Reviews: The 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h
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zeusus
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I used to only desire the F-Sports for the aggressive looking front fascia but now that the non-F-sports looking just as aggressive with the LS and the ES but mixed with some of that Lexus elegance, I actually prefer those more and of course the luxury interiors are lightyears ahead of the F-Sport no option interiors.
Just out of curiosity what can you not get on an F-sport other than leather and wood trim? I was leaning towards the luxury package on a regular ES but the circuit red in the F-sport is growing on me. I’m now curious about the draw backs of the sport package compared to the luxury/ultra luxury package.
Thanks Ian! That is exactly what I meant. I didn't mean it in a "handling" sense. It was just merely a slang for it being a big - comfy car. I didn't say it handles like a land yacht - I just said it was a land yacht. Lol.
Besides - I do agree. The 2018 Toyota Camry XSE and the 2019 Lexus ES handles better than their predecessors did. But that doesn't mean its some handling-king that you put on the mountain roads.
If you opt for the F-Sport, you will only be able to equip the Premium Pack only. You'll be missing on the features given to you by the Luxury Pack and Ultra Luxury Pack because you can't option those.
Its really a decision of - do you want more luxury or more sportiness? For me - I would pick the luxury route. The Lexus ES is not a sports car by any means - so its just more wise, in my opinion, to option the luxury route. Why should I sacrifice the amazing luxury features on a Lexus ES in order to get a Lexus ES F-Sport that isn't even a remotely "sporty".
yeah, so what does that mean?
Re-read krew's review, forget your own preconceived notions about ES, it handles well vs competition, including A6, etc. As I said before, It likely handles way better than my own IS, which is supposedly sporty RWD sedan.
Ian Schmidt
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TNGA IS should be fun though 
TNGA IS should be fun though
yeah, problem with old platform was that there is choice they had to make - sport/hard or comfy/boat... with TNGA it does not have to be that black and white, and it is quite cool that Toyota has managed to do that and not VW for instance, that has done platform sharing forever and all of their new vehicles are having this old Toyota problem of comfy vs sport.
Sakura
Other than leather and wood trim with ambiant lighting I'm not seeing much else you cant option from the luxury and ultra luxury package to the F-sport. Am i missing something? I know those are pretty big pieces but just making sure i understand the limitations.
I really want the more aggressive styling as i really hate the basic grill on the base model ES.
Other than leather and wood trim with ambiant lighting I'm not seeing much else you cant option from the luxury and ultra luxury package to the F-sport. Am i missing something? I know those are pretty big pieces but just making sure i understand the limitations.
I really want the more aggressive styling as i really hate the basic grill on the base model ES.
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Looks like Power Trunk open/close and Power Rear Sunshade are the most significant differences between Ultra Luxury & F SPORT, also F SPORT is only available with NuLuxe rather than leather. I wonder if F SPORT will have the ML sound system as an option?
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And so I did! However, it's difficult to say just which of the stand-alone options Lexus will offer on the F SPORT.
It means what it literally means.
I mean: it handles better than its predecessors but its not something you would take to the mountains and push it to the edge.
I believe there is nothing wrong with my statement. It obviously better than before but its obviously not better than say a Civic Type R or STi is where I'm getting at. Hence - I said, "handling-king". Obviously the Lexus ES wasn't built for that and there is nothing wrong with that. The Lexus ES is an amazing luxury car that handles better than its predecessors - it doesn't need to be some handling king. It doesn't need to be powerful either. Its good at being a comfortable-luxurious-reliable car.
Within the competition? If you included the A6, does that mean you are stating the 2019 Lexus ES's handling is also on par with the BMW 5 Series or MB E-Class? I can't speak on behalf an A6 because I never drove one. But I highly doubt a FWD Lexus ES handles better than the BMW 5 Series or MB E-Class.
The 2G Lexus IS was a wonderful luxury car but it wasn't a good handling car. The car was pretty numb and the steering was unresponsive. The 2G Lexus IS handled worst than the Acura TSX and Acura TL - so obviously the 2019 Lexus ES will handle better.
Note: I have driven the 2G Lexus IS, 1G/2G Acura TSX, and 3G Acura TL around the time period of 2006-2008.
Like Krew said, Power Trunk, Power Shade, and Leather seems to be the biggest difference we know so far. I think we might have to wait for the actual build simulation to figure out what's really missing. I'm expecting quite a bit. The 3G 2014 Lexus IS F-Sport was missing quite a bit of features compared to its non F-Sport counter-part. I'll bet that later into the model years - the Lexus ES F-Sport might offer more luxurious features.
