The Lexus RZ Megathread (450e, 300e)

[Rydo]

I don’t think I’m being understood here.

Range figures were shared before, but entire debates and the decision whether to buy the car or not we’re not based on that because it’s the difference between spending 10 minutes filling a tank once in a day of driving or twice. It’s next to no real difference in real terms.

And so what I’m saying is all this microscopic focus on the number of miles you can achieve in a charge is the reason electric cars suck, because they shouldn’t really be something you even worry or care about, because it shouldn’t be a big deal. It should be oh well if it’s 200 miles I’ll pull in and fill up in 5 minutes and be in my way. But we all know it isn’t that, it’s not even close to being that.

 

[ssun30]

For that reason I would say an underappreciated specification will become increasingly relevant for future EV buyers: range charging rate.

Instead of a pure range figure and charging power figure, it shows how much range added per time of charge. It has unit in km/h or mph but not a unit of speed. A range charging rate of 200km/h means you gain 200km of range for each hour of charging. For reference this number is about 15000km/h for ICEV or 30000km/h for HEV.

For BEVs to be practical at massive scale this number needs to reach at least 2000km/h.

 

[Will1991]

Here goes a SUV size breakdown from Lexus:

Source: https://mag.lexus.co.uk/lexus-suv-sizes-explained/

I wasn't aware of it, but the RZ has a longer wheelbase than the RX!

Another thing, according to Lexus Europe, this car is FWD biased to have a bigger boot space. The 80kW rear motor was design to have a lower height, if the front 150kW motor was placed at the back, it would have a big impact to the boot space.

For comparasion:

-> 150kW front motor:

-> 80kW rear motor:

OT: It's almost funny how the UX is so compromised inside with only 50mm less on the wheelbase next to the NX.

 

[shizhi]

Here goes a SUV size breakdown from Lexus:

Source: https://mag.lexus.co.uk/lexus-suv-sizes-explained/

I wasn't aware of it, but the RZ has a longer wheelbase than the RX!

Another thing, according to Lexus Europe, this car is FWD biased to have a bigger boot space. The 80kW rear motor was design to have a lower height, if the front 150kW motor was placed at the back, it would have a big impact to the boot space.

For comparasion:

-> 150kW front motor:

-> 80kW rear motor:

OT: It's almost funny how the UX is so compromised inside with only 50mm less on the wheelbase next to the NX.

Because RX hasn't been updated yet.
Highlander, BZ4X, new RX, and RZ have the same wheelbase.

 

[sl0519]

Here goes a SUV size breakdown from Lexus:

Source: https://mag.lexus.co.uk/lexus-suv-sizes-explained/

I wasn't aware of it, but the RZ has a longer wheelbase than the RX!

Another thing, according to Lexus Europe, this car is FWD biased to have a bigger boot space. The 80kW rear motor was design to have a lower height, if the front 150kW motor was placed at the back, it would have a big impact to the boot space.

For comparasion:

-> 150kW front motor:

-> 80kW rear motor:

OT: It's almost funny how the UX is so compromised inside with only 50mm less on the wheelbase next to the NX.

I couldn't find where it says FWD biased...and no boot space mentioned either

 

[NXracer]

the BZ4X is also the same size as a highlander, hence the absolute unit of rear legroom

 

[mediumhot]

All-New Lexus RZ Experience | Lexus Europe

Experience the all-new Lexus RZ 450e. Lexus' first globally-available pure battery electric vehicle (BEV) model.

www.lexus.eu

Could anyone here give a shout to Lexus Marketing heads that this is one of the lowest quality 360s we've seen in a while. There are so many 3D preset product configurators out there that actually look decent for Unreal, Unity or even Keyshot. Take a look what Ford did for their GT, this was invite only configurator

 

[Gecko]

Having seen/sat in a BZ4x, it feels much more RAV4-sized... even with the same wheelbase, Highlander is a whole class and a half larger overall.

 

[spwolf]

Having seen/sat in a BZ4x, it feels much more RAV4-sized... even with the same wheelbase, Highlander is a whole class and a half larger overall.

even in the back?

But yes, keep in mind this is built for Europe and China. Highlander barely sells here, it is way too big.
We also like our front seats cozy and not have huge amounts of empty space, unlike american cars.

 

[Gecko]

even in the back?

But yes, keep in mind this is built for Europe and China. Highlander barely sells here, it is way too big.
We also like our front seats cozy and not have huge amounts of empty space, unlike american cars.

Yes. Second row on the Highlander is huge and spacious, and there is obviously the (small) third row as well.

 

[spwolf]

Yes. Second row on the Highlander is huge and spacious, and there is obviously the (small) third row as well.

what about difference between BZ4X and Rav4 in back row? Looks much better for bz4x in the pics.

 

[Gecko]

^Agree on that.

 

[ssun30]

1000mm rear legroom is more than Lexus ES/LS.

