CRSKTN

Expert
Messages
1,929
Reactions
3,172
A quick recap, the most recent interesting trademarks from Toyota or those pertaining to Lexus:


BZ
BZ1C
BZ2C
BZ3C
BZ4C
BZ5C
BZ5C B Z 5 C
CENTURY
EL GIGANTE
FT-3E
GR GT 1707505309849.png
GR TGR-WRT1707505305239.png
GX550
HILUX CONQUEST
HZ300e
HZ350E
HZ450e
HZ550e
KIZUNA
LAND CRUISER FJ
LEXUS GAZOO RACING RECORDER
LEXUS TZ550e
LFA
LF-ZA
LF-ZC
LF-ZL
LF-ZV
LX700h
MORIZO
RX500h
RZ F
RZ350E
RZ500E
RZ550E
TRUENO
TZ450e
TZ550e
 

Attachments

  • 1707505287146.png
    1707505287146.png
    6.4 KB · Views: 8

Gecko

Administrator
Messages
4,679
Reactions
11,206
The news around BEVs seems to get worse every week whereas demand for HEVs and PHEVs is keeping Toyota's hybrid products on wait lists.

I wonder how Lexus is looking at the market and the future right now. If this buyer sentiment exists for much longer, will they scrap the EV by 2035 plans? The current lineup is lacking in key areas and a lot of it is due to R&D costs and extended development times dedicated to BEVs. What if betting on BEVs doesn't work?

We've seen Lexus on the precipice of these critical shifts before, and I think poor change management at moments like this is what knocked them out of real "Tier 1" luxury status over the last decade and a half due to:

(1) Resistance to developing performance-oriented products and powertrains (including hybrids)
(2) Reluctance to embrace engine downsizing and turbocharging
(3) TNGA delays leading to uncompetitive flagship vehicle launches such as 5LS and 4LX, same for extended lifecycles for IS and RC which forced their removal from many global markets
(4) Not grasping the early opportunity in PHEVs or BEVs after their success with HEVs

Time will tell. With the examples above, I don't think Lexus handles change very well and the whiplash from "EV OR BUST!" to "NOBODY WANTS EVs" would be hard for any company... but Lexus especially seems to have a lot riding on it.
 

Levi

Expert
Messages
2,707
Reactions
3,134
The news around BEVs seems to get worse every week whereas demand for HEVs and PHEVs is keeping Toyota's hybrid products on wait lists.

I wonder how Lexus is looking at the market and the future right now. If this buyer sentiment exists for much longer, will they scrap the EV by 2035 plans? The current lineup is lacking in key areas and a lot of it is due to R&D costs and extended development times dedicated to BEVs. What if betting on BEVs doesn't work?

We've seen Lexus on the precipice of these critical shifts before, and I think poor change management at moments like this is what knocked them out of real "Tier 1" luxury status over the last decade and a half due to:

(1) Resistance to developing performance-oriented products and powertrains (including hybrids)
(2) Reluctance to embrace engine downsizing and turbocharging
(3) TNGA delays leading to uncompetitive flagship vehicle launches such as 5LS and 4LX, same for extended lifecycles for IS and RC which forced their removal from many global markets
(4) Not grasping the early opportunity in PHEVs or BEVs after their success with HEVs

Time will tell. With the examples above, I don't think Lexus handles change very well and the whiplash from "EV OR BUST!" to "NOBODY WANTS EVs" would be hard for any company... but Lexus especially seems to have a lot riding on it.
I think they learned a lesson. They will (and Toyota) manage to have a balance of between different types of cars rather than only one or the other. Slowly but steadily Toyota is making BEVs. There is demand, but the one hyped by the media and BEV fanatics. While many carmakers start to backpedal (as irrationally as they went all-in) TMC will seize the opportunity the regain market.
 

Gecko

Administrator
Messages
4,679
Reactions
11,206
I think they learned a lesson. They will (and Toyota) manage to have a balance of between different types of cars rather than only one or the other. Slowly but steadily Toyota is making BEVs. There is demand, but the one hyped by the media and BEV fanatics. While many carmakers start to backpedal (as irrationally as they went all-in) TMC will seize the opportunity the regain market.

