The Future of the IS Thread

[Ian Schmidt]

Wool has a reputation in the US of making people itch. Even if you're OK with it, your passengers might not be.

I'll never understand why Lexus (Luxury Exportation for United States) denies their reference market luxurious features like these, something you would expect from a premium car.

Team One insists "Lexus" is a legal-trouble-saving vowel swap from their originally chosen name "Lexis", and not an acronym.

 

[Sadman]

Tahara = NuLuxe.

Ok thanks, I had the right intuition.

I would never ever buy a premium car equipped with mandatory fake leather when I can upgrade to real leather in non premium cars such as the Mazda 6 (Nappa leather) or Kia Stinger.

In my humble opinion it's a stupid marketing choice as they're probably doing this because they want to keep the final price "low", so being not forced to offer - like the German competition - multiple choices at the same time (cloth, fake leather, 5 grades of increasing quality leather, 3 grades of premium semi aniline leather, leather+alcantara, etc.) give them an edge, I suppose (?).

Then again, my mind can't process this fact that in Europe we can have an IS equipped with real Lexus high quality leather and the same car in the US can be had only with NuLuxe, which no matter what the marketing says it's still no real leather and therefore it's something cheap in a premium car.

Team One insists "Lexus" is a legal-trouble-saving vowel swap from their originally chosen name "Lexis", and not an acronym.

I didn't know this, however the acronym still makes sense since the US is the reference market for the brand.

 

[RAL]

Team One insists "Lexus" is a legal-trouble-saving vowel swap from their originally chosen name "Lexis", and not an acronym.

According to the 'father' of Lexus, J Davis Illingworth, here is the story of how Flagship 1 (F1) got its' name. Alexis became Lexus ...

https://godofhope.net/2016/05/09/4-flagship-1-gets-name/

 

[GNS]

According to the 'father' of Lexus, J Davis Illingworth, here is the story of how Flagship 1 (F1) got its' name. Alexis became Lexus ...

https://godofhope.net/2016/05/09/4-flagship-1-gets-name/

This is so good, Alexis play RC-F Coupe.


(sorry... I couldn't resist)

 

[spwolf]

Ok thanks, I had the right intuition.

I would never ever buy a premium car equipped with mandatory fake leather when I can upgrade to real leather in non premium cars such as the Mazda 6 (Nappa leather) or Kia Stinger.

It is indeed due to Toyota Production System where they are managing inventory better so low options get erased.
Honestly, I would do it like in the USA if it meant they could lower their prices in Europe .

 

[flexus]

https://bestcarweb.jp/news/59056
For you who don't speak Japanese:
-Bestcar has heard rumors that IS will be equipped with I6 turbo by BMW.
-Toyota BMW co-operation will continue.
-They want to make IS more sportier
-Lexus is rearraging their sedan lineup
-Bodysize won't differ much and it will be build TNGA platform similar to Crown. FR layout.
-Base will be 2.5l hybrid also 2.0 turbo and newly engineered 2.4l turbo (maybe same as in new Legacy?)
-They will add I6 in between ISF and IS2.4T
-I6 same as in Supra different from M3
-Weight around 1540kg
-GR tuning of Lexus models
-5L V8 will be discontinued because of fuel insuffiency compared to german3
-ISF will have TTV6 same as in LS
-Next gen IS will be out in 2021 and IS F sport (I6) in 2022
Specs:

 

[Will1991]

BMW I6? That’s even more strange as IS F will be TTV6 from Lexus, a detuned version would be much better choice for Lexus...
Even BMW giving their engine to a direct competitor makes no sense.

 

[flexus]

BMW I6? That’s even more strange as IS F will be TTV6 from Lexus, a detuned version would be much better choice for Lexus...
Even BMW giving their engine to a direct competitor makes no sense.

It's just speculation. Other option is to put the engine into a Mark X GR. But definetely they are working more powerful model than IS350

 

[Gecko]

Why would they need a 2.0T, 2.4T and 3.0T (especially sourced from BMW), then a 3.5L TT? This is making no sense to me and I hope the rumor of a BMW motor is dead wrong.

If Lexus starts using old BMW parts like Infiniti is using old Mercedes stuff, I will be fully "out" on this brand.

 

[ssun30]

This just makes zero sense when they are investing in their own powertrain so heavily. Integrating a non-native Inline-6 motor which is going to a very small portion of vehicles is just not worth the extra effort (95% of sales are going to be turbo-4s and hybrids). It should be very clear to Lexus at this moment that everyone is abandoning the 'intermediate grade six cylinder' previously occupied by the IS350, 335i, and the likes. It's just not lucrative enough for the amount of effort. They are not selling at all in Europe and China, and they are losing to the more expensive 'performance lite' segment in US.

The speculators should have more common sense. They think this is as simple as doing aftermarket engine swaps. The Supra had to use a BMW motor just for the sake of 'legacy'. Then again 'rumors' said three years ago the Corolla is going to get a BMW I3.

If Lexus starts using old BMW parts like Infiniti is using old Mercedes stuff, I will be fully "out" on this brand.

Lexus is obviously not in that situation. I don't know what led to Nissan's situation today, but their powertrain development has been so restricted in recent times. The VC-T is very impressive but the technology might simply not be cheap enough to spread across the lineup, forcing them to outsource their mainstream engines.

 

[spwolf]

This just makes zero sense when they are investing in their own powertrain so heavily. Integrating a non-native Inline-6 motor which is going to a very small portion of vehicles is just not worth the extra effort (95% of sales are going to be turbo-4s and hybrids). The speculators should have more common sense. They think this is as simple as doing aftermarket engine swaps.

