New Lexus President Wants to Expand F Brand Models

[internalaudit]

Maybe it's different in Europe, but in NA the non-enthusiast car-buying public doesn't know VAG owns Audi, let alone Lamborghini (and if they did, it would be seen as a negative for Audi, not a positive for VAG). Similarly nobody knows BMW owns Mini, at least not until they find out what parts cost 😂

I'm not even sure if VAG owns Porsche or if it's vice versa because of the intricacies of the transactions and entities involved and because this happened around the time of the subprime crisis.

Good I did learn about these who owns who in the past few years.

And a few other things/facts I learned:

• BMW vehicle exteriors are getting fugglier with the big beaver / buckteeth grills.
• Only the Audi R8 is RWD-biased (maybe it is just RWD and not AWD) in the whole line up. The rest are FWD-biased. Torque vectoring only available in S and RS lines for most models (not the A3 though).
• Lexus/Toyota is for now the most reliable make. Hybrids are almost bullet-proof, its BEVs will be too. Only issue with current BEVs is the battery chemistry (too much cooling required and full charge cycle numbers still up in the air).
• Lexus/Toyota could lose out on reliability ranking once more BEVs are out in the market. Most issues with Euro makes are related to engines, transmissions, electrical gremlins, which may all disappear with BEV high voltage sytems.

Wish lists:

• Lexus/Toyota come up with sporty BEVs with rear wheel torque vectoring (that don't break the upper middle class bank account) because even the BMW 7 Series will be offered as a BEV. Eventually with SSB / solid electrolytes.
• Lexus/Toyota should bring back the Sharp Plasmacluster Ion filtration system that was proven to work against SARS and other air borne viruses/bacteria. I have the portable ones in our cars.

 

[ssun30]

Could the upcoming E-Axle be a torque vectoring system?

I mean, if it's only a big motor with lots of power, what makes it different from E-Four? One would imagine a simple construction would be two 'E-Four motors' bolted together with power flowing between the two to achieve torque vectoring.

Only the Audi R8 is RWD-biased (maybe it is just RWD and not AWD) in the whole line up. The rest are FWD-biased. Torque vectoring only available in S and RS lines for most models (not the A3 though)

Being FWD at this stage could actually be beneficial since it allows through-the-road (TTR) electric RWD like E-Four/E-Axle. That would make a performance PHV much easier to make. A longitudinal platform would have to adopt a P2 system with (a very complex) mechanical AWD plus a mechanical TVD. The FWD-based TTR system would be much simpler, lighter, more efficient, not to mention very flexible torque distribution (front axle could send an arbitrary amount of power to the rear via the electric pathway). I expect this to be a very popular layout in the upcoming decade.

 

[Sulu]

A longitudinal engine AWD system already exists, and it is built by Toyota for the Subaru Crosstrek Plug-in Hybrid. It retains the mechanical Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive system, all while marrying it with the power-split device hybrid system that powers Toyota and Lexus hybrids.

The Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive system transmission, with its built-in FWD transaxle and output to RWD driveshaft, all along the car's centreline, is similar to VW / Audi's longitudinally-mounted quattro AWD system.

But it is not as fuel efficient as a FWD-biased PHEV, since it drives both front and rear axles mechanically. A PHEV with a FWD PSD and transaxle, with rear axle E-Four should be more efficient.

 

[hina]

Nice article. I am always a very big fan of Lexus. it is an amazing car and power machine.
I'm enamored by the Crown in Japan and the more I look at the new Avalon I'm noticing a lot of styling cues especially in the front end of the Avalon that's similar to the Crown. Why doesn't just bring over the Crown!? I would have bought that up in a heartbeat!

 

[suxeL]

View attachment 3791 Nice article. I am always a very big fan of Lexus. it is an amazing car and power machine.
I'm enamored by the Crown in Japan and the more I look at the new Avalon I'm noticing a lot of styling cues especially in the front end of the Avalon that's similar to the Crown. Why doesn't just bring over the Crown!? I would have bought that up in a heartbeat!
View attachment 3792

You`d be in the minority of customers Toyota would need to make a business case to sell that here.

While I dont see a purpose of the Avalon in the NADM, a crown would further alienate the Toyota core demographic as the camry is good enough. Dealers probably have to come with new reasons as to why a Toyota buyer should move away from the safety of FWD,Hybrid, AWD, to a rear wheel sporty setup.

