Toyota BZ4X

Levi

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There are valid negative arguments that can be made about bZ4X and RZ 450e. But I think all are getting too emotional. I equate that to saying Lexus is game over because they did not twin-turbo V8 LC to compete against M8 and 911 Turbo.

The current state of BEVs is like 90's Japanese sports cars. If you want to see the real BEV market, do not read clickbait reviews, look at the BEVs that sold/sell, which were Nissan Leaf, are Renault Zoe, Peugeot 208-e, soon new 308-e, new Renault and so on, slow accelerating, slow charging, low range BEVs, nothing fancy. With a few exceptions, TMC is nothing fancy, nor are the main selling Kia/Hyundai models.
 

spwolf

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There are valid negative arguments that can be made about bZ4X and RZ 450e. But I think all are getting too emotional. I equate that to saying Lexus is game over because they did not twin-turbo V8 LC to compete against M8 and 911 Turbo.

The current state of BEVs is like 90's Japanese sports cars. If you want to see the real BEV market, do not read clickbait reviews, look at the BEVs that sold/sell, which were Nissan Leaf, are Renault Zoe, Peugeot 208-e, soon new 308-e, new Renault and so on, slow accelerating, slow charging, low range BEVs, nothing fancy. With a few exceptions, TMC is nothing fancy, nor are the main selling Kia/Hyundai models.

Stellantis stuff sells because it is a lot cheaper due to smaller battery. Nothing on the market charges as slow as BZ4X AWD in the US.

Base things first, looking forward to Toyota putting some charging information inside the car... or a way to find chargers via vehicle nav so they can plan the route. Right now this vehicle is not production ready.

There is absolutely nothing clickbait about BZ4X previews, if anything, too few journalists are talking about important usability issues it has.
 

Levi

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Base things first, looking forward to Toyota putting some charging information inside the car... or a way to find chargers via vehicle nav so they can plan the route. Right now this vehicle is not production ready.
Has nothing to do with the cars being BEVs. Lexus ICEVs have also had very criticized infotainment system, nothing changed really for a long time. Many such examples where TMC does do as others, even if it would be better.
 

spwolf

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Has nothing to do with the cars being BEVs. Lexus ICEVs have also had very criticized infotainment system, nothing changed really for a long time. Many such examples where TMC does do as others, even if it would be better.

What we are taking about is car not having instrument panel, not that instrument panel has ugly graphics.

You cant travel with this vehicle.
 

NXracer

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You need to make mistakes in the hope of learning to become better lol.

That being said, I assume TMC is researching/testing allegiance like Acura with their integra what works, what doesnt, and what they get can and can not get away with with EVs.
 

Ian Schmidt

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What we are taking about is car not having instrument panel, not that instrument panel has ugly graphics.

You cant travel with this vehicle.
That's as much a problem with the lack of chargers as it is with the car. Lexus ICE cars for years have been able to show and navigate to gas stations on the screen, but I'm not aware of anyone who uses that functionality because it's usually not hard to find gas. So it's an important feature now, but it likely won't be in the future.
 

spwolf

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You need to make mistakes in the hope of learning to become better lol.

That being said, I assume TMC is researching/testing allegiance like Acura with their integra what works, what doesnt, and what they get can and can not get away with with EVs.

yeah, they WILL get better.

Base stuff I am talking about has to come very soon, otherwise nothing makes sense. But it is weird nobody is saying when or talking about it from TMC side.

But for instance when it comes to current Toyota - current Toyota in Europe has the best mix of engines - hybrids - majority of people will want. Nothing competes well with 1.5l, 1.8l and 2.0l HSD, they are by far the best powertrains in the market for average joe.

You can even argue than their 450h+ powertrain is cream of the crop too.

This lacks base functionality for now, and then when that gets solved, it is years behind the leaders in feature set.

TMC with their lack of experience in BEV markets, thinks that size of the fuel tank is not the issue and that efficiency is the issue.
That is what worked for hybrids right?

But for BEVs, people care about how far can you go and how fast you can charge, not necessarily how efficient you are while doing that. Difference is that with Hybrids, you can stop every few miles at gas station and refuel fully for 3m. So Toyota can put 42l tanks in hybrids.

With BEVs, your stations are every 50-60 miles away, and you need 30-60m to charge. So how far you can go without refueling matters, and how fast you can refuel also matters.

Somehow they did not get this.

