Update: Lexus Confirms Three Row RX Crossover [Formerly RX Trademark Talk]

mikeavelli

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I don't think 200t would be offered. The RX in its 5-seat configuration already weighs about 2 tonnes and the 2.0L turbo is adequate. The "L" might feel underpowered if more seats, more passengers and more mass were piled on.



The current RX shares the same wheelbase dimension with the Toyota Highlander (I think they use the same platform?? Could be wrong), yet the Highlander has up to 8 seats. The overall length of the RX is about 1.4 inches longer - pretty much the same size. I reckon it's got to do with the design of the body. The RX has a raked rear hatch, but the Highlander has a boxy back-end - this means space can be used more flexibly in the Highlander. The x5 has a boxy back as well.

Very good point about the Highlander wheelbase....I'll be honest I've tested and the 3rd row is a really tiny...I couldn't fit, its for kids/infants only. To Nissan's credit the Pathfinder/QX60 3rd row is actually quite useable/roomy.
 

krew

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ONE FINAL THING: we have to be careful when we talk about trademarks in Europe. A lot of the data (especially the ones krew references) come from OHIM (Office of Harmonization for the Internal Market). The jurisdiction of OHIM enforceability is strictly within the EU. This does not include Russia, a non-EU country. And funny enough, the OHIM changed its name 2 days ago (23 March) to European Union Intellectual Property Office. So there we have it.

I find this interesting, especially when it comes to the initial RX 350L trademark. I have to think Russia would be one of the only places in Europe to offer the RX with the 3.5L.
 

krew

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I wonder how this plays out
RX 350
RX 350 F-Sport
RX 450h
RX 450h F-Sport

Will the "L" get all 4 options as well?

It's possible a fully loaded RX 450hL F SPORT could be the first RX to crack $70k in the US.
 

mwyf

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LOL! I'm hardly a full-fledged trademark expert, just a layman with a perhaps irrational interest in the subject. My early December 2014 Kaizen Factor piece on Lexus' LC 500 and LC 500h trademark filing ( http://kaizen-factor.com/lexus-registers-lc-500-lc-500h-trademarks/ ) did cite a couple of outside sources that addressed the time-limit questions you're asking about. Stephen Edelman of Motor Authority, in his piece on Ford's refiling of the Mach 1 trademark ( http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1087911_mach-1-trademarked-again--possibly-for-2015-ford-mustang ) notes that trademark applicants are typically allowed six extensions lasting six months each before actually putting a product with the trademarked name on sale. Once the product goes on sale, however, the trademark can be extended indefinitely or until allowed to lapse by the original holder. Greg Migliore of Autoblog wrote an excellent piece on trademark rules and cars ( http://www.autoblog.com/2014/08/07/trademark-next-iconic-car-name-feature/ ) that cites the example of General Motors' Buick Electra trademark. Although last used on a production car in 1990, the carmaker kept it alive for 24 more years, until finally abandoning it on July 28, 2014.

In the GLC and Encore examples you mention, I'm guessing that Mazda and American Motors/Renault abandoned the trademarks, allowing Mercedes-Benz and GM's Buick division to pick them up. GT is seemingly too generic to be trademarkable, and European trademark authorities feel the same way about GTI (which Peugeot and Suzuki used in addition to Volkswagen). VW was able to convince American trademark authorities to grant them sole use of GTI, however, and Suzuki had to rename its Swift GTi hot hatch Swift GT in the U.S.

I know I'm going in an off-topic tangent here, but I find the history of the Montego model name particularly interesting. This was first used by Ford's Mercury division in the 1968 model year for its so-called intermediate model line, essentially a gussied-up Ford Torino. Mercury continued using it until the end of the 1976 model year, when an expanded Cougar lineup took its place. During the 1980s, British Leyland's Austin marque, like Mercury, became enamored of model names starting with the letter "M" and Montego in particular. Although I haven't found an internet source to back it up, I recall reading in a Car magazine of the day that BL paid Ford something like $1600 or $1900 (or, perhaps it was 1600 or 1900 pounds sterling) for the rights to the Montego name. The Austin Montego (and a sportier MG Montego companion) went on sale in 1984, continuing until its death in 1995 as a Rover. A decade later, the Mercury Montego reemerged as an upmarket twin to the Ford Five Hundred (née Taurus) until the 2008 model year, when then-new Ford CEO Alan Mullaly decreed the return of the Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable badges.

If I could give a virtual high-five, I would give one to you.

