Official Lexus Future Powertrain & Product Discussion

Joaquin Ruhi

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Does the truck factory in Mexico produce engines too?
I don't think so, but not 100% sure. Given all the free trade agreements Mexico has, I doubt they assemble engines there. I suspect the Tacoma base 4-cylinder engine comes from Indonesia and the Tacoma V6 from U.S. plants in either Georgetown, Kentucky; Buffalo. West Virginia or (less likely) Huntsville, Alabama.
 

super51fan

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Will the new TT V8 in development have any relation to the BMW's new TT V8 in development? Both are rumored to be 4.0L Hot-V's so it would be interesting to see if they are collaborating further.
 
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James

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Will the new TT V8 in development have any relation to the BMW's new TT V8 in development? Both are rumored to be 4.0L Hot-V's so it would be interesting to see if they are collaborating further.
I’ll be honest I could care less who creates the new V8 can we just have one? Like how is it every other company has a big V8 and we can’t get just one? Like we want to play in the sand box too...don’t we? You know some M products or AMG or RS like dammit Lexus just give us 1! Sorry rambling here just crazy how they won’t build faster cars at all. Reliability is great and we don’t need the fastest car but like if the Germans have something in the 4s we need something in the 4s as well then we have best reliability and a car that’s fun to drive and almost as fast. Is this really that hard to do? I don’t build cars or design or anything but my mind struggles with the fact that Lexus can’t make big V8s as well and go against the Germans. They didn’t have a lot of sales sure I get it but the F product line is only what like 12 years old. It takes time and consistently sticking with models each time there is a refresh and not stopping after 1 cycle.
I hope for positive news on this but we just keep getting disappointed on V8s that it’s like a fantasy now...
 

super51fan

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I’ll be honest I could care less who creates the new V8 can we just have one? Like how is it every other company has a big V8 and we can’t get just one? Like we want to play in the sand box too...don’t we? You know some M products or AMG or RS like dammit Lexus just give us 1! Sorry rambling here just crazy how they won’t build faster cars at all. Reliability is great and we don’t need the fastest car but like if the Germans have something in the 4s we need something in the 4s as well then we have best reliability and a car that’s fun to drive and almost as fast. Is this really that hard to do? I don’t build cars or design or anything but my mind struggles with the fact that Lexus can’t make big V8s as well and go against the Germans. They didn’t have a lot of sales sure I get it but the F product line is only what like 12 years old. It takes time and consistently sticking with models each time there is a refresh and not stopping after 1 cycle.
I hope for positive news on this but we just keep getting disappointed on V8s that it’s like a fantasy now...
I don't care either, I'm just curious.
 

spwolf

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The 1UR in the Landcruiser is tough and reliable, powerful and torquey for a NA V8 and its intended duty. TTV8 will make even more torque for the Landcruiser. Remember it is often used as an armored car, a V8 is a MUST.
as people mentioned v6tt will be considerably more powerful than 1UR... I very much doubt you will see V8tt in LC.
 

ssun30

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The Land Cruiser has a V8 engine in a small portion of its history, and a small portion of sales in that history are V8 (FZJ105 and GRJ200 are much more common than UZJ100 and URJ200). There is no V8 legacy. And there is no requirement for V8 on an armored car. The military grade HZJ70 they sell in Africa has a 129hp/290N.m I6 diesel and it can carry a tank cannon. I'm pretty sure a V6 with 3 times the power is fine. And comparing the 4.6 1UR to the V35 is quite weird as they are two completely different class of engines. V35 is more comparable to a 6.0L+ V8.
 

CRSKTN

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It’s getting harder and harder to stay enthused.... I don’t understand what’s so hard about making a new V-8 and one with boost when even Cadillac did it.

A BMW 550i has 523hp... not the M5... the 550...
Cultural problem. Toyota's senior management are worthless dinosaurs who care more about feeling important and making sure Toyota lasts another 100 years, vs making that 100 years innovative and meaningful.

There needs to be a cleansing across Japan. The dead weight of their prior generation is literally crippling their economy and driving their young to suicide. There needs to be upwards mobility within these orgs for fresh young ideas.
 

spwolf

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Cultural problem. Toyota's senior management are worthless dinosaurs who care more about feeling important and making sure Toyota lasts another 100 years, vs making that 100 years innovative and meaningful.

There needs to be a cleansing across Japan. The dead weight of their prior generation is literally crippling their economy and driving their young to suicide. There needs to be upwards mobility within these orgs for fresh young ideas.
about ttv8?
 

CRSKTN

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about ttv8?
About every spineless, err on the side of "caution" decision theyve made or committment they half assed because they weren't brave enough to just do it and see how it goes. It's like their corporate runway just has a big arrow that says "occasionally become evangelicals for moonshots, but largely cowardice is the way to go".
 

CRSKTN

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I’ve got to agree with you @CRSKTN ...

Even with FCEV’s Toyota keeps pushing on... Considering the first (Probably) premium car using Toyota’s FCV technology will be a BMW...

It does makes me ask... What’s going on???
Its unfortunately not complicated. It's literally a culture obsessed with elders, even when they're complacent dead weight sitting in critical seats.

Combine that with extreme xenophobia that you see from the older generation there, resulting in a "nothing outside Japan influences my opinion" attitude. It is pure arrogance
 

ssun30

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Cultural problem. Toyota's senior management are worthless dinosaurs who care more about feeling important and making sure Toyota lasts another 100 years, vs making that 100 years innovative and meaningful.

