Official 8th Generation (2018+) 010B Camry Discussion

Carmaker1

Carmaker1

Admirer
Messages
817
Reactions
2,486
Ian Schmidt said:
As I've mentioned before, Toyota seems to have an aversion to introducing tech features at the high end, and it's often frustrating. I'm hoping that streak is broken for the 5LS.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've not really understood this approach in regards to Lexus specifically. Even for pre-JDM Lexus, the Celsior and Soarer pioneered a lot of things. In regards to parking assist, I now realise why they didn't do that. The painted bumper design of the XF10 LS400 didn't allow for flush implementation of the "Back Sonar" system (introduced in 1982). Many people are under the impression it is a German invention.
4cf6eacs-480.jpg
ed0eeacs-960.jpg
1b0eeacs-960.jpg

The first car that can really be credited with flush implementation of parking sensors (sans rubber bumper strip) on a painted bumper, would the Mercedes-Benz W140 S-Class in 1995. BMW was first in the luxury segment in 1991-92 via the refreshed 750i/iL V12 (E32), since Toyota sat on their own tech and temporarily discontinued it in 1988. Intuitive Parking Assist barely was (re-)offered by Lexus in 2000.: unamused:
A93F2318.jpg

As for Toyota's 1980s backup camera "invention", the Soarer's rear spoiler design allowed for intricate packaging of the CCD camera. They didn't really figure out how to package and mount a CCD camera in the license plate area until probably the late 1990s or maybe some other silly excuse, as to how they fail to lord pioneering accomplishments over their competition.
attachment.php

attachment.php


Anyways, regarding the 5LS you will be very impressed (observed new LS hybrid, not petrol version).

mmcartalk said:
An interesting question, though, is if Jag electronics were reliable enough back then......maybe Lyons passed on it for a reason. As a student of automotive history, I'm sure you are well-familiar with the British Lucas electrical systems...and how they were the butt of jokes. ;)


Today, of course, with not only back-up cameras, but advanced features like camera-surround and cross-traffic back-up warnings, that technology is considered primitive.
Click to expand...

Yep, thankfully Lucas days are long past. At worst, maybe it would send out false alarms. That system was intended for the XJ40 generation introduced in late 1986-early 1987 (MY1988 in US), which the platform ended up being used until late 2002. The system was rejected in 1983 on the basis, "real drivers don't parking aids". BMW and Porsche proved that wrong. Eventually the V8-powered X308 XJ-Series received parking assist in 1999 (UK only, 2000 for exports), based on Ford's own system introduced in 1998 for the 1999MY Windstar and Explorer bi-model year refresh.

To think Jaguar could've had that 13 years earlier and pioneer it before BMW did in 1991-92. Both Lexus and Jaguar belatedly offered technology their companies were already privy to nearly 20 years earlier and let competition beat them to it. The same thing comes to mind in regards to the new 10-speed transmission, Aisin created in 2012-13, but are beaten to the punch by others in Ford and GM.

However, I really wouldn't call it primitive technology just yet, as sensors are very much relevant and work in tandem with the camera systems. Toyota having pioneered these for automobiles 35 years ago, could've married sonar and camera much earlier and not allowed for PDC, Parktronic, and Rear View Monitor systems from BMW (Valeo), Daimler AG, and Nissan to be falsely touted as "inventions" in competitors' marketing.

mmcartalk said:
Yes, that is just about the time I first started noticing it myself. The 3rd-generation (1992-96) Camry, IMO, was arguably the best one ever built (I still see them running around today with 250-300K miles on them). From the 4Gen on until just recently, when improvements started to show up again, it seemed like a slow but noticeable descent in the solidness of materials used, though general reliability remained good. I also noticed it with other Toyota products.
Click to expand...

I've tried to wrap my head around the vast difference in budget between the XV10 ($600-650 million) and XV20 Camry ($250+ million). In 1988, they basically took a work-in-progress Lexus and adapted it into a Camry within 3 1/2 years, so maybe that figure was included. The 4th generation Camry was not new, but watered down, so he cost savings came from there as well. There was Toyoda ordered cost-cutting from the early '90s, then that of Toyota hyper cost-cutting from the mid-90s to early 2000s, save for upmarket products.

The change in Toyota management in 1995 I don't believe affected Toyota products in the showrooms right away, even though back then the Clinton administration was threatening severe tariffs against Japanese automakers, especially Toyota and affected part of 4th gen development for a brief spell. A base Camry CE could've cost as much as a fully loaded ES300 ($34k USD) despite TMMK and an LS400 $100,000 USD if tariffs were enacted in June 1995.

