Update: Lexus Confirms Three Row RX Crossover [Formerly RX Trademark Talk]

[James]

Well this complicates things for us. Like corgilady2011 we are looking at SUVs and my wife was pretty set on the 5 seat RX but this throws a loop in things. Curious will F-Sports be offered.

I would have to believe that an F-Sport would be offered with how much Lexus has pushed for that!

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

But I'm thinking that Lexus purposely didn't add a Hybrid variant in Europe, since Hybrids aren't as popular in Europe.

Hybrids are certainly less popular in Europe than diesels at present, but Toyota and Lexus dominate the non-plug-in hybrid niche in Europe. In fact, I highly recommend checking out this excellent Automotive News article on hybrid cars' future in Europe: http://europe.autonews.com/article/20160315/ANE/160319949

Among its findings: the 7 best-selling non-plug-in hybrids in Europe are Toyota and Lexus products (Lexus NX, CT and IS were the 3rd, 4th and 5th best-selling ones, respectively, throughout Europe in 2015). Toyota and Lexus together sold a record 209,000 hybrids in Europe (including Russia and Turkey) in 2015. That was just under 25% of both brands' combined sales in the region. And those numbers are poised to keep growing, with predictions of triple the number of hybrid and plug-in hybrid sales in Europe (to more than 750,000) in the next 3 years,

Also, as I noted in an article I wrote for my.IS back in mid-2015 ( http://my.is/forums/f41/2016-lexus-sedans-europe-updated-551945/ ), within Lexus' European markets, Finland, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey and Ukraine are pretty much hybrid-only, and in the rest they tend to sell more hybrids than gasoline-only powerplants.

 

[Hamed Al Ketbi]

Honestly in the Middle-East most people use as their 7-seats car is, the LX570. However, if the RX-L will be coming to the Middle-East Families will defiantly go for the RX-L, and as for the GX460. In the Middle-East it doesn't really even make any big sales as in the US or Canada.
Also, I really find it very competitor for the Q7 and the X5 specially in the Middle-East as people don't even use the X5 & Q7 as 7-Seats as family use. which will take over them as 7-seats. (OPNION).

 

[Black Dynamite]

It's dumbfounding how for so many years Lexus had turned a blind eye on a market that is so painfully obviously in high demand to everyone with half a sense. Extending the wheelbase of the RX would require very little effort and yet the potential return of investment is so apparently huge if one simply looks at the sales volume of other three-row crossovers from all Lexus' rivals. Glad Lexus has finally come to their senses to grab this low-hanging fruit.

I said back in 2003 they should have built the HPX Concept, released at the 2003 New York Auto Show. It was a unibody built on the GS platform, and looked great. Would've dominated where the Mercedes GL dominates now.

I see why they haven't messed with the RX on this level before. When you are selling 10k a month, why mess with success? They should have build a larger RX model a long time ago. The problem is not the RX. The problem is growing the lineup. They're finally getting their act together.
BD

 

[krew]

With the arguable exception of the 1st-to-2nd-gen SC transition, we haven't really seen any Lexus models make huge changes in their "mission statement", if you will.

It might not be as dramatic as the SC, but the latest ES might be an example of this. The extended wheelbase really changed the character of that vehicle (for the better, in my opinion).

Even when it somehow seemed logical for Lexus' newest high-end 2+2 to become the 3rd-generation of SC, it instead went in a different direction and became an all-new LC line. Would a change from body-on-frame, truck-based true off-road SUV to more car-like crossover be such a major change to the GX's ethos that it would merit a new badge?

It's a good point, but I think using LC for the new coupe is more a reflection of the general "motor journalist" opinion of the SC. It would have become a story of lineage rather than something brand new.

The GX has more value than the SC in my mind, though at the same time, I imagine Lexus would want to build some distance between the BOF GX and a new unibody crossover.

 

[krew]

It feels like there is a place in the Lexus line-up for two unibody platform 3-row SUVs. RX350-L to be the Infiniti QX60 / Acura MDX type fighter, but there is definitely a bit of a gap in my mind in regards to something that could go up against the Audi Q7 and the Mercedes GLS for instance. The latter being much of my requirements in my next vehicle. 85% of my driving is in the city, therefore I really have little to no desire to drive a truck based luxury GX getting 15 mpg, when I could get a Prestige trim Q7 with 19 mpg and much more room and tech, or up my budget slightly and get the GLS.