For Lexus, with what products? They've stalled everything outside of GA-K to prepare for dedicated BEV development, and now they might have to backtrack on that? Knowing Lexus, it could take another decade to engineer all-new premium platforms for their flagship products to accommodate ICE + batteries. Not to mention that we don't know much about if ICE powertrain development might have also been paused for Lexus-specific applications.

The products on GA-K are easier to update and iterate on due to scale and shared costs, but it seems like all of them are 4cyl-based. That's not going to be enough for anything beyond mid-market.

LS? LX? LC? RC? IS? GX deserves the 409hp tune, as well as the V35A + hybrid, not T24A. LX 700h should be the base option with an optional V8 + hybrid. Same for LS. The upper end of the market is where I'm most worried, and GA-K with 4cyl ICE and HEV or PHEV won't cut it.
 

Levi

Expert
Messages
2,707
Reactions
3,134
For Lexus, with what products? They've stalled everything outside of GA-K to prepare for dedicated BEV development, and now they might have to backtrack on that? Knowing Lexus, it could take another decade to engineer all-new premium platforms for their flagship products to accommodate ICE + batteries. Not to mention that we don't know much about if ICE powertrain development might have also been paused for Lexus-specific applications.

The products on GA-K are easier to update and iterate on due to scale and shared costs, but it seems like all of them are 4cyl-based. That's not going to be enough for anything beyond mid-market.

LS? LX? LC? RC? IS? GX deserves the 409hp tune, as well as the V35A + hybrid, not T24A. LX 700h should be the base option with an optional V8 + hybrid. Same for LS. The upper end of the market is where I'm most worried, and GA-K with 4cyl ICE and HEV or PHEV won't cut it.
There are not many cars in that list. LC and RC are just the “one” 2 door car Lexus had since its inception, SC gen I, SC gen II replaced by IS C. We know a new Lexus coupe is coming. GS potentially exists, but they won’t make it because it really makes no sense (see new 5 Series/i5), also because of ES. Now the problem will be if ES does not get the same update as the Crown Crossover. GX will not get the V6 hybrid because the LX should get it, marketing reasons, but the cars exist and are up to date and competitive.

The problems are IS and LS. IS less so because the car sells and has a market. So your question would be rather what is Lexus’ plan for IS and LS?
 

dylanfoos

Follower
Messages
216
Reactions
290
Best Car March 10, 2024 issue [Magazine]

"Engine Return Theory" - Morizo

Not the best translation, but talks more about Toyota not moving to full electric vehicles.

1707547004955.png

Tokyo Auto Salon 2024 suddenly announced! Car lovers will be moved to tears!? Digging deeper into the Morizo Declaration It is a work unit. If I could think of one, it would be a 4-cylinder version of the 3-cylinder 1.60.
30033 for 1.6 liters. child If you change it to a 2.2- liter 4-cylinder engine, it will cost 400 yen. Manufacturers other than Toyota
cannot sell even if they make one because of fuel efficiency
regulations. No, Toyota says there are many ways to climb the mountain when it comes to carbon neutrality, so whether it's hydrogen, e-fuel, or pio-methanol... You may be thinking of an engine that spins. It's going to be a war engine Probably not. Another compact Although I am guessing, I believe that this engine is exclusively used
for generators. Nowadays, there is a trend on a global scale that even HEVs and PHEVs cannot be equipped with an engine, but gasoline will still be available for at least 50 years. If you think about it the other way around, it means that cars with engines can be sold until the mid-1930s. This year is the 24th year, so it's been over 10 years. Vehicles to be installed are 2022
A model like the ``GR GT3'' exhibited at the Auto Salon in 2016 could be considered. As sports models that use engines become extinct around the world, I think we are trying to preserve internal combustion engines that produce heat, sound, and air waves.
By making it multi-fuel compatible, it can be used for a variety
of purposes. Probably the last hyper in the history of automobiles. It's not a short period. Furthermore, we do not know how many years it will take until BEVs become fully popular. It could be 26 years, it could be 33 years. no one can predict Published at the 2022 Tokyo Auto Salon GR GT3. This engine is also under active development.
 
Last edited:

spwolf

Expert
Messages
3,508
Reactions
3,437
The news around BEVs seems to get worse every week whereas demand for HEVs and PHEVs is keeping Toyota's hybrid products on wait lists.

