The Lexus RZ 450e Megathread

[Will1991]

They should just call it 'NZ' to show its competitors as the EQC/Q4 e-tron/iX3.

I've just noticed, it has the same wheelbase from the bZ4X!

-> bZ4x:

-> RZ:

Even longer overhangs than the bZ4X and still without frunk.

Since it starts with a "R" I was also expecting a longer wheelbase... NZ would be on point!

 

[spwolf]

They really needed bigger battery for this.

 

[sl0519]

They really needed bigger battery for this.

Yea I couldn't quite understand the capacity part. Only a meager 71.4 kWh is unacceptable. Despite larger footprint, it's still the same size as the bZ4X. Most competitors have at least 90 kWh to begin with. I'm not quite sure what's the deal.

 

[ssun30]

My personal rant is about how underdelivered this car is compared to LF-Z concept. The thing is LF-Z could be produced using technology available in 2022, it would be hardly newsworthy but perfectly competitive against anything on the market coming in the next 1-2 years. Instead we got a luxury bZ4X that is competitive in 2018.

It would be like after showing LFA concept they actually build an IS-C with a generic 4.6 V8. Or after showing a fuel cell LS with L4 autonomous driving they build a facelift LS500h with uglier interior and partially enabled L2. Oh wait, that's exactly what they did.

If RZ sells in any meaningful number it will show just how powerful their reliability reputation is.

 

[Deusex]

My personal rant is about how underdelivered this car is compared to LF-Z concept. The thing is LF-Z could be produced using technology available in 2022, it would be hardly newsworthy but perfectly competitive against anything on the market coming in the next 1-2 years. Instead we got a luxury bZ4X that is competitive in 2018.

It would be like after showing LFA concept they actually build an IS-C with a generic 4.6 V8. Or after showing a fuel cell LS with L4 autonomous driving they build a facelift LS500h with uglier interior and partially enabled L2. Oh wait, that's exactly what they did.

If RZ sells in any meaningful number it will show just how powerful their reliability reputation is.

Imo, Lexus sales are mostly based only on reliability. But since electric cars are supposedly more reliable that gas powered vehicles, could Lexus sales be in truble in near future?

 

[Levi]

Looks good. Performance looks like IS 300h. I guess we'll have to wait 8 years before getting RZ 650e F Sport Performance, as we waited 8 years for IS 500 F Sport Performance.

Imo, Lexus sales are mostly based only on reliability. But since electric cars are supposedly more reliable that gas powered vehicles, could Lexus sales be in truble in near future?

BEVs are not more reliable, at least for they they have not proven to be.

 

[internalaudit]

Looks good. Performance looks like IS 300h. I guess we'll have to wait 8 years before getting RZ 650e F Sport Performance, as we waited 8 years for IS 500 F Sport Performance.



BEVs are not more reliable, at least for they they have not proven to be.

Yeah, Alfa Guilia going EV too but that doesn't mean the BEVs will not have electric gremlins plaguing it. With Toyota, at least we know BEV is much easier to build and program than its HEVs or PHEVs.

Just look at all the inconsistent complaints about Tesla vehicles on Tesla Motor Club, be it charging, driving distance, phantom leaks, etc.

 

[LS500-18]

BEVs are not more reliable, at least for they they have not proven to be.

I've owned two Model S's... never again. The cars never left me stranded but god did they need a mechanic every couple of months, something else was breaking. For shame because the driving experience is amazing and the app was great. I had a headlight replaced because the DRL burned out, charge port door replaced twice, rear hatch closing mechanism replaced, multiple door handle issues, steering wheel button broke, battery heater failed, rattle in front brake pads over bumps, front air struts replaced and later the noise came back, faulty high voltage junction box, lower control arms replaced, right mirror replaced because it was shaky, the list goes on... I eventually hit my breaking point and cut my losses. I sold them back before used car prices went to the moon.

I want another EV but I need as much range as possible because I'm in Canada (think north of North Dakota / Montana) so the DC charging infrastructure needs to be improved before I buy a non-Tesla. I love the direction Lexus is going here with BEV but the range is not wowing me, nor is the DC charging speed. But I understand the charging is likely due to longevity and resale down the road.

