LexsCTJill
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Lexus GX and LX are just gravy in the whole scheme. And pure profit. All off existing Toyota platforms. Very desirable vehicles throughout the world.
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Will Genesis hurt Lexus?
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Lexus GX and LX are just gravy in the whole scheme. And pure profit. All off existing Toyota platforms. Very desirable vehicles throughout the world.
Tragic Bronson
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But now they are at the end of the road, at least here in the US market, so they need to be redone. US is not the rest of the world. The biggest market for them, the Middle East, drive them through sand dunes and what not, and have very different expectations of their luxury vehicles than those who drive them to Rodeo Drive and South Beach. If you want to sell at the asking price points of the Western world, you got to have the tech.
And that is why, Genesis may be a sleeper, but they are plenty steps behind. Lexus buyers are a certain type, and Genesis may not necessarily be targeting those buyers at least the cars I consider its competition. Looking down at competition isn't doing a company favors, I still think Tesla is a bigger threat now that Lexus management should be worried about. "Know your enemy"
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Let me preface this with I`m not privy to the internal numbers BUT:
13% of the luxury USA market is owned by Lexus.
42% of Lexus's global market is from sales in the US
Since 2015 sales have been shrinking for Lexus in the US market.
Not attempting to paint any picture, but instead adding context to that statistic
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mikeavelli
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Yeah I don't think a lot of people understand the USA isn't growing and its tapped out. The growth is in China and they will dominate new product and what comes out.
FYI, Lexus had a huge month in China last month.
FYI, Lexus had a huge month in China last month.
LexsCTJill
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I think it’s important to look at overall sales for all cars when you look at Lexis or any other brand. The reason is it captures what happens when somebody might leave a luxury brand, for example somebody who might be driving a Lexus RX, might move on to a Toyota Land Cruiser. Or somebody who might be driving a Lexus RC, might move on to a Toyota supra.
Genesis overall market share in the US is like .017. Lexus is 1.75% and in 2019 actually went up in market share despite falling sales.
Lexus has gone from capturing 18.2% of the luxury vehicle market down to a current low of 13%?
LexsCTJill
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It is impossible for some to grasp this.
I would edit that last bit just since it kinda goes against what your trying to say.
bogglo
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When I see a forum like this it's always funny. Everyone have a good point. But everything we are talking about here there is someone at Toyota getting paid 6 figures to make this argument to Toyota also so that they can act.
It's frustrating I know waiting on them to act and that's what makes you all a lexus enthusiast.
Apparently Toyota can't walk and chew gum at the same time so. Toyota gets all the goodies for now. Especially during this economy crisis people are more likely to buy a regular car than a luxurious one. So I will say this a perfect time to bring new models to Toyota. Going forward we will see what lexus have in stock for us. Matter of fact I think it's only going to get harder for Genesis to compete.
It's frustrating I know waiting on them to act and that's what makes you all a lexus enthusiast.
Apparently Toyota can't walk and chew gum at the same time so. Toyota gets all the goodies for now. Especially during this economy crisis people are more likely to buy a regular car than a luxurious one. So I will say this a perfect time to bring new models to Toyota. Going forward we will see what lexus have in stock for us. Matter of fact I think it's only going to get harder for Genesis to compete.
yiantony
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Their SUV lineup starts to attract me lately. The interior definitely look gorgeous compared to RX. I think in the long run if Genesis continues to do well like this and Lexus continues to drop the ball, they will be able to carve out a good amount of market share. I'm not particularly excited about their entry sports sedan. They need to do better at exterior and make themselves stand out. In this price range and segment, I would probably choose German cars if buying new. As a challenger in luxury tier you need to be a pioneer to standout and attract buyers. You need to offer something that other brands don't and do it particularly well. I hate to say this but no matter how much I don't like Tesla they successfully carve out a big chunk of market share from luxury brand because they do their whole system particularly well (integrations of car and phone and internet). Genesis doesn't have these yet. They re just gonna be a follower and beg for market share if they continue to do this.
mikeavelli
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Alex on autos is a Honda fanboy that always jabs Lexus. All you need to know.
That said, I agree it’s shocking Lexus doesn’t offer a stylish RWD based SUV yet. Hell Lincoln does.
The thing is how do you argue with the success of the RX? So I expect the next gen to be another leap forward.
That said, I agree it’s shocking Lexus doesn’t offer a stylish RWD based SUV yet. Hell Lincoln does.
The thing is how do you argue with the success of the RX? So I expect the next gen to be another leap forward.
internalaudit
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mikeavelli
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I mean you would have to be pretty lose in the head to pick a CR-V over the Rav-4. 🤣 The Rav-4 is much more compelling product.
James
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I haven't really read much of this read but looking at the title I would disagree. Genesis hasn't hurt Lexus; Lexus has hurt Lexus. All of their problems they have done to themselves. Seriously can we like send something to Lexus management and just show them our site and how pissed off we all are? Just disgraceful that we even have a thread about Genesis hurting Lexus. Lexus used to be fighting with the Big 3 of the Germans and now we are talking about them fighting Genesis. Disgraceful.
mikeavelli
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I do have to admit, I am in a ton of forum/groups and it is pretty shocking to see how Genesis owners dismiss Lexus. They almost don't see the IS as a target for the G70, the G80 continues and the GS is gone and the G90 guys scream V-8 when the LS has none. It's a stunning turn of events to be completely honest. Now they get a GV80 and Lexus doesn't have a product that technically matches it.
It is really crazy to see it never was Acura or Infiniti to worry about. Infiniti slightly as they did try to fix things a bit in the 2000s. The worry is Genesis and Hyundai putting the money into the product. The dealer network is completely awful which is hurting the product. I personally don't think the new grill/styling is going to help. We are talking 20-30 years. I just don't see it being a serious threat yet. But in a post Covid-19 world, who knows what auto brand will seize the moment and catch fire with buyers.
FYI, due to delays of the GV80 I've heard the entire executive team was fired. Also not hearing good things internally about the G80.
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Tragic Bronson
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I think that is the reason why Mark Del Rosso replaced the last guy that was running the show; he has experience not just with Audi/Bentley, but also Toyota and Lexus. I'm sure Genesis has more ex-Lexus/Toyota people in their ranks.
Joaquin Ruhi
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I've been invited to a non-driving photo shoot / video session for both G80 and GV80 this Friday. Let's see what impressions I get...
Gecko
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Simply stated, but a great point. All of Lexus' wounds are self inflicted - it just so happens that while they have been self sabotaging in their echo chamber, Genesis kicked off with some early signs of life and interesting products that use the original Lexus formula.
As much crap as we give Lexus, I think it is the Japanese culture that killed Lexus, Infiniti and Acura. It's been hardest to watch Lexus fall because they had the best run over 20 years, but the downfall of each brand has been nearly identical: slow decline because of a lack of commitment and investment in product differentiation from the parent brand. On the flipside, Korean culture is very aggressive and they are extremely driven to be #1 at all costs -- for better or worse.