Tesla - Brand Perception/Opinions

Will1991

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Yes you nailed it. I had Teslas from 2015-2021 and just had enough of the **** quality needing repairs way too often. Now have a RAV4 Prime and Lexus ES300h. Would rather be driving Teslas again but their quality is poor, customer service is lacking, service is much worse than dealerships, the cars don't look overly good other than the S, etc. Basically I want some of the Tesla tech (app) and the driving experience but with none of the other BS that goes along with owning a Tesla.

I would much rather drive like an Audi Etron GT or similar but at the end of the day the non-Tesla DC charging network really sucks. We get real winter and especially around Xmas the chargers quit because it's -30C.

I am overjoyed that Tesla is imploding right now, I feel vindicated for the **** I went through and the BS that Elon spewed for years that stupid people believed. I would like to see Elon in jail and Tesla go bankrupt but I know neither of those will happen.

I don't want Tesla to fail as they managed to show that BEV's are viable and they managed to keep everyone on their toes to improve their products on range, performance, connectivity and charging speed... And I think they will keep pushing other OEM's as they should be going for price vs. specs combination.
But I do would love to see them starting to act more professionally, to announce real targets of R&D, to improve their weaknesses (mainly build issues on earlier models).

If you read up on the /r/electricvehicles, the public electric charging infrastructure is turning out to be a complete clusterpluck, and virtually useless in the cold weather. It will likely get even worse as things age.

Seems like only Tesla has the competence to provide adequate charging network, and while their cars are essentially poorly built Sentra level econoboxes, they are the most viable for many years to come.

Specially at that price point, it’s impossible to compete with the 3/Y in a spreadsheet (range, power, charging)… Of course, if you want something with a better construction there’re a ton of option.

you have to understand - public charging infrastructure is better than ever before. So it was worse before. Problems are bigger than that specific new charger from EA that had problems charging in really low temps, quite often you will simply not know if charger you are going to actually works or not. Especially if you are looking for newer >150kw chargers.

It is similar in Europe as well, you have to have 7 apps to check status of various chargers and navigate there manually since nothing is connected to your car, and your car knows ****.

Unless you have a Tesla. In Europe where I live, Tesla just added other public chargers to their nav and will navigate you there if better than Tesla SC.

Both build quality and autopilot are way better than what they were 1,2,5 years ago too.

I think it is simple enough - only EV manufacturers are EV manufacturers, and everyone else just pretends for now.

This is true, the way Tesla managed to integrate the SUC network in the GPS is clearly the way to go!
I don’t get how in 2022/3 and it’s still a struggle to use the public networks.

you want people to go to jail because of "sociopolitical issues he is actively pushing"? People dont go to jail if you dont like them, sorry, maybe in North Korea, and only if your name is Kim Jong.

I do agree he either needs to let go of twitter or tesla, because negative light on him makes people dislike associated companies. Also his eccentricity and no person sparred way he runs his businesses, does not really lend itself to public light. Not to mention that Twitter is not going to change a world, one way or another, unlike his other companies.

At this moment I think Elon should leave Tesla no matter what… All the delays and missed deadlines aren’t acceptable in a company... I’ve never understood how people were paying so much for TSLA…
 

spwolf

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At this moment I think Elon should leave Tesla no matter what… All the delays and missed deadlines aren’t acceptable in a company... I’ve never understood how people were paying so much for TSLA…

He built crazy good business, crazy manufacturing that nobody can match. For all of AP faults, it is massively improved system YoY and easily the best out there. Let alone rest of the car systems.

I dont own TSLA nor I care about owning TSLA, but he built something nobody else has. There is no chance of Tesla actually failing anymore, it is just the question of how much money are they going to make and how fast are they growing.

Tesla is only industry disruptor that survived ever since Toyota came along some 60 years ago. Next step could be BYD, but BYD focuses on TMC way more than Tesla. ie that price to quality ratio that nobody else is matching right now. Their OS sux, their AP does not exist, it is all about basics, not desirability like Tesla. Every other EV startup is trying to copy Tesla which is super hard 10 years later, but BYD is trying to copy TMC, just in EV space.
 

Och

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In a sense Elon is doing God's work by applying a bit of natural selection to the people who severely lack in common sense. Those foolish enough to seriously buy into his BS deserve to part with their money. It is utterly hilarious to watch. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

spwolf

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Quantify or qualify this however you can.



This is beyond absurd. Imagine just casually hand waving away the entire industry's history like this.

huh? Tell me of a single new car company in past how many years that is selling 1m cars per year?

Does not exist.

Tesla and now BYD are first new car companies in decades that managed to sell >1m vehicles per year.

Very simple like that.

Outside of those 2, newest members of 1 million club started in 1950s or 1960s?

I get it, you hate Elon Musk, one of millions. Does not change what he did.
 