 

[internalaudit]

I've owned two Model S's... never again. The cars never left me stranded but god did they need a mechanic every couple of months, something else was breaking. For shame because the driving experience is amazing and the app was great. I had a headlight replaced because the DRL burned out, charge port door replaced twice, rear hatch closing mechanism replaced, multiple door handle issues, steering wheel button broke, battery heater failed, rattle in front brake pads over bumps, front air struts replaced and later the noise came back, faulty high voltage junction box, lower control arms replaced, right mirror replaced because it was shaky, the list goes on... I eventually hit my breaking point and cut my losses. I sold them back before used car prices went to the moon.

I want another EV but I need as much range as possible because I'm in Canada (think north of North Dakota / Montana) so the DC charging infrastructure needs to be improved before I buy a non-Tesla. I love the direction Lexus is going here with BEV but the range is not wowing me, nor is the DC charging speed. But I understand the charging is likely due to longevity and resale down the road.

Was the eight year warranty about to end on both MS?

A friend who bought a '16 65D new had spent $4,000 CAD a little after the four year warranty ended. MCU shutting off was one major issue but I think it was finally replaced two years ago.

I owned a Civic, still own an Accord, RAV4H and a used CT200h in Canada and have not spent more than $4,000 in out of warranty repairs since 2003.

Many poo poo on BEVs but if properly spec'd, could offer exhilarating drives for non-piston heads. Still waiting beyond DIRECT4 technology though

 

[qtb007]

I've owned two Model S's... never again. The cars never left me stranded but god did they need a mechanic every couple of months, something else was breaking. For shame because the driving experience is amazing and the app was great. I had a headlight replaced because the DRL burned out, charge port door replaced twice, rear hatch closing mechanism replaced, multiple door handle issues, steering wheel button broke, battery heater failed, rattle in front brake pads over bumps, front air struts replaced and later the noise came back, faulty high voltage junction box, lower control arms replaced, right mirror replaced because it was shaky, the list goes on... I eventually hit my breaking point and cut my losses. I sold them back before used car prices went to the moon.

I want another EV but I need as much range as possible because I'm in Canada (think north of North Dakota / Montana) so the DC charging infrastructure needs to be improved before I buy a non-Tesla. I love the direction Lexus is going here with BEV but the range is not wowing me, nor is the DC charging speed. But I understand the charging is likely due to longevity and resale down the road.

Every time someone says how reliable BEVs will be over ICE, I point out that while ICE and multispeed transmission is definitely more complicated than electric motors, all the other things are still points of failure. Out of the dozen cars I've owned over 40 cumulative years of driving between my wife and I, the cars that "broke me" were not powertrain related. It was a laundry list of gremlins, body integrity problems, interior problems, and electrical problems that could be on ICE or BEV.

 

[Will1991]

According to a Portuguese YouTube car channel from Portugal, that was present in the Barcelona launch, Lexus is positioning the RZ between the NX and RX.

While prices are unknown, they're talking about having a similar price to the NX

This makes me wonder, maybe we're getting that "R" from "RZ" the wrong way... Maybe this "R" comes from coupe (See RC) and not from big SUV (See RX).

Also, Toyota did something similar with the bZ4X, it's priced similar to the RAV4 PHV.

 

[NXracer]

My opinion of the BZ is the same as the RZ, great for those wanting an LEXUS EV, but not really to shock your pants off if you already are in the EV space.

Im considering it, but i want to see where the pricing chips lie. If its going to command a 60k figure price tag.

 

[LS500-18]

Was the eight year warranty about to end on both MS?

A friend who bought a '16 65D new had spent $4,000 CAD a little after the four year warranty ended. MCU shutting off was one major issue but I think it was finally replaced two years ago.

I owned a Civic, still own an Accord, RAV4H and a used CT200h in Canada and have not spent more than $4,000 in out of warranty repairs since 2003.

Many poo poo on BEVs but if properly spec'd, could offer exhilarating drives for non-piston heads. Still waiting beyond DIRECT4 technology though

The bumper-to-bumper warranty was only 4 years, I did not go for the extended warranty, but I did own the first S for 5 years so had about 4-5 out of warranty repairs. The extended warranty was a lot of money (I think $7,000) and I had a full check-up before it went out of warranty for about $900 so I rolled the dice. I didn't plan on keeping that car past about 5-6 years so I figured the extra $ of the extended warranty wasn't worth it to me. I could tell by that 4 year mark that many systems in the car were obsolete and I would not own an older Tesla, for sure beyond the 8 year mark.

I forgot that the glovebox hinge broke and the steering shaft U-joint needed replacement just after I went out of warranty. I also had a key fob fail and both charging cables fail (one for each car). I am still forgetting a bunch of things that broke...