I have forgoten how to call this marketing technique, but what I see is that it is used deceptively by lumping all German brands under the category of "good handling", when the truth is that only BMW and Porsche are the real ones that handle well, and that BMW has a recent past of cars not handling that well (see BMW Forum), and that only recently has Mercedes improved their handling, and that Audis have never really been and are not yet a well handling cars, and that the VW Golf is not a remarkably well handling car.
But what you say basically confirms that good handling is not just a matter of FWD vs. RWD vs. AWD.
The worst handling car I ever drove was a Toyota Hiace mk4 (Grand Hiace or Gravia), it was RWD.
In general, unless it is a tiny budget car, there are no modern cars that handle badly, all handle well and are capable of illegal maneuvers before the driver's abilities are put to test. Imagine a film scene in real life, a basic 5 Series (that is not M5) will not have an edge over a Camry adequately powered, it will all be about the driver. It just happens a more daring driver will be behind the wheel of the BMW, but the BMW has nothing to do, it is image.
Joaquin Ruhi
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Those are valid criticisms of the older versions of Lexus' 2IS. We should note, however, that the numerous suspension, steering and VDIM tweaks and improvements made for the 2011 2IS made a world of difference. A friend had a 2006 IS 350 with the Sport package, and after I got my 2011 IS 350 F Sport tried them back-to-back. It was an eye-opener, and yet another example of Lexus kaizen, or continuous improvement.
Ok, now back to ES...
FWD, RWD and AWD will not be the sole reason a car handles good. A FWD car handle good. A RWD car can handle poorly. However - its how these cars are step up. This is what I was alluding too.
While the 2019 Lexus ES is obviously better - its not as "amazing" as some people make it out to be. Because you'll obviously feel the draw-backs of the MacPherson suspensions and FWD.
Like every other "amazing" FWD.
When will be the first time an average Joe can get a good look before ordering? Do dealerships get demo cars prior to official production arrival. No chance i'm pre-ordering blind. Also when do the build options and pricing typically show up on the Lexus website?
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So Audi and VW can handle well, but Lexus ES cant handle well... this is basically your argument despite Krew writing review and every other review saying it handles well...
What is competition? Since you are going from Golf to Type R to Audi and MB.
Regular E220d does not handle anything special... A6 FWD also does not handle like Type R either.
Lexus ES can compete well against these cars, and there is simply no argument against that.
Even regular F10 never handled well in non M editions, it was pretty heavy car and by all reviews GS handled better.
I do not believe dealerships get "demo" cars before official production arrival. The online build simulation will be available before the vehicle hits dealers though.
If you are pre-ordering or ordering a car from the dealer, you'll be given a list of options that you are able to select from. That shouldn't be a problem.
Hold up. Take a step back - I get it, you like the Lexus ES. But I didn't say Audi and VW can handle better than the Lexus ES. You are putting words in my mouth for this bit.
Also - where did I say the Lexus ES can't handle well? I clearly stated the 2019 Lexus ES handles well and better than the predecessors.
What I said:
What I'm trying to say as well is: while the Lexus ES handles better, its still not a good handling FWD car like the Civic Type R. What I said was: The 2019 Lexus ES definitely handles better than its predecessors but its not a handling-king, such as the Type R. I'm addressing this point because you seem to push the narrative that the Lexus ES handling is extremely well, which is simply not true.
Yes - it handles well and better than before. But no - it doesn't handle like a "sporty" car.
No. There is an argument for this because the Lexus ES doesn't completely compete against the A6, 5 Series or E-Class. Just because the GS is axed and Toyota put the ES in its place - doesn't mean it competes there.
1) The Audi A6 is a longitudinal FWD car and the 5 Series/E-Class are RWD. On paper - this is already steps ahead in handling compared to the Lexus ES transverse FWD.
2) I would bracket Lexus ES as a car that competes with Buick, Genesis, and the Acura TLX. Its not an A6, 5, or E competitor.
3) It doesn't have to be a A6, 5, or E competitor. Its an amazing car that will sell extremely well where its at. I think people have to understand the Lexus ES is nothing more than a Lexus ES. Its built to be a handsome, luxurious, comfortable, and reliable car.
Lastly - I'm a Toyota shareholder and I like the concept of the Lexus ES, but this doesn't stop me from being bias with my opinions about the vehicle.
The Volvo S90/V90 competes against the three German. It has up to more than 400 PS from its transverse 2.0l I4. Audi A4 is probably going FWD next generation. I would not be surprised if too in a generation. With AWD now the standard, bar a for a few enthusiasts, and most flagships going electric, there is little incentive for RWD. Heavy car, no manual, RWD is not worthy.