Another thing, according to Lexus Europe, this car is FWD biased to have a bigger boot space. The 80kW rear motor was design to have a lower height, if the front 150kW motor was placed at the back, it would have a big impact to the boot space.

Plenty of car manufacturers have 200+kW motors in the back without compromising boot space. The Mirai has the same exact motor just slightly less powerful and they had no problem integrating it.

It's just typical bad excuse from Lexus. By their logic nobody can build any EV with more than 300kW without making it unusable.

 

[Will1991]

I understant what you're saying and I agree with you, the competition is doing it without any major problem, but the Mirai isn't the best option, it has 321L of boot space... Not much more than a Yaris (286L) and smaller than a UX250h (438L).

 

[ssun30]

I understant what you're saying and I agree with you, the competition is doing it without any major problem, but the Mirai isn't the best option, it has 321L of boot space... Not much more than a Yaris (286L) and smaller than a UX250h (438L).

That's because of that giant battery pack. Mirai packaging is awful. They could have integrated everything into the floor but didn't.

 

[internalaudit]

What would be some good technical specs for Lexus' next BEV so it becomes at least competitive? Would matching or surpassing GV60 tech specs (besides fast charging and torque vecotring/e-LSD ) do?

Hyundai is making a killing on its new BEVs but it sounds like the Ionic 5 and EV6 have some issues right from the get go, specifically heating.

 

[sl0519]

What would be some good technical specs for Lexus' next BEV so it becomes at least competitive? Would matching or surpassing GV60 tech specs (besides fast charging and torque vecotring/e-LSD ) do?

Hyundai is making a killing on its new BEVs but it sounds like the Ionic 5 and EV6 have some issues right from the get go, specifically heating.

300ish hp for entry model that's fine, but it has to be 310 miles (500km) minimum of range.
Make another higher end model with 450 hp and above.
And perhaps a range booster model (or bigger battery pack option like Taycan), with around 90-100kwh, 435 miles (700km) of range.
Maybe by the time SSB arrives, none of these will be any issue lol.

 

[ssun30]

What would be some good technical specs for Lexus' next BEV so it becomes at least competitive? Would matching or surpassing GV60 tech specs (besides fast charging and torque vecotring/e-LSD ) do?

Hyundai is making a killing on its new BEVs but it sounds like the Ionic 5 and EV6 have some issues right from the get go, specifically heating.

UX-sized ("UZ"): 55kWh SR model with ~210mi EPA range, 150kW 2WD, 100kW DC charge; 71kWh LR model with ~270mi EPA range, 150kW 2WD/80+80kW AWD, 150kW DC charge. Weight should not exceed 1800kg.

NX-sized ("NZ"): 71kWh pack with ~250mi EPA range, 150kW 2WD/80+80kW AWD, 80kWh LR model with ~270mi EPA range, 150+80kW AWD, 150kW DC charge. Weight should not exceed 2100kg.

RX-sized ("RZ"): 80kWh SR with ~240mi EPA range, 150+80kW AWD, 150kW DC charge. 90kWh LR with ~270mi EPA range, 150+150kW AWD, 200kW+ DC charge. Weight should not exceed 2400kg.

LX-sized ("LZ"): 90kWh SR with ~240mi EPA range or 110kWh LR with ~280mi EPA range. Both with 150+150kW AWD, 200kW+ DC fast charge. Weight should not exceed 2700kg.

And these numbers are only meant to keep them competitive in 2022, not class-leading nor class-trailing. In two years these will already be obsolete. One thing they absolutely need to understand is periodic refreshing is very important in the BEV industry. The typical 4-year mid-cycle refresh and 8-year/12-year cycle redesign model is a no-go. Instead a Tesla-like approach of incremental upgrades every 2-3 years should be pursued.

That was what I expected after all the hype with LF-Z because it had very very impressive numbers. And my expectations are not unreasonable: I did not think a 300+mi EPA-rated range is optimal by today's technology and I explained why in another post.

GV60/EV6 are both over-speced to be impressive on paper, but they pack too much for their size. I expect their reliability and serviceability to be poor in the long term.

 

[internalaudit]

Test drive review: 2023 Lexus RZ 450e steers for China, and a US niche

The 2023 Lexus RZ 450e will compete with the likes of the Tesla Model Y, Genesis GV60, Kia EV6, and Hyundai Ioniq 5.

www.greencarreports.com

2023 Lexus RZ450e Prototype Drive: Does Lexus’ First Electric Vehicle Go Far Enough?

Figuratively, yes. Literally, no.

www.motortrend.com

 

[NXracer]

Damn the allocation rumor seems to make this a hot commodity at 4900 units for MY23. I assume most dealers will love the feeding frenzy.

They fixed a couple of issues with yoke:
-Its an optional extra so no radical change to disturb the lexus faithful (thats a big no no for the demo)
-It uses variable ratio steering by wire, soo much more intuitive for tight turns/.etc