti and Acura.

I think it truly is this. Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic are not what they were: the best. Japan, or any other country interested in not failing the same way better use this as a case study.
 

mmcartalk

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Genesis hasn't hurt Lexus; Lexus has hurt Lexus.

IMO, both have hurt Lexus. Genesis, at least to some extent, is turning out just as good or better products for sometimes less money. Lexus, however, to its credit, has managed to keep reliability up, even though their products, IMO are not as solidly-built today as they were in the 1990s and early 2000s. As Mike pointed out, Genesis also suffers from a sub-par dealer-network.
 

Ian Schmidt

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I think it truly is this. Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic are not what they were: the best. Japan, or any other country interested in not failing the same way better use this as a case study.

Yes and no. The Japanese electronics companies got hit hard by the US consumer preference for TVs shifting to "lowest price" instead of "highest quality". Panasonic in particular is still making compelling high-quality stuff, but they only sell it in Canada, not the US. By contrast, Lexus has done pretty well at tracking mass-market preference with the NX and UX, it's the enthusiasts that are restless.

And Genesis isn't hurting anyone yet. I see pre-brand-split Hyundai Genesis cars on the road somewhat regularly, but I've never seen a Genesis-branded example on the road. I feel like they might have accidentally pulled a reverse-Lexus, where Hyundai has gained enough brand equity and customer loyalty that they would've been better off just calling those cars Hyundais.
 

spwolf

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Yes and no. The Japanese electronics companies got hit hard by the US consumer preference for TVs shifting to "lowest price" instead of "highest quality". Panasonic in particular is still making compelling high-quality stuff, but they only sell it in Canada, not the US. By contrast, Lexus has done pretty well at tracking mass-market preference with the NX and UX, it's the enthusiasts that are restless.

And Genesis isn't hurting anyone yet. I see pre-brand-split Hyundai Genesis cars on the road somewhat regularly, but I've never seen a Genesis-branded example on the road. I feel like they might have accidentally pulled a reverse-Lexus, where Hyundai has gained enough brand equity and customer loyalty that they would've been better off just calling those cars Hyundais.

Generally speaking, Hyundai/KIA has switched from targeting Toyota buyers to European/US brand buyers. In past 10 years they did not have much success in taking sales away from Japanese, so they are doing it differently now... and their cars have never been better.
 

mmcartalk

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Not sure if this has been posted or not, but, if not, Genesis now has GV80 pricing, specs, and the Build-Your-Own feature ready on the website. Public release is still scheduled for some time this fall. 2.5L Turbo-4 models with RWD will start at $48,900, with AWD at $54,650, and 3.5L Turbo V6 AWD models at $59,150, although I wouldn't expect many base RWD models to sell except in areas with a very warm climate and/or little chance of icy roads.

https://www.genesis.com/us/en/build-...z=GV80&yr=2021
 

Gecko

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That pricing is pretty rich IMO, and I really like the GV80. Turbo 4 cylinder with two wheel drive for $50k...?

Not saying the RX is better, but it’s the dominant force in this class, starts $5k less with a V6 and is much more accessible (dealer network).

AWD with a turbo 4cyl for $55k? Lol.

$55k buys you a fairly loaded AWD RX, MDX, QX60 or is the price of admission on a Q7. I expected Hyundai to be a little more aggressive/realistic with pricing.
 

Sulu

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Pricing, especially of luxury-brand vehicles, is perception. Price a vehicle on the low side and the prospective buyers may perceive the vehicle -- and the brand -- to be an immature product and a lower-tier, not-yet-established brand.

Yes, new luxury brands will price their vehicles on the low side, but that is a marketing trick to attract buyers who would not be familiar with the new brand; but once the brand is established, low prices may be a detriment to the wanted perception of being an established brand.

By pricing the GV80 SUV higher than its competitors, Hyundai may be trying to prove that Genesis is a luxury brand to be taken seriously. Whether buyers will agree with this is another matter.

I remember not long ago that Lexus was in middle of this type of argument. Some buyers, still used to Lexus as a new, bargain-luxury brand, complained about Lexus pricing its vehicles competitively.
 

ssun30

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Poor pricing. No chance against the RX. Not to mention at that price there's also the GX. The GX is so successful at that price point for reasons not well understood, it just works.
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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Not sure if this has been posted or not, but, if not, Genesis now has GV80 pricing, specs, and the Build-Your-Own feature ready on the website. Public release is still scheduled for some time this fall. 2.5L Turbo-4 models with RWD will start at $48,900, with AWD at $54,650, and 3.5L Turbo V6 AWD models at $59,150, although I wouldn't expect many base RWD models to sell except in areas with a very warm climate and/or little chance of icy roads.

https://www.genesis.com/us/en/build-...z=GV80&yr=2021
The $59,150 is for the base 3.5T V6 (which come exclusively in AWD). The top-of-the-line Prestige variant of that model starts at $70,950.