I wonder how Lexus is looking at the market and the future right now. If this buyer sentiment exists for much longer, will they scrap the EV by 2035 plans? The current lineup is lacking in key areas and a lot of it is due to R&D costs and extended development times dedicated to BEVs. What if betting on BEVs doesn't work?

We've seen Lexus on the precipice of these critical shifts before, and I think poor change management at moments like this is what knocked them out of real "Tier 1" luxury status over the last decade and a half due to:

(1) Resistance to developing performance-oriented products and powertrains (including hybrids)
(2) Reluctance to embrace engine downsizing and turbocharging
(3) TNGA delays leading to uncompetitive flagship vehicle launches such as 5LS and 4LX, same for extended lifecycles for IS and RC which forced their removal from many global markets
(4) Not grasping the early opportunity in PHEVs or BEVs after their success with HEVs

Time will tell. With the examples above, I don't think Lexus handles change very well and the whiplash from "EV OR BUST!" to "NOBODY WANTS EVs" would be hard for any company... but Lexus especially seems to have a lot riding on it.

Lexus definitely does not have EV or bust mentality, all that crap is PR only. There is no actual proof they are interested in selling phevs, let alone bevs.

I am not sure what news are you listening to, but BEVs are growing fast in Europe and China. A lot of stupid PR stuff in media is just stupid. They expected sales to 100% BEV in 2 years? Stupid.

While Europe is not a big market for Lexus, China is. So far, luxury market in China has not been hit hard with competition from local manufacturers, as customer buy brand names. So Lexus is fine for now, as are BMW/Audi/MB.

TMC on the other hand - Europe is still good as BEVs are expensive and TMC does great with their hybrids (barely sells any phevs at all) due to pricing (Yaris Cross is new best seller). That will change with new wave in 2-3yrs. Phev sales are in freefall though so I dont know what will happen there, shift to bev directly?

But in China? All hands on deck. Both VW and Toyota have a lot to lose:

Forget BEVs, Toyota is moving very slow with PHEVs. A lot of it has to do with the fact that JDM does not care about PHEVs or BEVs.
 

internalaudit

Expert
Messages
1,079
Reactions
1,106
Lexus definitely does not have EV or bust mentality, all that crap is PR only. There is no actual proof they are interested in selling phevs, let alone bevs.

I am not sure what news are you listening to, but BEVs are growing fast in Europe and China. A lot of stupid PR stuff in media is just stupid. They expected sales to 100% BEV in 2 years? Stupid.

While Europe is not a big market for Lexus, China is. So far, luxury market in China has not been hit hard with competition from local manufacturers, as customer buy brand names. So Lexus is fine for now, as are BMW/Audi/MB.

TMC on the other hand - Europe is still good as BEVs are expensive and TMC does great with their hybrids (barely sells any phevs at all) due to pricing (Yaris Cross is new best seller). That will change with new wave in 2-3yrs. Phev sales are in freefall though so I dont know what will happen there, shift to bev directly?

But in China? All hands on deck. Both VW and Toyota have a lot to lose:

Forget BEVs, Toyota is moving very slow with PHEVs. A lot of it has to do with the fact that JDM does not care about PHEVs or BEVs.

From the September battery strategy announcement, why would Toyota push a lot of PHEVs and BEVs when in two years it will have LFP and better Li-ion technology to use?


Toyota isn't stupid. Many jurisdictions want more BEVs in 2026, even CARB ACC II doesn't apply until 2026 model year for battery warranty and longevity.

That's then there will be more Toyota BEVs coming out, when better batteries are ready for commercialization and when jurisdictions force sales quotas or toughen emissions requirements.

As they currently stand, Toyota and Lexus BEVs rank poor in terms of range charging and oomph, all things that pamper the batteries. I would probably consider the RZ on their 6th or 7th year. :)
 
Last edited:

qtb007

Follower
Messages
364
Reactions
545
The news around BEVs seems to get worse every week whereas demand for HEVs and PHEVs is keeping Toyota's hybrid products on wait lists.

I wonder how Lexus is looking at the market and the future right now. If this buyer sentiment exists for much longer, will they scrap the EV by 2035 plans? The current lineup is lacking in key areas and a lot of it is due to R&D costs and extended development times dedicated to BEVs. What if betting on BEVs doesn't work?

