New Solid-State Battery Developed for Lexus Electric Vehicles

[maiaramdan]

@ssun30
Agree with you but I don't think it is this easy anyway , hope really to have something international maybe like UN on rearranging the power sources to most countries across the globe

 

[krew]

First Full-Electric Lexus to be Next-Generation CT Hatchback?

Could the hatchback make a comeback?

View the original article post

 

[argh]

If true, this would be a great opportunity to drive the rear wheels and plan for a future CT F.

 

[PeterF]

Tesla has yet to show that it can actually produce the vehicles it promises>many have ordered, but still wait for delivery. Other companies with far better production resources will overtake Tesla. I am convinced that TMC will meet and exceed the challenge.

 

[zeusus]

Tesla has yet to show that it can actually produce the vehicles it promises>many have ordered, but still wait for delivery. Other companies with far better production resources will overtake Tesla. I am convinced that TMC will meet and exceed the challenge.

Agreed, Tesla is too busy creating new cool PR stunt products and making promises on delivery dates but never actually delivering.

Their autopilot tech is very cool but IMO thats about the only thing they have going for them. If they lost their tax credits, it'd be over.

 

[LexusTechSA]

That would be awesome

 

[Trexus]

Yes it would be awesome to bring the CT back to the North America with an electric version. Lexus should have kept the current CT with the new 2018 model refresh. We still would have to wait a year and 8 months (fall of 2019 for 2020 MY). Increase the length and width by an inch. Also please put cupholders in the back seat and expand the CT line.

CT 200e
CT 200h
CT 300h
CT 300 (FKA 200t)

 

[krew]

Lexus should have kept the current CT with the new 2018 model refresh. We still would have to wait a year and 8 months (fall of 2019 for 2020 MY).

I wonder if North America will get the CT back -- any electric drivetrain that works in the CT should also work in the UX crossover. It's a while away, guess it will depend on the current market.

 

[Trexus]

I wonder if North America will get the CT back -- any electric drivetrain that works in the CT should also work in the UX crossover. It's a while away, guess it will depend on the current market.

I'm curious how Lexus will bring in electric vehicles into the line up. Will Lexus introduce completely new models or take existing models and add electric variants? Obviously it would be cost efficient to take an existing model such as the CT 200h and put in an electric motor with solid state batteries and call it day.

CT 200h - CT 200e
HS 250h - HS 250e
IS 300h - IS 300e
ES 300h - ES 300e
GS 300h - GS 300e
GS 450h - GS 450e (more powerful electric version)
LS 500h - LS 500e

RC 300h - RC 300e
LC 500h - LC 500e

UX 200h - UX 200e
NX 300h - NX 300e
RX 450h - RX 450e

 

[maiaramdan]

IDK
Still not convinced with the current BEV range and charging time

 

[spwolf]

I wonder if North America will get the CT back -- any electric drivetrain that works in the CT should also work in the UX crossover. It's a while away, guess it will depend on the current market.

I think they dont have any illusions about doing small electric vehicle anymore... it is proven by now that market wants only desirable ones - so unique EV with luxury and desirability factor, if possible an SUV.

Leaf, Zoe, Bolt, Prius PHEV, etc, all sold with huge discounts. Previous gen Prius PHEV had such big discount that often price was cheaper than regular Prius.

Jaguar I-Pace is what everyone needs to do now, until new batteries shift it all.

And Toyota is already in finalizing phase of its plan for NA EV production... few months ago we heard in news how they are finalizing supplier list... so maybe in that new Toyota-Mazda plant?

 

[internalaudit]

Now that Toyota/Lexus has announced 2020 for a BEV and 2021 for solid state batteries, I guess I'll be rocking my 02 Civic until then. We have the RAV4H to tide us over in the meantime anyway.

 

[isanatori]

It puzzles me, how most here have ignored, the only reason Toyota is going to deal with BEVs is China.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rce-toyota-into-electric-u-turn-idUSKBN17L1VC

Some advisors claim, plug-in EVs will change nothing, except for establishing China as the absolute dominant power in terms of global economy and geopolitics, because China controls rare earth metal supply. Most probably, EV and battery component material prices will skyrocket in the next years.

Only Chemical Industry can solve the environmental disaster problem. They suggest establishing necessary industrial production methods that will revert the results of the environmental disaster. Which means, energy fuel will be a byproduct of a self sufficient Chemical Industry.

I think, that's the target of economies, aiming to become self sustainable and therefore hydrogen societies, such as the Japanese.