IS-SV

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In Q4 2022 alone, Tesla will likely set another company sales record, and deliver/sell in excess of 400K units.
Financials (and gross margins) are strong by automotive industry standards, despite noise and stock price plunge, but stock price got way way ahead of itself so its about time.
 

spwolf

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Interesting video.


yeah, Tesla works well with crazy low temps, afterall it is best selling brand in Norway.

While he tested what happens if he freezes his car, if he just clicked on navigate to charger, his car would have prewarmed enough for it to really get charging going quite fast if not even instant.

For me personally, my fast 180kw charger is some 1 mile from me, but even pre-heating for 1 mile means my charge will start at 140kw, while not preheating in winter it will start at 40ish kw. Not extreme weather like that though, just few degrees under freezing.

In any case, pre-heating battery is super important and quite automatic as long as you click on charger.
 

LS500-18

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yeah, Tesla works well with crazy low temps, afterall it is best selling brand in Norway.
The battery heater failed on my Tesla and it gave no errors or warnings. That resulted in many instances of not being able to charge when it was cold. I even phoned Tesla back when you could phone them for support and they couldn't see any issue (now you have to use the app/chat). Long story short I would have to go drive the car (bag on it) for 10 mins and then come back and plug into the charger, but I've already lost time and range so it just further delayed my travels.

After my warranty expired they noticed errors in the logs when I reported the issue again. Their excuse was they could not find record of my previous phone call because they updated their system so I paid for a bunch of parts and it was about 2.5 weeks to fix it.

There is a lot of babysitting and extra tasks you need to do if you want to drive an EV in real cold. You need to plan your trip in the sense that you need to charge the battery after your drive and not in the morning before you leave. You need to know where the backup chargers are in case of issues. You need to be very aware of the wind direction and usually drive slow. Most of my winter driving was 90 to 100 km/h whereas the speed limit is 110.

Now that we have a Lexus hybrid and RAV4 Prime I love being able to drive (ahem) 120 km/h in the dead of winter and it's -30C and not worry in the tiniest if I'll actually make it to my next charging stop. As an added bonus it doesn't take 1hr+ to "fill up".

EVs do work in the cold but it's nothing like driving a gas car. You can't expect to just stop for 15 mins and be on your way. Norway is a unique "edge" case and not representative of reality in North America.
 
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Och

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yeah, Tesla works well with crazy low temps,

What? From the video it's absolutely awful in low temps, not acceptable by any merit.


afterall it is best selling brand in Norway.

Because a) it is heavily subsidized, and b) most of Norway's population is near the coast, whether the climate is very mild due to the Gulf Stream.
 

Och

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EVs do work in the cold but it's nothing like driving a gas car. You can't expect to just stop for 15 mins and be on your way. Norway is a unique "edge" case and not representative of reality in North America.

Places where people actually live in Norway have much milder winters than most of the northern US, and nowhere near as bad as Canada.
 

spwolf

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What? From the video it's absolutely awful in low temps, not acceptable by any merit.




Because a) it is heavily subsidized, and b) most of Norway's population is near the coast, whether the climate is very mild due to the Gulf Stream.

Did you watch the video or skipped most of it?

Kyle froze his tesla on purpose, and didn't not specifically turn in battery preconditioning to make sure he has worst case scenario.

He it mentioned several times in the video. He could have just click on navigate to SC and none of this would happen but that was not the point of video.
 

spwolf

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Places where people actually live in Norway have much milder winters than most of the northern US, and nowhere near as bad as Canada.

It still gets pretty cold there, even in Oslo. And Norway has 85% ev penetrqtion, people drive them in worst scenarios too.
 
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The unpaywall:
LUXESALES-MAIN_i.gif
BLOOMBERG
A Tesla dealership in Colma, Calif., in January 2022. Tesla ended BMW’s three-year reign over the U.S. luxury market in 2022 as it ratcheted up output and discounted some models.
An American automaker wears the U.S. luxury sales crown for the first time in nearly a quarter century.
After being bested by just 23,244 vehicles in 2021, Tesla grabbed the luxury sales throne from BMW — thumping the German automaker with a 158,612-vehicle lead last year, according to Automotive News Research & Data Center estimates. Austin-based Tesla does not break out sales by region or country. Mercedes-Benz placed third, followed by Lexus, Audi and Cadillac. Tesla delivered an estimated 491,000 vehicles in the U.S. last year, up 44 percent, and crossed 1 million deliveries globally.
It's been a swift rise for Tesla from nearly-bankrupt startup to sales juggernaut in a little over a decade.

