The Next Generation of Lexus Through 2020

spwolf

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Yes, it will be the first product using the C application of Toyota's New Global Architecture, likely being designated GA-C like GA-L. Why haven't we seen UX prototypes for that matter. Should be expecting them in late July again, as Toyota seems to like deliberately expose testing of new models then?

UX like C-HR will likely be a slam dunk for Lexus just like it is for Toyota, at least everywhere but US. As long as it builds properly on good CHR base.
New engines will be interesting as well, i would guess it would be next gen 2.5l hybrid like in Camry, which would give it nice advantage over CHR and its Prius powertrain.

Not that CHR is light, but UX should not be that much heavier than it, since it is already quite premium unlike Rav4, which then required NX to gain a lot of weight to make it more luxury like. I cant wait to see it really, might be my next vehicle.
 

James

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UX like C-HR will likely be a slam dunk for Lexus just like it is for Toyota, at least everywhere but US. As long as it builds properly on good CHR base.
New engines will be interesting as well, i would guess it would be next gen 2.5l hybrid like in Camry, which would give it nice advantage over CHR and its Prius powertrain.

Not that CHR is light, but UX should not be that much heavier than it, since it is already quite premium unlike Rav4, which then required NX to gain a lot of weight to make it more luxury like. I cant wait to see it really, might be my next vehicle.
Why would the UX not be successful in the US? SUVs fly off the lots like crazy in the US. NX is extremely successful the UX should be just fine.
 

spwolf

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Why would the UX not be successful in the US? SUVs fly off the lots like crazy in the US. NX is extremely successful the UX should be just fine.

Read some CHR reviews from US mags and then from UK mags. Then you will see the difference.

In US, customer and press equates length with price. CHR has been compared with Fit often, and most reviewers mentioned how it is very expensive vehicle. I guess you can compare small suv sales with Rav4 and CRV sales as well.

On Toyota side of things, they expect CHR to sell 60k in USA and 120k in Europe... and in Europe, they have almost 4x smaller market share compared to the US. So you can see the differences there.
 

krew

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I report more from MAG-X, but for now just a snippet.
View attachment 2209
This is what MAG-X believes to be, the 240B design for the 2019 ES 300h, which they believe will replace the GS300h in the JDM.

Edit: Changed image placement

I have a photo of the ES/GS story, but will buy the magazine later today.

17759093_10154459577018059_693545495_o.jpg

I can't even imagine Lexus replacing the GS with the ES. The idea literally makes my mind turn off.

:bomb::bomb::bomb::skull:
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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I'm curious if they have anything relevant to say about the now JDM-only HS 250h's future in that little sidebar corner box in the photo above.
 

spwolf

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I have a photo of the ES/GS story, but will buy the magazine later today.

View attachment 2219

I can't even imagine Lexus replacing the GS with the ES. The idea literally makes my mind turn off.

:bomb::bomb::bomb::skull:

Let us know what they say... Quite possible that es300h might end up over 200hp and eawd, at least optional.
 

zeusus

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I have a photo of the ES/GS story, but will buy the magazine later today.

View attachment 2219

I can't even imagine Lexus replacing the GS with the ES. The idea literally makes my mind turn off.

:bomb::bomb::bomb::skull:
I thought it was confirmed the GS is staying and new model to come in a few years?
 

Andyl

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Well, it's got a BIG cult-following of people who love it. For what a pick-up is expected to do, it satisfies a lot of people. No, it is not going to ride like a Lexus LS or Mercedes S-Class (actually, the silky Dodge Ram comes closer to that LOL), but it has become Mr. Dependable in the world of full-size trucks.



They are two different cars. The ES is intentionally designed to be a more sedate-driving vehicle than the GS (look at the difference in their two primary-buyer groups). The ES, except for the beautifully-done wood steering wheel, also has more noticeable cost-cutting in the interior than the GS.
Yes, cost-cutting in ES is more evident than GS in the eyes of keen observers like us here.

To give a credit to Lexus, ES is packaged pretty well. A very comfortable environment with strong luxury feel.
 

Gecko

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As we wrap up the auto show season with New York and Shanghai, I started wondering what we'll see from Lexus over the 2017-2018 auto show season.

My random predictions are below, feel free to add yours:

Tokyo 2017: Production UX

LA 2017: RX L, RC refresh

NAIAS 2018: LC F

Chicago 2018: Refreshed GX?

Geneva 2018: UX hybrid?

New York 2018: ES

With the rumored introduction of the Hilux Surf back to Japan, I have a feeling we might see a heavily revised 4Runner and GX this fall/winter, possibly with the production Hilux Surf debuting in Tokyo? Not sure if 4Runner/GX will get an Auto Show introduction, but they could. Chicago would be a good show for that, but it seems late into 2018 for such an intro.
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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Does anybody know anything about the CT?
Per current rumor, CT will be discontinued this year, at least in North America. It may carry on in Japan, much as the HS sedan has long after being discontinued elsewhere. Europe could go either way.
 

spwolf

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Per current rumor, CT will be discontinued this year, at least in North America. It may carry on in Japan, much as the HS sedan has long after being discontinued elsewhere. Europe could go either way.