That took some time to trickle down, likely taking affect by the 1998 model year and then shortening of development timetables via for post-2001 redesigns. Many Toyotas introduced in the second half of the '90s, still had outrageous lead times. The '98 Land Cruiser design was approved in 1993 and frozen around May 1994. The '99 Solara production design was already done by the end of 1995 and '01 Sequoia in 1997, even in being based off of existing platforms/foundations.

By comparison, the '07 Camry design was frozen in August/September 2004 and Job #1 by Feb. 2006. Some entry level Toyotas, achieved a record low of 10 months. They slowly reverted back to longer development with the second generation '08 Highlander (December 2005) and 3RX (2006 sign-off). That is why I believe Tesla is deluded to think they can achieve design freeze to production so quickly with their Model 3. Toyota abides by 24-36 months table, especially for TNGA being all-new. The new Prius' radical design was approved in November 2012, ultimately going into production 36 months later in November 2015. Similar and more in months for new Lexus flagships.

mikeavelli said:
Seriously WTF does it have the same cues as the LC.....disgusting......

Otherwise, totally shocked so far
Click to expand...

Well, this was somewhat expected. I don't believe it really has LC cues, nor do I believe "officially" any new Lexus models have Prius cues. I have gotten tired of people insinuating, that the LC and speculative renderings of the LS had "Prius lights". Toyota has always quietly favoured parallel, yet separate design languages for their brands, that bear subtle similarities. I already roll my eyes at the idea that the facelifted U.S. XV50 Camry has a "spindle grille", that of the Toyota Fortuner or other pre-TNGA Toyota brand models of the mid-2010s.

The Vibrant Clarity and L-finesse design philosophies were slowly crafted during the 2001-May 2002 period by Toyota management, with some input from CALTY Newport heads, arriving in the mid-2000s products. The modern-day descendants of those languages in today's Toyotas and Lexus products (now entering 3rd generation of L-finesse), are still required to be separate, yet still be under the Toyota Motor Co. family styling. There will never be a day, when Lexus and Toyota are what VW and Lamborghini are to each other. Even Audi and VW sometimes have overlap. This really isn't a case of Acura-Honda at least.
 
CIF

CIF

Premium Member
Messages
1,681
Reactions
1,833
Well the teaser shot confirms it, we saw the XSE in the spy shots. Hard to believe the XSE will have such low profile tires. I'm not a fan of the vents below the taillights, but I'll reserve judgement until the full reveal.

Carmaker1 said:
I'm not sure either about TRD, unless he's referring to the Supra and the truck/4x4 operation. The Sienna is definitely a 2018 model year, so I would ignore Automotive News on that front. I have not really paid much attention to the Sienna, but I understand your point very much. Honda is heavily investing in the next Odyssey and have been seen testing in public for over 2 YEARS.

I expect Toyota to bring it, as the Sienna has been on the same platform since 2003 (if not almost late 2002) and now is the opportunity to execute very well. Anyway, Automotive News might have gotten the correct 5LS launch date well before everyone else back in 2013-14, but they have serious inconsistences at times (especially right now) that make me scratch my head.

My information on the 2018 Sienna is directly from fellows that have worked on it, as well as the 2018 Tundra, 2018 Camry, and 2019 Corolla. The latest launch for that would only match up to that of the 2014 Highlander and 2013 RAV4 as Q1 releases. Toyota is testing the Tundra and Sienna, but hides them very well. Spy photographers for that matter can be extremely lazy in some cases, missing some of the very obvious. A CL forum member caught a 5LS mule (not full prototype), which much of the people in that thread and its OP are still failing to pick up on it and referring to FWD products or that of Genesis.

People really need to keep their eyes peeled, as it's beneficial to us (automotive firms or engineering affiliates) when observers do not pick up on prototypes running around. For all of TFL's foibles, they do a very fine job of keeping up with prototypes and mules. Back in the day, the craziest of leaks occurred in prototypes being seen very early (as in 2 years before reveal). I saw the 1993 Camaro and Firebird F-bodies in full regalia in a (circa) November 1989 news article archive, over 3 years before they were released in early 1993. Things have gotten much tighter nowadays.
Click to expand...

Ah yes understandable.

Well excellent either way, thanks for the news.

Yeah I agree regarding the spy shots.
 
Gecko

Gecko

Administrator
Messages
4,913
Reactions
11,852
Excited to see this thing... I'm expecting the debut of a new 4cylinder engine (family)!
 
Joaquin Ruhi

Joaquin Ruhi

Moderator
Messages
1,529
Reactions
2,434
Gecko said:
uhhhh.... not what I was expecting. Hmm.

