I dont get which review out of 500 posted, including one by @krew, made you think that ES is still a boat.
I have read and viewed at least 50 reviews, probably more, and I have yet to see a single one that says that ES handles like old generation, like a boat.
......
I don't think he meant "land yacht" in the handling sense, but rather in the "big and roomy and plush" sense. No ES ever made has handled as badly as the Detroit big iron that phrase was originally coined for.
Just out of curiosity what can you not get on an F-sport other than leather and wood trim? I was leaning towards the luxury package on a regular ES but the circuit red in the F-sport is growing on me. I’m now curious about the draw backs of the sport package compared to the luxury/ultra luxury package.
Besides - I do agree. The 2018 Toyota Camry XSE and the 2019 Lexus ES handles better than their predecessors did. But that doesn't mean its some handling-king that you put on the mountain roads.
TNGA IS should be fun though
Other than leather and wood trim with ambiant lighting I'm not seeing much else you cant option from the luxury and ultra luxury package to the F-sport. Am i missing something? I know those are pretty big pieces but just making sure i understand the limitations.
I really want the more aggressive styling as i really hate the basic grill on the base model ES.
I thought you had both of those listed as optional additions in your technical review..
yeah, so what does that mean?
Re-read krew's review, forget your own preconceived notions about ES, it handles well vs competition, including A6, etc. As I said before, It likely handles way better than my own IS, which is supposedly sporty RWD sedan.
Sakura
Other than leather and wood trim with ambiant lighting I'm not seeing much else you cant option from the luxury and ultra luxury package to the F-sport. Am i missing something? I know those are pretty big pieces but just making sure i understand the limitations.
I really want the more aggressive styling as i really hate the basic grill on the base model ES.
I believe there is nothing wrong with my statement. It obviously better than before but its obviously not better than say a Civic Type R or STi is where I'm getting at. Hence - I said, "handling-king". Obviously the Lexus ES wasn't built for that and there is nothing wrong with that. The Lexus ES is an amazing luxury car that handles better than its predecessors - it doesn't need to be some handling king. It doesn't need to be powerful either. Its good at being a comfortable-luxurious-reliable car.
Within the competition? If you included the A6, does that mean you are stating the 2019 Lexus ES's handling is also on par with the BMW 5 Series or MB E-Class? I can't speak on behalf an A6 because I never drove one. But I highly doubt a FWD Lexus ES handles better than the BMW 5 Series or MB E-Class.
The 2G Lexus IS was a wonderful luxury car but it wasn't a good handling car. The car was pretty numb and the steering was unresponsive. The 2G Lexus IS handled worst than the Acura TSX and Acura TL - so obviously the 2019 Lexus ES will handle better.
Note: I have driven the 2G Lexus IS, 1G/2G Acura TSX, and 3G Acura TL around the time period of 2006-2008.
Those are valid criticisms of the older versions of Lexus' 2IS. We should note, however, that the numerous suspension, steering and VDIM tweaks and improvements made for the 2011 2IS made a world of difference. A friend had a 2006 IS 350 with the Sport package, and after I got my 2011 IS 350 F Sport tried them back-to-back. It was an eye-opener, and yet another example of Lexus kaizen, or continuous improvement.The 2G Lexus IS was a wonderful luxury car but it wasn't a good handling car. The car was pretty numb and the steering was unresponsive. The 2G Lexus IS handled worst than the Acura TSX and Acura TL - so obviously the 2019 Lexus ES will handle better.
Note: I have driven the 2G Lexus IS, 1G/2G Acura TSX, and 3G Acura TL around the time period of 2006-2008.
But what you say basically confirms that good handling is not just a matter of FWD vs. RWD vs. AWD.
FWD, RWD and AWD will not be the sole reason a car handles good. A FWD car handle good. A RWD car can handle poorly. However - its how these cars are step up. This is what I was alluding too.
While the 2019 Lexus ES is obviously better - its not as "amazing" as some people make it out to be. Because you'll obviously feel the draw-backs of the MacPherson suspensions and FWD.
Like Krew said, Power Trunk, Power Shade, and Leather seems to be the biggest difference we know so far. I think we might have to wait for the actual build simulation to figure out what's really missing. I'm expecting quite a bit. The 3G 2014 Lexus IS F-Sport was missing quite a bit of features compared to its non F-Sport counter-part. I'll bet that later into the model years - the Lexus ES F-Sport might offer more luxurious features.
FWD, RWD and AWD will not be the sole reason a car handles good. A FWD car handle good. A RWD car can handle poorly. However - its how these cars are step up. This is what I was alluding too.
While the 2019 Lexus ES is obviously better - its not as "amazing" as some people make it out to be. Because you'll obviously feel the draw-backs of the MacPherson suspensions and FWD.
When will be the first time an average Joe can get a good look before ordering? Do dealerships get demo cars prior to official production arrival. No chance i'm pre-ordering blind. Also when do the build options and pricing typically show up on the Lexus website?
So Audi and VW can handle well, but Lexus ES cant handle well... this is basically your argument despite Krew writing review and every other review saying it handles well...
What is competition? Since you are going from Golf to Type R to Audi and MB.
Regular E220d does not handle anything special... A6 FWD also does not handle like Type R either.
Lexus ES can compete well against these cars, and there is simply no argument against that.
Even regular F10 never handled well in non M editions, it was pretty heavy car and by all reviews GS handled better.
The Lexus ES is an amazing luxury car that handles better than its predecessors - it doesn't need to be some handling king. It doesn't need to be powerful either. Its good at being a comfortable-luxurious-reliable car.