My wife's RAV4 Prime essentially has Direct4. The AWD in EV mode in the R4P is just as good as the Tesla. Direct4 is just a marketing term, it does not get me excited in the slightest. Same with X-mode. For normal driving those are meaningless terms, if I off-roaded maybe I'd think differently. I've driven EV AWD for 7 years now...

 

[internalaudit]

Yeah. DIRECT4 is shuffling power between front and rear axles but not from one wheel to the opposing one. It will make cars feel more RWD-like but it is still not torque vectoring.

Maybe the RZ has brake-based TV, if the Solterra and bZ4X AWD have that already. Or maybe not LOL.

 

[spwolf]

Charg

My wife's RAV4 Prime essentially has Direct4. The AWD in EV mode in the R4P is just as good as the Tesla. Direct4 is just a marketing term, it does not get me excited in the slightest. Same with X-mode. For normal driving those are meaningless terms, if I off-roaded maybe I'd think differently. I've driven EV AWD for 7 years now...

that is because you dont need it at all, so you dont care about it. But it is not the same.

 

[spwolf]

My opinion of the BZ is the same as the RZ, great for those wanting an LEXUS EV, but not really to shock your pants off if you already are in the EV space.

Im considering it, but i want to see where the pricing chips lie. If its going to command a 60k figure price tag.

problem is going to be battery size and thus the range.

Performance seems to be just fine, 5.6s 0-100kmh stated in Europe is good. It will be likely even less in real life.
FWD bias? That is what NX/RX customers like. So that is fine.

But 400km of range vs competitors doing 500km-550km? It is a huge difference.
This is not a city car, even though it matters there too.

They should have put a minimum of 80kwh battery, and 90kwh would have shown ambition to match competitors.

All the Japanese companies are being stupid, Mazda with their CX-30 and Honda with Honda e, nobody is buying those cars because range in terrible and it is not what market wants. Honda e looks beautiful in every other way.

This looks awesome, and I am sure Lexus is trying to position it as 2nd car in the family, so why would you ever need more?

Again, because they dont drive EVs, they dont understand the market.

Otherwise, everything looks acceptable, even 150kw charging is fine, it is not awesome but it is fine if it charges car in 30m to 80%. Peak power does not matter, it is sustaining that load over full charging range.

In most EVs, charging rate starts dropping after 50%, so even if you are at 350kw charger, at 60% you might be charging at 130kw, and at 82% you are at 50kw. That 350kw to 150kw difference is used only between 0% and 30% at best.

 

[spwolf]

Also, how do you build something mostly for Europe and give it 160kmh top speed? I am sure final drive ratio makes 313hp perform like way more but in Europe, 160kmh for luxury car?

Are we joking?

 

[qtb007]

The lack of a big battery only matters if the price doesn't reflect the smaller battery.

My pathologist brother wants an EV. He is fine with 220-250 mile range because they don't take his BMW sportwagon on family trips anyway. They take his wife's Highlander hybrid platinum that has way more space. Even when he switches to BEV, they will take the gas vehicle on trips because doesn't require finding a fast charger after an overnight stay at my parents and, again, the Highlander will be more spacious with his 2 young daughters. He'd need ~400 miles range to not stop at a fast charger for that trip but he's unwilling to spend $80k for that 400 mi range when he already has a perfectly good road trip vehicle. He's currently looking at the Solterra, bZ4X, iD4, Polestar 2, and a number of other smaller EV crossovers.

 

[Levi]

Also, how do you build something mostly for Europe and give it 160kmh top speed? I am sure final drive ratio makes 313hp perform like way more but in Europe, 160kmh for luxury car?

Are we joking?

Europe has planned from some year in the very near future to limit cars to 160 kmh. I think Volvo already does that.

 

[spwolf]

The lack of a big battery only matters if the price doesn't reflect the smaller battery.

My pathologist brother wants an EV. He is fine with 220-250 mile range because they don't take his BMW sportwagon on family trips anyway. They take his wife's Highlander hybrid platinum that has way more space. Even when he switches to BEV, they will take the gas vehicle on trips because doesn't require finding a fast charger after an overnight stay at my parents and, again, the Highlander will be more spacious with his 2 young daughters. He'd need ~400 miles range to not stop at a fast charger for that trip but he's unwilling to spend $80k for that 400 mi range when he already has a perfectly good road trip vehicle. He's currently looking at the Solterra, bZ4X, iD4, Polestar 2, and a number of other smaller EV crossovers.

Rz450e is not going to be cheap. Your brother will have many options at similar price.