spwolf

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I disagree with you. It is almost certain that EV Lexus will be offered in all EU and EFTA countries.
i meant more for Toyota, which dont need it for EU co2 rules... but even for Lexus, it will still matter as their pricing will differ in markets where they need them for regulations... this is why Lexus sells so little of hybrids in their biggest market in Europe - Russia, they are pushing regular petrols there. So I would guess that in countries like Russia, Lexus Europe will set more realistic pricing for EVs, while in countries like Norway, they will subsidize the pricing more.
 

Joe

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i meant more for Toyota, which dont need it for EU co2 rules... but even for Lexus, it will still matter as their pricing will differ in markets where they need them for regulations... this is why Lexus sells so little of hybrids in their biggest market in Europe - Russia, they are pushing regular petrols there. So I would guess that in countries like Russia, Lexus Europe will set more realistic pricing for EVs, while in countries like Norway, they will subsidize the pricing more.
Success of an EV version will indeed depend on competitive pricing, but also on battery range.
 

spwolf

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Success of an EV version will indeed depend on competitive pricing, but also on battery range.
depending on what customer perceives as ok range... i think if they are withing reasonable range and have good price, then it will sell ok.

But it is hard to say as right now even Model 3 is tanking after 2-3 months on each market... well for Toyota, selling 10k EVs per month would not be considered tanking, but for EV-only manufacturer it certainly is.
 

internalaudit

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I don't mind paying a premium for a Lexus BEV (over its hybrid/regular variant). For the 3IS, the base model starts at $41k CAD here and taking that as an example, I wouldn't mind paying for a 4IS BEV even if it's $60k CAD as long as winter driving range can still cover 180 miles.

Though with LSS, I don't see the need to go for a higher trim model if just like in the UX250h, heated steering wheel, seats, auto dimming rearview mirror and AWD are standard.

No way will the price parity between BEV and ICEV be reached within the next five years and here I am dying to not have to spend $3k CAD a year on fuel costs. Of course, I wouldn't pounce on just any BEV to save on fuel costs (because there's depreciation and cost of money to think about as well as my wife's driving needs) and having Honda's and a RAV4H in my fold (i.e. one is fully depreciated, the other is not worth selling for $8-10k, while the RAV4H we will likely keep so I can purchase a sedan BEV :) ) makes it so much easier to play the waiting game.

We asked for our $1k deposit back on the Tesla Model 3 because I didn't like it had just one 15" display, it asked $5k USD for AAC and $5k USD for Premium Package back then and also because of long-term reliability and financial/budget concerns but I wouldn't have any qualms going for a Lexus BEV a few years down the road.
 
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flexus

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Okay, sorry about that. Deleted the post.

Is it mostly bogus what they post there?
Oh you didn't have to delete it :) I just cannot stand their level of journalism and biased views towards anything else than EV. And worst part is that some times they are against everything else but Tesla. I do have to admit that it is useful site to gather sales data and interesting news but it is full of content which sounds like political extremesist.
At that site there is no place for constructive conversation. And that is one great thing that I think we have here on LE. So I feel little guilty you deleted your post even if it is from not so good source. It deserves place in this thread and forum.
 

internalaudit

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Oh, Krew had already posted it:
https://lexusenthusiast.com/2019/04/23/lexus-continues-work-on-first-full-electric-model/

but here's another source:
https://www.autonews.com/shanghai-auto-show/lexus-plans-its-first-ev-europe-china-push

SHANGHAI — Declaring that a pure electric vehicle is necessary for China and Europe, Lexus International President Yoshihiro Sawa said last week that the luxury brand is working on its first EV.

But exactly what it will be and when it will appear, the Toyota marque is still trying to figure out.

"Definitely here we need an EV in the future," Sawa said last week in an interview at the Shanghai auto show, where Lexus debuted its LM luxury van. "But I cannot say when or how."

China's strict emissions controls and mandates for electric vehicle credits are driving carmakers into EVs. And Lexus will also need them in Europe, where certain cities have strict EV requirements, Sawa said. Launch timing will hinge on the course of regulation, he added.

Toyota Motor Corp., and by extension Lexus, is a latecomer to the industry's pure EV push. Toyota instead continues to leverage the gasoline-electric hybrid technology it pioneered with its Prius. The Japanese manufacturer is now the world's biggest maker of hybrids.