AKIO REVEALS THE CAMRY, BUT NOT THE LS?!
Click to expand...
Yeah, why couldn't he do both?

Realistically, the press conference emphasized how "American" the Camry is in every way possible, something crucial in this era of protectionist Trumponomics, and if, for whatever reason, Akio could only do one of the 2 press conferences, he chose the right one, again given the politics.
 
CIF

CIF

Premium Member
Messages
1,681
Reactions
1,833
Mind boggling that Toyoda unveiled the Camry but not the LS...

As for the car itself, I must say I REALLY like it! The teaser rear shot of the XSE looked a bit overstyled to me, but now looking at the exterior as a whole I think it works great, even in XSE trim. I absolutely love the side profile, and rear 3/4 view. I think the rear 3/4 view, and the rear fender are gorgeously done. It almost gives off RWD proportions. Exterior-wise this is my favorite Camry Toyota has done. That two-tone XSE looks really hot as well. The interior as well I think looks very good, modern and balanced. Also I give Toyota special credit for maintaining several knobs on the center stack for ultimate functionality. 10 inch HUD on a Camry, that's very unexpected.

Excellent to see the V6 engine remains! No disappointing turbo 4 engines here!

Overall I am very impressed, and right away I love this Camry. Certainly my expectations were different for this than the LS, but this has wowed me, while I'm still uncertain about some aspects of the LS and only slowly warming up to its styling.
 
Joaquin Ruhi

Joaquin Ruhi

Moderator
Messages
1,529
Reactions
2,434
CIF said:
Excellent to see the V6 engine remains! No disappointing turbo 4 engines here!

Overall I am very impressed, and right away I love this Camry. Certainly my expectations were different for this than the LS, but this has wowed me, while I'm still uncertain about some aspects of the LS and only slowly warming up to its styling.
Click to expand...
My feelings exactly. I was expecting the end of the V6 Camry and the first application of Lexus' 2-liter turbo 4 in a North American Toyota. So glad that didn't happen.

I need to double-check if the CVT rumors in the non-hybrid Camry turned out to be false as well.
 
mikeavelli

mikeavelli

Moderator
Messages
7,051
Reactions
15,649
I had low expectations for the Camry. We are always teased sporty, style etc and it does get better but nothing like this. Not only that the specs and options are dope.

After seeing the white one there, I can see myself driving that. Looks beautiful. Blown away by it.

As for the LS, i think if it was a FULL reveal (hyrid, LS F, etc) then I would have been more hyped. I'm at a point now that a base engine, no matter how dope, doesn't get me all hot and bothered in a luxury saloon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CIF
mikeavelli

mikeavelli

Moderator
Messages
7,051
Reactions
15,649
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/toyota/camry/2018/2018-toyota-camry-prototype-drive-review/

The roof and driver’s seat height have descended about an inch, the hood by about 1.5 inches. (TNGA has sunk the center of gravity by 6 percent; the hoodline dropped for improved outward vision.) The wheelbase is 2.0 inches longer, though both the overall length and width expand by only 0.5 inch. The chassis is 30 percent stiffer. The wheels—ranging from 16-inchers on the base LE to 19 inches on the pull-no-punches XSE—have been lured out of their usual hiding in the wheelwells. The rear suspension is totally recomposed—proper double A-arms substituting for the old struts.

Its trio of powerplants are spanking-new, too, including a 3.5-liter D-4S (dual port and direct injection) V-6 and a long-stroke 2.5-liter Dynamic Force I-4, which has a thermal efficiency that can touch 40 percent. The latter also serves as the gasoline partner of the revamped hybrid power unit. Both the V-6 and the I-4 are coupled to eight-speed automatics (replacing the previous six-speed boxes), and the Hybrid SE adds a paddle-shift six-speed simulation. We’re told to expect roughly 10 percent more power and 20 percent better efficiency.
Click to expand...


And then we talk. “Previous Camrys have been white bread,” he says. “If a person wants a car that doesn’t break down, and they don’t have experience with European cars, then you might say to them ‘Buy a Camry; don’t worry.’ We could probably have stayed in that world.” Vehicle performance leader Yoichi Mizuno adds, “After seven generations of Camry, our biggest challenge was to forget. This one isn’t a Camry. It’s a new car.” How new? Katsumata-san says, “I’ve been in charge since the about the fifth or sixth generation, which at the time we thought was a big change. With that one, the front engine cradle was new along with the upper body, but the rear of the undercarriage was unaltered. So overall, it was like 65 percent new. This one is 100 percent.” As we walk around the car, he can’t stop talking about it.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.