Very insightful, thanks for sharing.

The three-row crossover is such a hot topic, and one I don't have much experience with. My family fits quite comfortably into a CT! It's very informative to read from people that need the space and utility.

I would think your position is the one shared by most people buying this type of vehicle -- the GX appeals to me the same way the G-Class and LX do, and that's this rugged but luxurious experience. Despite the SUVs recent success, I see that market as much smaller than the people that need to transport three rows of people here and there.

 

[krew]

A similar situation may have happened with RX 450hL in Europe. It may have been filed a day or 2 after RX 350L and nobody bothered to take a second look. At any rate, I'd expect overall European sales of an RX 450hL to far exceed those of RX 350L.

I would go even further and say that the RX 350L will probably only be offered in Russia and some smaller markets, with the RX 450hL being the single offereing in much of Western Europe.

 

[corgilady2011]

It does seem since I posted this, that Lexus spoke to at least one source today about confirming the RX350L and RX450H-L.

Looks to be coming in late 2017 or early 2018. Good news for me as my RX lease is ending on March 2018. Or maybe not so good news since I definitely would likely have to pay a premium to be a first adopter.

The RX350L will make the top of my list in my next car search. I am hoping that they increase the space a bit more than what I think they will, but realistically I am thinking it will be slightly larger than Highlander interior at best. The interesting thing, judging by dimensions alone on the 2016 RX/Highlander -- the RX is slightly bigger. To get the Lexus level of comfort, it will definitely need to elongate a few good inches both in length, height in the back and width of the SUV.

I sat in the Highlander at the DFW auto show last week. Nice car, but as a 5'1 petite lady, I clumsily threw myself in the third row and still had my knees huddled up. No way could I feel even remotely comfortable on anything more than a 5-15 minute ride in that seat. The third row would still definitely meet my current need, which would be to haul 2 corgis (hence the user name) while I have passengers in the second row and likely -- my first and/or second child at the time I purchase my next Lexus. I felt the same way in regards to the space of the MDX and QX60 for what it is worth since they are similar sizes. It seems overall there are two types of crossover SUVs - one where the third row is usable only for extremely small children or short trips, and one that is fully usable in the sense that an adult would feel somewhat comfortable back there.

I am hoping Lexus will make that third row in the RX350L a little tiny bit more spacious though, so it would maybe do double duty of at lower trims fighting against MDX and QX60, but higher trims even against the Q7/GLS.

 

[krew]

krew

Lexus has confirmed that a three-row RX crossover will go on sale in late 2017 or early 2018.

View the original article post

 

[James]

Okay everyone now that it has been confirmed! Why did they confirm so early...? Is it because it's another part of existing line? Or is it consumers ask so much about the third row they want people to know in a year it will be here...interesting topics what's everyone's thoughts?!

 

[mikeavelli]

Okay everyone now that it has been confirmed! Why did they confirm so early...? Is it because it's another part of existing line? Or is it consumers ask so much about the third row they want people to know in a year it will be here...interesting topics what's everyone's thoughts?!

I assume strategic. To me those looking for a third row are doing more research than a 5 seater. This might make people wait for a 7 seat RX/plan for it versus buying another brand.

 

[CIF]

Wow, I'm quite surprised by this to be honest.

Why? This means that looking back on previous statements from Lexus engineers and executives shows they lied directly when they said it "wasn't possible" to fit a 3rd row into the 4RX.

Not that I fully believe word-for-word every statement from every engineer or exec; this simply reinforces my personal opinion of thinking for myself, and looking at things independently of what any official word or press releases say.

So then this likely means the TX trademark was a red herring.

This also confirms some insider rumors (some that were originally mentioned on this forum) that the 3-row CUV would be an RX variant.

 

[allaroundgoodtimes]

The plan is to stop producing the gx...

 

[James]

The plan is to stop producing the gx...

Is it though? I know we had this discussion in great detail a few days ago on another post but is an RXL close to a GX at all? I mean they don't look similar really and have different audiences don't they? I guess the price of RXL would really determine what they do with the GX cause like we said you can't have a 50k-60k RXL and then the next step up is a 90k LX there has to be something in between.