The Supra had to use a BMW motor just for the sake of 'legacy', which was a poor move.

indeed, it makes no sense... well lets hope that pics are somewhat accurate, it looks good:

p.s. again 2.4l turbo that is replacing GR, and few days ago again I saw mentions of 1.6l 3cly turbo with 240-250hp in Japanese media, related to Corolla.

 

[ssun30]

I'm getting increasingly concerned with rumors that point to the IS not growing in size. While the lack of interior space is not the sole reason IS sales have been failing, it is definitely a major area remains to be improved. Again I believe last-gen Mark X is the minimum size for the new IS to stay competitive.

But I won't be complaining too much if their mainstream trim is going to weigh only 1,580kg. That would be some really impressive weight savings on their part, although I won't believe it until I see it.

 

[GNS]

https://bestcarweb.jp/news/59056
For you who don't speak Japanese:
-Bestcar has heard rumors that IS will be equipped with I6 turbo by BMW.
-Toyota BMW co-operation will continue.
-They want to make IS more sportier
-Lexus is rearraging their sedan lineup
-Bodysize won't differ much and it will be build TNGA platform similar to Crown. FR layout.
-Base will be 2.5l hybrid also 2.0 turbo and newly engineered 2.4l turbo (maybe same as in new Legacy?)
-They will add I6 in between ISF and IS2.4T
-I6 same as in Supra different from M3
-Weight around 1540kg
-GR tuning of Lexus models
-5L V8 will be discontinued because of fuel insuffiency compared to german3
-ISF will have TTV6 same as in LS
-Next gen IS will be out in 2021 and IS F sport (I6) in 2022
Specs:
View attachment 3173

Yay to recognizing that the IS needs to be made sportier, boo to the BMW engine rumor. There is zero chance that a BMW unit could be made reliable enough to meet Lexus standards.

 

[Gecko]

This render looks AWESOME!

 

[GNS]

This render looks AWESOME!

Agreed. The Nike swoosh is gone, which ruined that part of the 3IS for me.

 

[flexus]

Does anyone have info about this 2.4T engine mentioned? I am not familiar with TMC engines my guessing is the new Legacy engine since Toyota owns 17% of Subaru but will they use a boxer engine? Specs for 2.4T are 260HP almost same as IS200.

 

[spwolf]

Does anyone have info about this 2.4T engine mentioned? I am not familiar with TMC engines my guessing is the new Legacy engine since Toyota owns 17% of Subaru but will they use a boxer engine? Specs for 2.4T are 260HP almost same as IS200.

it most certainly wont be subaru engine... it has been rumored for a long time as replacement for 3.5l GR NA engine... so expect something like 300hp.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

The Best Car Web article also includes this rear 3/4 rendering:

Now for some commentary:

- Color me deeply skeptical about that rumor that the BMW inline 6 is going into the next IS. Besides all the valid reasons posted above that this is NotGonnaHappen, keep in mind that the GA-L architecture is kinda-sorta front-mid-engined, with the engine's center of mass falling behind the front axle line. Throw a long inline 6 into the mix, and you're going to squeeze interior room (particularly rear legroom) to an absurd degree.

- The rumored 2850mm (112.2") wheelbase is 20mm/0.8" shorter than the LC coupe, currently the shortest of the GA-L/TNGA-N trio (LC, Toyota Crown15, 5LS). Again, I don't see that realistically happening. The key question is whether 4IS's wheelbase will match the 2870mm/113" of the LC or the latest Crown's 2920mm/115".

- The 4IS's rumored 4700mm (185") overall length is 35mm/1.3" longer than 3IS. Its 1820mm (71.7") overall width is 10mm (0.4") wider than 3IS. The 1420mm (55.9") overall height is similarly 10mm/0.4" lower than its predecessor.

Does anyone have info about this 2.4T engine mentioned? I am not familiar with TMC engines my guessing is the new Legacy engine since Toyota owns 17% of Subaru but will they use a boxer engine? Specs for 2.4T are 260HP almost same as IS200.

it most certainly wont be subaru engine...

Agreed. The fact that Subaru's latest turbocharged engine (the FA24F 2.4-liter flat four from the Ascent and upcoming 7th-gen Legacy) and Toyota/Lexus' rumored 2.4-liter inline 4 turbo share the same displacement is sheer coincidence. I'd venture a guess that the latter engine, if it comes to fruition, is a derivative of the A25A-FKS 2.5-liter 4 from the latest Toyota Camry and RAV4 with thicker cylinder linings (to better withstand the rigors of boost) accounting for the reduced displacement. Audi, for one, has done this in the past with its supercharged sixes (3.0-liter boosted / 3.2-liter naturally aspirated). In other words, an A24A-FTS.

 

[Gecko]

So... debut in 2020 as a 2021, then the F Sport coming a year later in 2022? I know it's all rumors at this point, but if the regular IS lineup is all 4cylinder, be it 2.0T, 2.4T or 2.5L hybrid, then I wonder if there is some validity in the rumor of an F Sport car having a bigger engine option, similar to A4/S4 and C300/C43 AMG?

It's hard to even plot out what the lineup or engines could look like without some idea of what we should expect from the rumored 2.4L I4. Single turbo? twin turbo?

I could see an "IS 300" base car with 2.0T single turbo, and then an "IS 400" with the 2.4L twin turbo as an upmarket option... or I could just see one engine option for USA being 2.4L single turbo with something like 285 hp.

It would be cool to see them do an IS 500 F Sport with V35A-FTS as well as a V8 IS F, but I am not sure Lexus is really investing or trying to do "more" with any of their sedans for the foreseeable future.

 

[Gecko]

Another thing: A25A-FKS has received a fair amount of flak for being rough and unrefined in both Rav4 and Camry. If they are going to move this engine into the Lexus lineup in some way, I hope there are plans to make it more refined.