I think they will do them both, new CT and new UX, since CT is one of their best sellers in Europe even if it outdated now and makes little sense really (gotta be crazy not to buy C-HR for much less, with better equipment, interior, engine, handling, everything). But thats just opinion, not inside info.

We can see Lexus EU best sellers here:
http://newsroom.toyota.eu/toyota-mo...ontinue-to-surge-with-50-increase-in-q1-2017/

NX is not letting go even in 3rd year, big thing for Lexus since it is not established brand and sales often go down after 2-3 years of new model and something else shows up.

Question of CT is question of Lexus wanting to expand their sales or maximize profits. CT with UX powertrains would do good anywhere and I would think better than current CT when it came out.
 

Carmaker1

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Interesting update:

Seems that Toyota is moving NX production to Cambridge, Canada, starting much sooner in September 2019. So a redesigned NX arrives in 29 months, for the 2020 model year on TNGA-C. Still being developed under the 600X program code. Shockingly, our next NX design is already being frozen per Q2 2017 per 27 months lead time. The current model was frozen in mid-2012, roughly 2 1/2 years before it went on sale.

The next RX on TNGA-K is in development under the 760X program code, for the 2021 model year. TMMC Job #1 date just might be August 3, 2020, likely pointing towards October 2020 release. A facelifted RX, will debut next year in the meantime for MY2019. Design freeze seems to be due for Q2 2018.

On the Toyota end:

The TNGA-F Tundra is being developed under program code 954A and is scheduled start of production on August 3, 2020, for the 2021 model year. Design freeze is scheduled in Q1 2018. Styling is likely undergoing final design department approval, in midst of proposal selection.

The TNGA-F Toyota Tacoma, begins production in July 2022. Development is getting underway, ahead of an upcoming 2019 refresh.

The 370B TNGA-K Avalon, begins pilot production in February 2018 for the 2019 MY. Series production is not listed. Design freeze occurred in Q1 2016.

The next generation Highlander is being developed under 440X on a variation of TNGA-K, on schedule for November 25, 2019 start of production, for January 2020 launch. Design freeze process just concluded, as of the present in 2017. Wonder what it looks like?

The next RAV4 is being finished up under 320B program, with start of production set for November 1, 2018. Design freeze was in Q3 2016.

The current Sienna, known as XL30 and developed under 580L from 2005 to 2009, has been internally redesigned. That replacement in particular, is being developed under "580X" on TNGA-K and reaches design freeze in Q4 2017. Production begins March 2, 2020, for the 2021 model year. This explains the recent 2018MY refresh.

The TNGA-C 150B and 290B (Auris/iM?) Toyota Corolla begins production on April 1, 2019 and arrives in June 2019, for the 2020 model year. Final designs were frozen, in Q3 2016. (Not surprising, considering test mules last year).


have a look at the new posting by Krew in NEWS. It looks like the CT will continue and even on the new GAL platform. :)

I wouldn't say the GAL platform, but maybe TNGA-C and carded as GA-C for Lexus?
 

CIF

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Interesting update:

Seems that Toyota is moving NX production to Cambridge, Canada, starting much sooner in September 2019. So a redesigned NX arrives in 29 months, for the 2020 model year on TNGA-C. Still being developed under the 600X program code. Shockingly, our next NX design is already being frozen per Q2 2017 per 27 months lead time. The current model was frozen in mid-2012, roughly 2 1/2 years before it went on sale.

The next RX on TNGA-K is in development under the 760X program code, for the 2021 model year. TMMC Job #1 date just might be August 3, 2020, likely pointing towards October 2020 release. A facelifted RX, will debut next year in the meantime for MY2019. Design freeze seems to be due for Q2 2018.

On the Toyota end:

The TNGA-F Tundra is being developed under program code 954A and is scheduled start of production on August 3, 2020, for the 2021 model year. Design freeze is scheduled in Q1 2018. Styling is likely undergoing final design department approval, in midst of proposal selection.

The TNGA-F Toyota Tacoma, begins production in July 2022. Development is getting underway, ahead of an upcoming 2019 refresh.

The 370B TNGA-K Avalon, begins pilot production in February 2018 for the 2019 MY. Series production is not listed. Design freeze occurred in Q1 2016.

The next generation Highlander is being developed under 440X on a variation of TNGA-K, on schedule for November 25, 2019 start of production, for January 2020 launch. Design freeze process just concluded, as of the present in 2017. Wonder what it looks like?

The next RAV4 is being finished up under 320B program, with start of production set for November 1, 2018. Design freeze was in Q3 2016.