How key luxury brand sales fared in 2022​

Tesla: 491,000*
BMW: 332,388
Mercedes-Benz: 286,764
Lexus: 258,704
Audi: 186,875
Cadillac: 134,726
Acura: 102,306
Volvo: 102,038
*Automotive News Data Center estimate
The paradigm has shifted with electric vehicle sales dominating the luxury segment, said Tyson Jominy, vice president of data and analytics at J.D. Power.
"Not only do luxury buyers want EVs, but the one that only sells EV is now the sales leader," Jominy told Automotive News.
Tesla's sales sweep sends a message to the industry: "If you want to be at the top of the luxury segment, you've got to beat Tesla, and you've got to do it with EVs," Jominy said.

Related Article​


Column: Yes, Tesla is a luxury brand
Change of guard
Tesla brought BMW's three-year reign over the luxury market to an end as it ratcheted up production and discounted some models.
Overall, U.S. luxury sales dipped in 2022, while the broader market declined about 8 percent.
Porsche Cars North America is expected to report fourth-quarter U.S. sales on Thursday.
U.S. vehicle registration data, a lagging proxy for vehicle sales, showed Tesla with a 124,786-vehicle lead over its nearest luxury competitor through October.
Last year, BMW delivered 332,388 sedans and crossovers in the U.S., down 1.3 percent. Crossovers and an expanding fleet of all-electric models powered sales at the German automaker. U.S.-built light trucks accounted for more than 60 percent of BMW sales last year, while the brand's three BEV models made up about 4.7 percent of U.S. sales.
"We see very strong demand for EVs," BMW of North America sales boss Shaun Bugbee told Automotive News in October. "Our gate is really our limitation on volume right now in terms of supply."
Despite lingering production challenges, the automaker said its Spartanburg, S.C., assembly plant — BMW's largest in the world — achieved its second-highest annual output last year.

Related Article​


Market slides in 2022; Dec. SAAR tops forecasts; GM reclaims sales crown
Competition coming fast
With high-performance vehicles and CEO Elon Musk's cult of personality, Tesla has parlayed first-mover advantage in the EV space into a formidable market share.
Through October, Tesla commanded nearly two-thirds of the EV segment in the U.S., more than the rest of the industry combined, according to registration data tracked by Experian.
Keeping that lead will be more challenging as industry giants from Ford to Volkswagen electrify their fleets and build networks of billion-dollar battery and assembly plants.
In the first 10 months of 2022, legacy automakers and non-Tesla startups saw an 81 percent surge in EV registrations. Tesla registrations, meanwhile, rose 50 percent, Experian reported.
Contenders
Mercedes-Benz made a late rally to overtake Lexus for a podium finish in 2023.
The German automaker delivered 286,764 luxury vehicles in 2022, an increase of 3.9 percent. It was one of just four major luxury brands, along with Tesla, Cadillac and Genesis, to post sales gains last year.
Mercedes' fourth-quarter deliveries surged 21 percent, fueled by the launch of three EQ all-electric models at the end of 2022.
The brand also focused on driving sales of high-end models, such as the S-Class and AMG, which accounted for 29 percent of deliveries.
"That was very positive on the profitability levels, for us and for our dealers," Mercedes-Benz USA CEO Dimitris Psillakis told Automotive News.
Tight new-vehicle supplies squeezed Lexus last year. The Japanese brand delivered 258,704 vehicles last year, a 15 percent slide from 2021, enough for No. 4.
At times midyear, Lexus' vehicle supply on dealer lots was measured in hours, not days, according to monthly inventory reports.
"On average, there is probably about a three-month wait" for new Lexus vehicles, depending on model, brand boss Dejuan Ross said, noting wait times can range from two months to "over 18 months" for the LX.
Swedish automaker Volvo's U.S. sales slid 16 percent last year to 102,038. Volvo cited supply chain challenges and production slowdowns caused by component shortages and COVID-related lockdowns in China.
Volvo's EV sales surged last year as the automaker seeks to go all-electric by 2023. In 2022, the brand's Recharge models — vehicles with fully electric or plug-in hybrid powertrains — accounted for 27.4 percent of sales, with BEVs at 7.2 percent, up 22.3 and 14.3 percent, respectively.
 

Levi

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Tesla is not luxury, no way around that. More so, I think luxury brands will disappear. High-end, yes, but Tesla is not either yet.
 

CRSKTN

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Guys i just splurged on a sick luxury vehicle lmkwyt
Bit pricey for sure but its an EV and like most Teslas hauls a large volume of human produced waste around sustainably.

Screenshot_20230112_093140_Drive.jpg

Luxury != expensive

The Lucid Air is much more a luxury vehicle to me.

Cmon, we see terrible, overpriced first gen tech every little while.
This market will mature.
Remember first generation Plasma TVs? They were like 40k and terrible.
 
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^ Congrats on your new gig and rig!
First day on the job!
FOfbhyXN8di8zGYbQh6lu3SNZ8A=.gif
 
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