But the Toyota brand will start selling an all-electric version of its C-HR subcompact crossover in China next year as part of a push to introduce "more than 10" battery electrics globally by 2025.

Lexus introduced its first hybrid in 2005 and now has 11 hybrid offerings worldwide. About 26 percent of the 698,330 vehicles it sold globally last year were gasoline-electric.

Lexus is working on plug-in hybrids and fuel cell vehicles in addition to EVs, Sawa noted. But plug-ins don't fulfill some regulatory requirements.

"It's a transition era," Sawa said. "We are studying several possibilities."
 

Will1991

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If they don’t release it this year in Europe, they will pay some fines to keep selling here...

According to fleet emissions they are a bit far from 95g. They have a good environmental performance for a premium brand, but that’s not enough for 2020 European legislation.

Can’t say I’m sad, hopefully has more than 60kWh :)
 

flexus

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If they don’t release it this year in Europe, they will pay some fines to keep selling here...

According to fleet emissions they are a bit far from 95g. They have a good environmental performance for a premium brand, but that’s not enough for 2020 European legislation.

Can’t say I’m sad, hopefully has more than 60kWh :)
It is 2021 and fines come in 2022
 

Will1991

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Oh...

This is getting really hard... I really hope this to be a proper Lexus as is getting a very long wait for it...
 

flexus

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Oh...

This is getting really hard... I really hope this to be a proper Lexus as is getting a very long wait for it...
I calculated that ES and UX alone would bring emissions to 120g this year. New CT (possibly EV too), UX300e, RX300h and RX PHV would reduce emissions to it's target around 105g. Bigger problem is the 70g limit, of cource it's too weight adjusted but still Lexus would need a major push toward ZEV.
 

Ian Schmidt

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Okay, sorry about that. Deleted the post.

Is it mostly bogus what they post there?
They're still less biased than CleanTechnica, who effectively are Tesla's new PR firm. Electrek used to be that bad, but they've recently tried to be less Tesla-centric and got the full-on "Fredo, you have betrayed me!" treatment from Elon Musk on Twitter about it.
 

internalaudit

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Finally, we can expect some Lexus BEVs a few years down the road. Definitely makes more sense to offer Lexus BEVs sooner if profit margins want to be maintained.

Toyota teams with China's CATL and BYD to power electric ambitions
Automaker diversifies battery source and moves up electrification goal by 5 years
https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Electric-cars-in-China/Toyota-teams-with-China-s-CATL-and-BYD-to-power-electric-ambitions


Toyota and Subaru Will Build Two Electric SUVs on a Jointly Developed EV Platform
The new platform will be able to underpin both mid-size and large vehicles, including sedans and crossovers.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27785342/toyota-subaru-ev-platform-electric-suv/


My apologies for including a link from electrek (used to be very pro-Tesla) but I see the UX (third from the last, as this is expected to be the first BEV) and potentially the IS (third from the front):
https://electrek.co/2019/06/07/toyota-electric-car-images-accelerate-plan/
 
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spwolf

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I calculated that ES and UX alone would bring emissions to 120g this year. New CT (possibly EV too), UX300e, RX300h and RX PHV would reduce emissions to it's target around 105g. Bigger problem is the 70g limit, of cource it's too weight adjusted but still Lexus would need a major push toward ZEV.
It is not that crazy hard for Lexus, unlike Germans though... TMC bread and butter cars are hybrids that have very low CO2 levels, so there is much less to compensate...
 

Will1991

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It is not that crazy hard for Lexus, unlike Germans though... TMC bread and butter cars are hybrids that have very low CO2 levels, so there is much less to compensate...
Besides being looking for a Toyota/Lexus BEV for some time, I would really love to see Lexus teaching the German's how it's done, with a level of engineering (regarding efficiency and performance) much more like Tesla and not like eTron and such 😀

What makes me love Lexus is how differently they usually do things (design, key points, etc...), not like Germans as they usually make only one car and during a whole generation they only use a copier to stretch it... 🙃
 

flexus

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I can't believe that someone has guts to publish this level of journalism. Even non TMC fan can see that this is biased to the moon and back. Also does anyone know who would manufacture solidstate battery. NGK displayed theirs few weeks back at Yokohama.
 
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