So next gen is going to be better for sure.
 

spwolf

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That's as much a problem with the lack of chargers as it is with the car. Lexus ICE cars for years have been able to show and navigate to gas stations on the screen, but I'm not aware of anyone who uses that functionality because it's usually not hard to find gas. So it's an important feature now, but it likely won't be in the future.

sure, plus there are many different charging networks. You will never have Tesla Superchargers every 1 mile.

Which is why in 2022, everyone figured out a way to help customer with this. That is just base functionality, without it you do not have functioning BEV.

And the fact that car right now shows NOTHING inside while charging, it just proofs it is yet not ready.
 

Sulu

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That's as much a problem with the lack of chargers as it is with the car. Lexus ICE cars for years have been able to show and navigate to gas stations on the screen, but I'm not aware of anyone who uses that functionality because it's usually not hard to find gas. So it's an important feature now, but it likely won't be in the future.
Isn't all of this charging station location information available on a maps app (e.g. Google Maps) or some other specialised app on a smartphone, which everyone carries these days, and then available through Apple CarPlay or Android Auto on the Lexus infotainment system?
 

NXracer

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Isn't all of this charging station location information available on a maps app (e.g. Google Maps) or some other specialised app on a smartphone, which everyone carries these days, and then available through Apple CarPlay or Android Auto on the Lexus infotainment system?
I was looking at their specialized bullet release, they seem to be implying the Toyota App will have that information and you can then upload that to the navigation directly. I guess bandaid fix, would just be easier to keep it integrated (before we jump, I assume this system will get OTA updates at the very least with that info).
 

LS500-18

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Isn't all of this charging station location information available on a maps app (e.g. Google Maps) or some other specialised app on a smartphone, which everyone carries these days, and then available through Apple CarPlay or Android Auto on the Lexus infotainment system?
Yes, I use PlugShare (app compatible with CarPlay).

I have drive BEV for 6 years. That service is the single best resource, but there are other charging networks and apps. With that said, driving any BEV is possible almost anywhere but takes research ahead of time to plan your route. Tesla has a good grasp on that with their network but other automakers are doing something similar. We are still in the BEV infancy times so it will take a little time for all manufacturers to get plug-and-charge and charge planning integrated into the software. Fortunately in most cases it should be do-able with a software update.
 

Sulu

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My opinion has changed. The CATL battery is not a second-rate battery, it is a third-rate battery (at least in Canada and snow-belt US states).

DC charging times are estimated based on ideal charging conditions. As temperatures decrease below 10 degrees Celsius (50 degrees Fahrenheit), charging time will increase significantly. For the BZ4X AWD model, charging may slow down more than other models in weather conditions below zero degrees Celsius (32 degrees Fahrenheit) and may not be possible when the temperature drops to around -20 degrees Celsius (-4 degrees Fahrenheit) and below. Drive battery conditions, charger specifications and DC charging fully more than twice per day also can negatively affect charging time.

If we Canadians want the AWD model, we are advised to shop down the block, at the Subaru dealer.
Incidentally, most would assume the Subaru Solterra, which features AWD as standard, would be in an identical situation to the BZ4X AWD. The reality is the Subaru is powered by the FWD BZ4X’s battery. This 71.4-kWh unit’s DC charging is not impacted by cold weather like the 72.8-kWh battery in the Toyota is. What’s more, the smaller pack is capable of 150-kilowatt charging speeds, while the larger is limited to 100 kilowatts. Finally, the Solterra can deliver an estimated range of over 220 miles (about 350 km).
 

NXracer

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Hey but did you know our EVs would be the most reliable in first 10 years of ownership?
 

Motor

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Levi

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Toyota arrives at the electric [...] party late[...]
No, the electric party has not even started. Hope it won't be cancelled with WWIII. Covid cancelled quite a lot of things.
 

spwolf

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No, the electric party has not even started. Hope it won't be cancelled with WWIII. Covid cancelled quite a lot of things.

It has quite started, hence Toyota scrabling to respond.

I mean sales of plugin cars in Europe this year are close to 30% in western europe.
 

LS500-18

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The electric party has barely started but it's still in the super early infancy stage. Toyota isn't late at all, the only thing they are missing out on right now is bragging rights and hype. Toyota will be just fine, all these gas car bans by 2035 or whatever is just politicians wet dreams right now... and I bought my first Tesla in 2015 LOL