There needs to be a cleansing across Japan. The dead weight of their prior generation is literally crippling their economy and driving their young to suicide. There needs to be upwards mobility within these orgs for fresh young ideas.
You need to read this:

Akio Toyoda has done a lot in the past decade to purge the “old guards” out of the company and listen to people on the factory floor or in the labs. He even dismantled that ridiculous dealership network built by those dinosaurs. TMC is pretty much the only legacy corporation where young, aspirational college graduates want to work in Japan right now. It's an outlier in the Japanese society. That bulbous beast run by bean counters stereotype of Toyota is no longer true especially after 2017.

In order to innovate for the next 100 years, a company has to last that long, and Akio's biggest job is to ensure that. TTV8s do not make the company last 100 years, thinking about the long-term strategy of transitioning into a mobility company does. Saying the company is not innovating is non-sense considering all the R&D they've done and patents they own on electrification and self-driving technologies. A TTV8 is not an innovation. The world is moving towards autonomous driving, electrified propulsion, alternative transport modes. TTV8 has nothing to do with that future, it's only something that's "nice to have". "Enthusiasts" just aren't prepared for a future where cars drive themselves, do not "make thrilling noises", and may not even be owned by individuals.

Read that article. It's very clear Akio Toyoda expected a third major catastrophe to severely cripple the company. He's right. All he's done in his 11 years is to survive this potentially long-term economic recession. Again, a TTV8 does nothing against a recession.
 

CRSKTN

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You need to read this:

Akio Toyoda has done a lot in the past decade to purge the “old guards” out of the company and listen to people on the factory floor or in the labs. He even dismantled that ridiculous dealership network built by those dinosaurs. TMC is pretty much the only legacy corporation where young, aspirational college graduates want to work in Japan right now. It's an outlier in the Japanese society. That bulbous beast run by bean counters stereotype of Toyota is no longer true especially after 2017.

In order to innovate for the next 100 years, a company has to last that long, and Akio's biggest job is to ensure that. TTV8s do not make the company last 100 years, thinking about the long-term strategy of transitioning into a mobility company does. Saying the company is not innovating is non-sense considering all the R&D they've done and patents they own on electrification and self-driving technologies. A TTV8 is not an innovation. The world is moving towards autonomous driving, electrified propulsion, alternative transport modes. TTV8 has nothing to do with that future, it's only something that's "nice to have". "Enthusiasts" just aren't prepared for a future where cars drive themselves, do not "make thrilling noises", and may not even be owned by individuals.

Read that article. It's very clear Akio Toyoda expected a third major catastrophe to severely cripple the company. He's right. All he's done in his 11 years is to survive this potentially long-term economic recession. Again, a TTV8 does nothing against a recession.

Thank you for that.

What I will say is this: people say innovation when they mean attention. Investors want companies that get attention. Real attention. The sort of attention you walk out of the room with a $mm fee sort of attention.

Lexus needs image. It is image. It is literally, to consumers in the west, the tip of the spear in "real world value proposition".

Here's the thing: I don't care if my car is 0.3 slower than yours to 60, if mine cost 3x as much as my license plate ends with 2 numbers (XXXX07), because I probably have a monster at home dedicated to laying rubber, or being innovative.

They dont understand that just because in Japan luxury means the best materials and the most extreme of talent, in the west Luxury is a messaging tool (and you see it everywhere) where the public perception is just as important as the actual physical makeup of the vehicle.

It's why Japan has to kill themselves and give you the best and an Italian can mail you a dishrag in a garbage bag and charge you 3x more and still sell.

It is also a reflection of cultural bias'. Its why you see big American stars "acting" Japanese, or code switching, as opposed to maintaining a respectful but still idiosyncratic disposition. It's a remnant of hate, unfortunately. In this case Japanese culture is their immediate "global currency" for that monent, and so they reflect its desired behavior.

I have always said Lexus needs to be a break even machine at best (maybe, maybe you fight off inflation and asset decay), and centralize R&D from the top down. Develop refine and release into luxury, get people curious and excited by a differentiator they cant afford. It's like the Model 3 vs the Model S. The S and X got people really thirsty for some of that maybe I have SV money image you used to have to suffer a Prius for (I kid I kid). Then the model 3 went out and people put down payments on credit for it.

They need to do the same thing. It works.

Tesla's valuation makes no sense otherwise, unless they on a risk adjusted basis capture the entirety of the global EV charging infrastructure.
 

internalaudit

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Yeah. I may give Toyota and Honda until 2026 (seeing Ssun's post about 2025 being optimistic for solid state batteries) to come up with that compelling BEV. After that, I may just go for a used Li-ion battery BEV like an Audi etron S (or any cheaper etron S which will have tri-motors for torque vectoring) whose price drops like a rock lol.

Good thing I am confident my CT200h, RAV4H and Accord will last until then, if not over and beyond. :)
 

Ian Schmidt

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A TTV8 is not an innovation. The world is moving towards autonomous driving, electrified propulsion, alternative transport modes. TTV8 has nothing to do with that future, it's only something that's "nice to have". "Enthusiasts" just aren't prepared for a future where cars drive themselves, do not "make thrilling noises", and may not even be owned by individuals.
Also V8s are likely to be regulated out of existence in the next 10 years. For TMC that's a single product cycle on the BOF models. 😎

But some enthusiasts are prepared. I saw a fun video this weekend of Ken Block flogging a modified Mustang Mach-E around Ford's Arizona proving grounds. He enjoyed it a lot, the tires definitely didn't.
 

Levi

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TTV6 hybrid Can replace TTV8. Pity F brand dies, but can do without if IS 500 type of cars continue.


Anyway, TMC made the same mistakes as BMW. BMW had no supercar, was too late then, i8 was not enough. Same with BEVs, no follow ups of the i3, then no solution for for Tesla 3, now behind VAG and Daimler.
 

Gecko

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I think it is pretty clear that F is on the way out.... right? I was not expecting any different.
 
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