That pricing is pretty rich IMO, and I really like the GV80.
Agreed
 

suxeL

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I`d say the preorder #s on a product sight unseen is pretty good thus far. I wonder if they can repeat the telluride and pallisade spell/situation on customers of the GV80.
 
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Poor pricing. No chance against the RX. Not to mention at that price there's also the GX. The GX is so successful at that price point for reasons not well understood, it just works.
The only chance would be if it gets incentives and discounts; it is expected that luxury vehicles will have them now in the US market.

The RX needs the incentives as much as everyone else to keep selling at its current pace and to stay ahead in the sales ranks, as much as the Camry has needed them too.
 

mikeavelli

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Interesting strategy. Genesis and even the Japanese brands used to really showcase value. For example a V-6tt starting at 48k as the base engine. Instead you get less for less. In the past it was more for less, ala say the G90 where you get a V-8 for V-6 money.

Now mind you it will sell, any SUV sells and from what I've seen on FB groups and forums there are a ton of people that want this vehicle and the main vehicle I see it compared to is actually the MDX.
 

Levi

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It is important to remember that a number of customers have enough disposable income to buy expensive cars, are not really car geeks but just do not want to be associated with German Premium images, but also do not trust the unsuccessful Jaguar, Alfa Romeo/Maserati brands, are left behind with with Japanese Premium alternatives, and Genesis is a clean sheet without negatives at the moment, rather Kia/Hyundai project a favorable image on Genesis. If Genesis turns out the be viewed by the market as an equal to German Premium alternative, they will be successful.
 
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mikeavelli

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It is important to remember that a number of customers have enough disposable income to buy expensive cars, are not really car geeks but just do not want to be associated with German Premium images, but also do not trust the unsuccessful Jaguar, Alfa Romeo/Maserati brands, are left behind with with Japanese Premium alternatives, and Genesis is a clean sheet without negatives at the moment, rather Kia/Hyundai project a favorable image on Genesis. If Genesis turns out the be viewed by the market as an equal to German Premium alternative, they will be successful.

It is a SUV, it will sell. You have to offer something really bad or ugly not to sell. Heck even ugly sells lol. This thing will do fine. They still cannot meet Palisade/Telluride demand.

Also maybe its just me but I would get a Telluride over this.
 
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Everyone here knows that I love to take every opportunity to take a shot at Genesis a while back because they were such a joke of a brand. However, we're in no place to be criticizing Genesis right now. They can do whatever the hell they please. They've made a good product and the price backs it up. I know Genesis in the beginning were supposed to be a budget luxury alternative to the more established brands like BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, and Lexus (heck, the latter of the established brands took the same approach as Genesis before until they really became a huge tour-de-force in the automotive industry and became the pride and soul of Japan), but this car is a product that's earned the decently sized price tag.

Point is, Genesis could have put this car for a cheaper price, but nothing about the car is cheap though. They feel like they could sell this car for more (and they should, because it will be an absolute hit), so be it. At least they're putting out something of substance unlike Lexus.

This is a warning to Lexus. There will be one day where nobody will even give a damn about the RX and will join the other crop of cars that have been neglected. Manufacturers like Genesis, Cadillac, and Acura will eat everything Lexus has from the bottom end, and from the top end you'll have sales going to Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Audi.

Lexus was number 1 because they innovated, were reliable, and were competitive. Now they're just reliable. Adding to that, if one takes a look at recent years, Mercedes-Benz and BMW have been becoming more reliable, with very reasonable lease and finance deals as well. At that point, why the hell would someone buy a Lexus?

I'm sticking to Toyota and the Germans.
 
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maiaramdan

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Honestly
Sony, Panasonic & Toshiba start getting upward after reached the bottom down slop point

Same for the automakers

Mazda slop is also increases!
 
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Will1991

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Anyone still remember this ( https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lexus/ct/103198/new-2020-lexus-ct-hatch-to-rival-tesla-model-3 )?

Well, Genesis is apparently doing it:

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Were is Lexus???