The current Sienna, known as XL30 and developed under 580L from 2005 to 2009, has been internally redesigned. That replacement in particular, is being developed under "580X" on TNGA-K and reaches design freeze in Q4 2017. Production begins March 2, 2020, for the 2021 model year. This explains the recent 2018MY refresh.

The TNGA-C 150B and 290B (Auris/iM?) Toyota Corolla begins production on April 1, 2019 and arrives in June 2019, for the 2020 model year. Final designs were frozen, in Q3 2016. (Not surprising, considering test mules last year).

Thanks for the update.

The models I'm most interested in...not a word yet. I'm still trying to find info on the next-gen Land Cruiser, Sequoia, 4Runner, and if there will be a next-gen GX or not.

Otherwise all of the above makes perfect sense, based on the various weird timelines some models are on, and the randomly timed refreshes we've been getting last few years.

Also if TNGA-F applies to both Tacoma and Tundra, that can only mean one thing, and almost fully confirms a hypothesis I've had; that TNGA-F is modular, like other TNGA variants in general.
 

Carmaker1

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Thanks for the update.

The models I'm most interested in...not a word yet. I'm still trying to find info on the next-gen Land Cruiser, Sequoia, 4Runner, and if there will be a next-gen GX or not.

Otherwise all of the above makes perfect sense, based on the various weird timelines some models are on, and the randomly timed refreshes we've been getting last few years.

Also if TNGA-F applies to both Tacoma and Tundra, that can only mean one thing, and almost fully confirms a hypothesis I've had; that TNGA-F is modular, like other TNGA variants in general.

You're welcome! Unfortunately seems that my newest sources of this information, mostly concern North American Toyota production and nothing more. Japanese development and production information is blockaded with a form of access I don't have, in not being a Japan-based supplier with very specific user access codes or part of Toyota's Aichi personnel. Trying to get around that in deciphering Japanese text as much as possible, makes that even more challenging. There is indeed other information I am leaving out, in it being a little questionable (Sequoia redesign) or too vague for me. I have a learned a lot as of Friday and Saturday though!

Like people tried to call the 2016 LX570 an "all-new" redesign, I am not convinced of a new 4Runner until late 2020 or even 2021. Although 2017 production began at Tahara in December 2016, no one heard much of anything until then officially as
production started. Back in 2009, although people saw spy shots that April, no one heard a lick more about it until September 2009 reveal, AFTER SOP in August 2009.

I had expected a minor-moderate refresh to tide things along on the same architecture, but considering no TSS by 12/31/2017, are they pushing it back to MY2019 instead in order to facilitate a MY2022 redesign? In that case, I actually want to see this TSS report/press release from last year, to be sure if it indeed referred to end of 2017 model year or that of 2017 calendar year instead. I keep hearing that the MY2018 is totally unchanged and feel uncertain.

The 2018 4Runner is called "Carryover", yet so is the 2018 Sequoia. Anyone with eyesight and wasn't born yesterday, will be able to see that the 2018 Sequoia definitely saw some form of changes over the 2007-2017 models. Yet the Tundra is counted as "Minor" and Camry as "New" (quite expected).

As for the GX not getting updated this year, it hardly makes sense to me. Back in 2007, both the Prado and GX got facelifts for MY 2008, 2 years after the N210 (N210 got minor update). They are supposed tied together, so if Prado gets updated, so does the GX? Why wouldn't this be the case. It isn't going away is it?

By August, we should know if it is being kept or not. Why do I say that? Hot weather and high altitude testing for a potential CUV replacement in MY 19 needs to be done and would appear by such a time frame. If one sees a large vehicle in Toyota MC pattern camouflage, then we know what we are looking at (unless they hide their testing). Highly unlikely, as even mules would've been running since last year.

Unless the idea is to introduce a heavily redone GX for Japan in late 2017, then stagger it out to early-mid 2018 for MY2019 in the US, I cannot make sense of no changes to the 2018 GX.

Also, the Land Cruiser 200 gets updated again this year for MY2018 and also the LX. Both another source and UZJ100GXR provided me this information, but he alerted me first of updated 200s. On a 4-year cycle of a major facelift, when such a light update is introduced midway (+2 years), that is essentially saying 2 more years are left for that generation. In 2019, a redesign will debut as expected and bring TNGA for MY2020.
 

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spwolf

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You're welcome! Unfortunately seems that my newest sources of this information, mostly concern North American Toyota production and nothing more.

IMHO, European Auris and worldwide Corolla are likely going to be 1yr early than their NA versions, as usual. I expect Auris unveil by the end of the year considering they did nothing to it in past 2 years and it is one of the European best sellers. Japanese RAV4 for WW might also come earlier, but not by one year.

Now I am more interested in models for us in Europe, like small crossover, Avensis and Verso... I wonder what will happen with Avensis and Verso.