Hope you don't mind me adding to your brilliant analysis. Typically, trademark registrations last for 10 years. Trademark holders can do whatever they like with their trademark - they can use it commercially in public; do nothing with it or; like Toyota, use it but conceal where they've applied it (*cough* TX *cough*). Once the 10 years of protection lapses, the company can renew the trademark. The renewal will grant an extra 10 years of protection. Companies can renew their trademarks as many times as they like. To disown the trademark, companies can abandon it and leave it to expire, or alternatively, sell it/exchange it with another company. I like the Montego example. More recently, Audi paid Fiat an indeterminate amount for "Q2" and "Q4" trademarks. Read more: http://www.caradvice.com.au/409569/...ark-swap-with-fiat-chrysler-for-q2-q4-badges/

Regarding the "GTI" - again, I agree, it's really generic. VAG likes to cannibalise universal/generic names. In 2011, Audi tried to trademark "TDi" but their application was denied by the European Court. Read more: http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/07/audi-denied-tdi-trademark-by-european-court/
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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If I could give a virtual high-five, I would give one to you.

Hope you don't mind me adding to your brilliant analysis. Typically, trademark registrations last for 10 years. Trademark holders can do whatever they like with their trademark - they can use it commercially in public; do nothing with it or; like Toyota, use it but conceal where they've applied it (*cough* TX *cough*). Once the 10 years of protection lapses, the company can renew the trademark. The renewal will grant an extra 10 years of protection. Companies can renew their trademarks as many times as they like. To disown the trademark, companies can abandon it and leave it to expire, or alternatively, sell it/exchange it with another company. I like the Montego example. More recently, Audi paid Fiat an indeterminate amount for "Q2" and "Q4" trademarks. Read more: http://www.caradvice.com.au/409569/...ark-swap-with-fiat-chrysler-for-q2-q4-badges/

Regarding the "GTI" - again, I agree, it's really generic. VAG likes to cannibalise universal/generic names. In 2011, Audi tried to trademark "TDi" but their application was denied by the European Court. Read more: http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/07/audi-denied-tdi-trademark-by-european-court/
To the contrary, I appreciate learning anything new that I can. I was unaware of the 10 years of protection for trademarks, but it certainly makes sense. I'd heard about Audi finally getting the Q2 and Q4 trademarks from Fiat, but was under the impression that not much money changed hands. I agree with the Car Advice author that personal animosity between VAG's Ferdinand Piëch and FCA's Sergio Marchionne blocked this from happening for years. With Piëch out of the way at VAG and FCA in increasingly dire financial straits, the deal finally happened. Less has been said about trademarks that FCA got in return from VAG, but I'll certainly hazard a guess. Both Maserati and Volkswagen have a thing for naming their cars after winds and, in fact, both marques have used the Bora name (for Maserati's rear-mid-engined V8 supercar built from 1971 to 1978 and for the 4th and 5th-generations of the VW Jetta in a number of markets outside the U.S. and Canada).

I was unaware of VAG attempting to register TDi for themselves and the European Court's totally justified rejection. Thanks for providing that tidbit of information.
 

meth.ix

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If I could give a virtual high-five, I would give one to you.

Hope you don't mind me adding to your brilliant analysis. Typically, trademark registrations last for 10 years. Trademark holders can do whatever they like with their trademark - they can use it commercially in public; do nothing with it or; like Toyota, use it but conceal where they've applied it (*cough* TX *cough*). Once the 10 years of protection lapses, the company can renew the trademark. The renewal will grant an extra 10 years of protection. Companies can renew their trademarks as many times as they like. To disown the trademark, companies can abandon it and leave it to expire, or alternatively, sell it/exchange it with another company. I like the Montego example. More recently, Audi paid Fiat an indeterminate amount for "Q2" and "Q4" trademarks. Read more: http://www.caradvice.com.au/409569/...ark-swap-with-fiat-chrysler-for-q2-q4-badges/

Regarding the "GTI" - again, I agree, it's really generic. VAG likes to cannibalise universal/generic names. In 2011, Audi tried to trademark "TDi" but their application was denied by the European Court. Read more: http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/07/audi-denied-tdi-trademark-by-european-court/
Haha would be funny if Lexus quickly took all the trademarks that end with -Class for the whole remaining Alphabet and everything that starts with GL and ends with -Class so Benz can't make any more models unless they pay up to Lexus. Also Lexus should take the Q6 trademark before Audi uses it for an RX competitor! lol
 
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