 

[ssun30]

It puzzles me, how most here have ignored, the only reason Toyota is going to deal with BEVs is China.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rce-toyota-into-electric-u-turn-idUSKBN17L1VC

Some advisors claim, plug-in EVs will change nothing, except for establishing China as the absolute dominant power in terms of global economy and geopolitics, because China controls rare earth metal supply. Most probably, EV and battery component material prices will skyrocket in the next years.

Only Chemical Industry can solve the environmental disaster problem. They suggest establishing necessary industrial production methods that will revert the results of the environmental disaster. Which means, energy fuel will be a byproduct of a self sufficient Chemical Industry.

I think, that's the target of economies, aiming to become self sustainable and therefore hydrogen societies, such as the Japanese.

You are right in that all nation's EV strategies are essentially energy policies. And you see Toyota is getting ready for China's monopoly on rare earth with its recent development of low rare earth usage motors.

China was the reason Toyota RUSHED its BEV plans. A heavily electrified fleet has always been Toyota's goals and it never bet on FCEV as its sole strategy since Japan and Korea are the only countries committed to Hydrogen Economy (and of course Koreans never buy japanese cars).

If Toyota didn't want BEV it won't be developing a 2030s-era battery (Li-Air) since the 2000s.

 

[RAL]

Welcome new member @internalaudit

 

[internalaudit]

Actually, although China is a major reason, one other reason why Toyota and many other car manufacturers haven't jumped on the bandwagon is because these batteries cost a lot more than engines + transmissions + R&D. This only means smaller profit margins when so far only the Nissan Leaf EV is the mass market BEV available.

Eventually, most car makers will shift to BEV if it means cheaper production costs (higher and higher CAFE requirements) and much lower warranty claims. I don't ever think the engine or transmission is a competitive advantage because lots of car makers outsource transmissions from partners anyway.

The losers in the BEV adoption are car dealerships but even then, they're not going to be deprived of maintenance and repair work but will just be able to upsell on still needless services a lot less.

Toyota already has everything in place if you look at the Prius Prime. Bump the battery size and do away with the engine, and we already get a BEV. I know because we have a RAV4H and it's been rock solid for the past two years.

 

[ssun30]

Toyota already has everything in place if you look at the Prius Prime. Bump the battery size and do away with the engine, and we already get a BEV. I know because we have a RAV4H and it's been rock solid for the past two years.

No they can't. The Prime's battery uses a power-density optimized chemistry. It weighs 260 lbs while only having 8.8 kWh of raw charge (~6 usable). A Prius EV with the same capacity as a Model 3 will have a 2,000 lbs battery.

That's why PHEV is a sound idea on paper but a bad idea in practice: you can only have a battery that is either power-dense or energy-dense, but PHEVs require something in between, so you end up with a compromise that leads to nowhere. Toyota has never developed an energy-density optimized Li-ion battery because Li-ion is a dead end.

Toyota's first BEVs in China will outsource the entire electric powertrain to some indigenous manufacturers. These cars are just like the RAV4EVs that were legally mandated by California. In fact Toyota is so unenthusiastic about the project it used bin parts from the XP90 Yaris and E120 Corolla (produced in the last decade). They are so embarrassed about them that these EVs won't even carry a Toyota badge.

 

[internalaudit]

Thanks for the info.

I wasn't talking about using the same battery chemistry, rather, I was saying the Prius Prime already operates like a BEV so it's not like Toyota is so late in the game and can't play catch up.

So it's true that it's better to wait for solid state batteries, possibly with double the density at lower costs?

 

[ssun30]

possibly with double the density at lower costs?

That's exactly what TMC is aiming for, the price target is somewhere around $100/kWh, the point at which an EV can be profitable.

 

[spwolf]

Eventually, most car makers will shift to BEV if it means cheaper production costs (higher and higher CAFE requirements) and much lower warranty claims. I don't ever think the engine or transmission is a competitive advantage because lots of car makers outsource transmissions from partners anyway.

The losers in the BEV adoption are car dealerships but even then, they're not going to be deprived of maintenance and repair work but will just be able to upsell on still needless services a lot less.

I doubt that Toyota dealers will have much less work than now? Or that warranty claims will be much less?
Problem is that when something fails, warranty cost is likely to be huge since small parts likely won't be replaced.

So manufacturers will still charge a sizable sum for checkups and will use that as warranty money for batteries and other parts. Just like Tesla charges mandatory $600 for checkup with no work done.

As to the competitive advantage, they will still buy a lot of things from suppliers and they will still try to have advantage over other brands.
Car manufacturers have huge R&D budget and they will try to do their own parts to make it cheaper and more unique.

There will be some shifting of work for sure, for instance more electrical work will be done at dealers, car batteries and motors need less work to be assembled but something else will take up their place and in the cars will be more and more expensive.