 

[corgilady2011]

Okay everyone now that it has been confirmed! Why did they confirm so early...? Is it because it's another part of existing line? Or is it consumers ask so much about the third row they want people to know in a year it will be here...interesting topics what's everyone's thoughts?!

My personal suspicion, although I am not sure why announced so early -- except dealers have been begging for this for years.. this would probably be a good determinant of when they plan to refresh or make slight changes to 4RX.

As far as keeping GX in lineup alongside the RX-L, honestly -- it would then need to grow in size to gather a higher price point than it does now likely, or get the true "L" refresh like the RX/NX/LX so that you can pile on the options to it and maybe position it as a baby LX to an extent (all of the luxury and options of the LX, but slightly smaller and at a lower price point).

Look at the dimensions and size of the GX today though. The only real difference, at least from my sitting in it last weekend, was that it was taller than current RX. They make it any bigger, as I mentioned previously, you start to get to LX size. As it stands, didn't they actually effectively lower the GX pricing a couple of years ago, which that + the spindle helped to generate the refreshed success of the vehicle in the first place? Not to mention, when I sat in it, the one they had at our show was a Luxury, I have trouble even fathoming paying upwards of $65-68K for that vehicle in its current state. Maybe with the refresh I would feel differently, but the quality of the interior today vs what is in the '16 RX or LX for example feels night and day to me.

Of course, GX appeals to completely different type of buyer -- I am definitely not their target market. But I would suspect based on the information we've seen this week. We will see slightly refreshed 4RX for 2018 model year and introduction with RX-L. Sounds like they are thinking 4-runner will be new in this model year as well, which would have GX next gen for 2019 model year if they decide to keep running with it. I just can't imagine GX sitting in their lineup in its current state for that long.

 

[RAL]

I'm not so sure the TX is just a phantom ...

 

[oem_is300]

I think this is really exciting news to hear an official confirmation of an RXL. The RX, in my opinion, was a pioneer for the crossover market. I was a huge fan when the first gen was released, even remember having an RX300 poster with the Lexus ski team on my wall. Excited to see Lexus expand the RX lineup into an area with high demand. I'm sure these will be very popular.

Really curious what will happen with the GX/TX now too. Assuming the GX will probably have to move to a slightly higher pricepoint as I expect RXL to be around where the GX is now. I think Lexus should keep the GX around though, as discussed in the other speculation thread because there is a market for an offroad capable SUV priced lower than the LX. Perhaps they will use the TX nameplate to coincide with that change, or maybe that will be its own standalone model.

 

[Gecko]

I assume strategic. To me those looking for a third row are doing more research than a 5 seater. This might make people wait for a 7 seat RX/plan for it versus buying another brand.

I think so too. This isn't like there is a current model that people will stop buying waiting for a release... this is something all-new, so Lexus isn't going to lose any sales by making this announcement.

 

[Tinhinnh]

Is it though? I know we had this discussion in great detail a few days ago on another post but is an RXL close to a GX at all? I mean they don't look similar really and have different audiences don't they? I guess the price of RXL would really determine what they do with the GX cause like we said you can't have a 50k-60k RXL and then the next step up is a 90k LX there has to be something in between.

I think a 3 SUV in the lineup could work. Give the NX another engine option (v6) then it starts $35k-50k for a loaded one; RX/RXL would cover the $40k-65k space; now the LX, if they could somehow decrease the starting price... say use the 4.6L for the "base" model?

 

[meth.ix]

I think this is really exciting news to hear an official confirmation of an RXL. The RX, in my opinion, was a pioneer for the crossover market. I was a huge fan when the first gen was released, even remember having an RX300 poster with the Lexus ski team on my wall. Excited to see Lexus expand the RX lineup into an area with high demand. I'm sure these will be very popular.

Really curious what will happen with the GX/TX now too. Assuming the GX will probably have to move to a slightly higher pricepoint as I expect RXL to be around where the GX is now. I think Lexus should keep the GX around though, as discussed in the other speculation thread because there is a market for an offroad capable SUV priced lower than the LX. Perhaps they will use the TX nameplate to coincide with that change, or maybe that will be its own standalone model.

Whoa, I think the TX nameplate was originally registered for something else, but if I were Lexus, I would refresh the GX with the TX name. This would help it leave its bad history of sales and have a new fresh start.