We've seen Lexus on the precipice of these critical shifts before, and I think poor change management at moments like this is what knocked them out of real "Tier 1" luxury status over the last decade and a half due to:

(1) Resistance to developing performance-oriented products and powertrains (including hybrids)
(2) Reluctance to embrace engine downsizing and turbocharging
(3) TNGA delays leading to uncompetitive flagship vehicle launches such as 5LS and 4LX, same for extended lifecycles for IS and RC which forced their removal from many global markets
(4) Not grasping the early opportunity in PHEVs or BEVs after their success with HEVs

Time will tell. With the examples above, I don't think Lexus handles change very well and the whiplash from "EV OR BUST!" to "NOBODY WANTS EVs" would be hard for any company... but Lexus especially seems to have a lot riding on it.
2035 is a long way off. I think Lexus is likely still pushing for that target. I think we will see certain models switch over earlier than others. Luckily, in the meantime, Lexus has excellent Toyotas to morph into Lexus. ES, RX, NX, (now) TX, and (now) GX have really great Toyota starting points to borrow from. As much as we like to think that Lexus is defined by the LX and LS, their bread and butter are those Toyota based models. The RWD cars are probably the ones that should go BEV first because, frankly, they aren't super relevant these days AND that seems to be the market that is embracing BEV the most. IMO, the hypothetical Lexus household has an IS BEV for dad and a hybrid TX for mom. They don't take the IS on long trips. Dad enjoys bombing around locally in his fast, sleek BEV IS and when they roadtrip, everyone jumps in the more comfortable TX anyway.

As far as PHEVs, they are great... but I bet Toyota is still losing money on every one of them without a tax credit. Finding space in the vehicle for a 20-25 kwh battery along with the HEV drivetrain is still a challenge. Those batteries are costly even if they are hooking them up to existing HEV drivetrain hardware. Toyota is investing a ton in batteries and it will take a few years to get that capacity lined out. Even then, they are going to prioritize battery capacity where it makes the biggest bang for buck. For every PHEV they build, that's roughly enough battery for 15 hybrids.
 

dylanfoos

Follower
Messages
216
Reactions
290

LC + RC! Updates: (mostly the same news...)


It is reborn as a V6 hybrid by integrating the new LC + RC!

1707676740532.png
1707676762343.png

Lexus' proud sports coupes, the LC and RC, will be integrated into a new luxury coupe in 2025.

It is an FR sports HEV, and details regarding the engine are unknown, but the current LC's V6, 3.5L is likely. There is also a possibility that it will adopt the V6, 3.4L twin-turbo engine installed in Toyota's North American-only models "Tundra" and "Tacoma," or the inline-4, 2.4L turbo engine from the Land Cruiser 250 (North American/China spec).

Unfortunately, there are no pure engine cars, so there are no V8 or 5L engines in the current LC500 or RC F.

The design is said to be an elegant two-door coupe with 2+2 seats and a design that is said to be the ``royal road of luxury coupes.'' Also, since the current LC has a convertible option, there is a possibility that this car will also have a convertible option. The price is likely to be around 15 million yen.

- Lexus LC + RC integrated sports expected specs
- Overall length: 4800mm
- Overall width: 1900mm
- Overall height: 1350mm -
Wheelbase: 2870mm
- Power unit: V6, 3.5L - HEV
- System output: 380ps
- Drive system: FR
- Transmission: 8AT
- Expected price :15 million yen
 

dylanfoos

Follower
Messages
216
Reactions
290
So they want to merge the rc and lc into a car that costs more than the LC but makes 20% less power? The interior better be something insane. If its just another implementation of the standard with the 14in screen theyve lost the plot.

Hoping there is an "F" trim of it somehow.
 

Levi

Expert
Messages
2,707
Reactions
3,134
Announced wheelbase and overall length are the same as LC. So it looks just it is going to be an updated LC 500h.
 

NomadDan

Follower
Messages
261
Reactions
321
Personally, I really like the appearance of the renders. I never was a fan of the LC.

A TT V6 hybrid will probably be a good drivetrain, but if the rumors of the next IS continuing to offer the V8, why not offer it in this new coupe too?