 

[ssun30]

With a global recession on the horizon, people are going to be more cautious with taking big car loans. Part of BBA's success comes from a strong global economy fueling sales of high added value products like AMGs. The future of more Fs is increasingly uncertain at this point.

I've said before Lexus made a bad decision by waiting for the economy to improve to justify business cases for high added value like LF-1 and more Fs. Doing so will make then launch an undesirable car in a recession. The right pace is to start high-end programs near the peak, engineer the product at the bottom (when labor is cheap) and launch during the recovery (when money comes back into the market). Meanwhile lower-end products need to follow the opposite. That's exactly what Mercedes did in the previous cycle and they are the biggest winner as a result.

Luckily for them a very strong NX could be coming at the right moment when sales shift towards the lower end. Lexus also needs to expand the GA-C lineup with more UX options and alternative body styles (CT/CS). UX-F and NX-F should be top priorities in the F division. They will bleed money with LS-F and LC-F, which will give the beancounters more reason to shut the division down.

 

[internalaudit]

Maybe offer eight to 10 year loans close to zero interest will do part of the trick but yeah, I wouldn't ever buy high-end six digit cars. It's just not right for middle to even upper middle class when r/e deals could be had if economies do tumble hard. Hopefully they don't.

I think by the time economies peak in a few years if this CV causes a medium recession, BEVs will be the biggest battlefield for higher-end vehicles. At least that's what the Germans are going for with BMW planning to rationalize and cut down half of its engine variants and announcing a top of the line 7 Series BEV. 20 Audi, about 10 MB and another 10 BMW BEVs by 2025. Good thing SSun has confirmed many times that even well made li-ion batteries can now last thousands of full charge cycles but I will just wait for SSBs and rear axle torque vectoring before I shop for a boat-heavy BEV.

 

[spwolf]

You`d be in the minority of customers Toyota would need to make a business case to sell that here.

While I dont see a purpose of the Avalon in the NADM, a crown would further alienate the Toyota core demographic as the camry is good enough. Dealers probably have to come with new reasons as to why a Toyota buyer should move away from the safety of FWD,Hybrid, AWD, to a rear wheel sporty setup.

In USA Avalon made sense before especially, basically a larger and more luxurious sedan.
Of course now that sedan sales are falling, it makes lense sense... luckily they have China to spread the costs of development these days, and in general China and US and Russian car tastes are very similar while Europe and Japan are very different.

 

[spwolf]

With a global recession on the horizon, people are going to be more cautious with taking big car loans. Part of BBA's success comes from a strong global economy fueling sales of high added value products like AMGs. The future of more Fs is increasingly uncertain at this point.

I've said before Lexus made a bad decision by waiting for the economy to improve to justify business cases for high added value like LF-1 and more Fs. Doing so will make then launch an undesirable car in a recession. The right pace is to start high-end programs near the peak, engineer the product at the bottom (when labor is cheap) and launch during the recovery (when money comes back into the market). Meanwhile lower-end products need to follow the opposite. That's exactly what Mercedes did in the previous cycle and they are the biggest winner as a result.

Luckily for them a very strong NX could be coming at the right moment when sales shift towards the lower end. Lexus also needs to expand the GA-C lineup with more UX options and alternative body styles (CT/CS). UX-F and NX-F should be top priorities in the F division. They will bleed money with LS-F and LC-F, which will give the beancounters more reason to shut the division down.

Didnt S class debut first? During recession?

I dont think it will be a problem... just next 3-6 months obviously are unlucky for anyone doing a new product launch.

 

[mikeavelli]

With a global recession on the horizon, people are going to be more cautious with taking big car loans. Part of BBA's success comes from a strong global economy fueling sales of high added value products like AMGs. The future of more Fs is increasingly uncertain at this point.

I've said before Lexus made a bad decision by waiting for the economy to improve to justify business cases for high added value like LF-1 and more Fs. Doing so will make then launch an undesirable car in a recession. The right pace is to start high-end programs near the peak, engineer the product at the bottom (when labor is cheap) and launch during the recovery (when money comes back into the market). Meanwhile lower-end products need to follow the opposite. That's exactly what Mercedes did in the previous cycle and they are the biggest winner as a result.

Luckily for them a very strong NX could be coming at the right moment when sales shift towards the lower end. Lexus also needs to expand the GA-C lineup with more UX options and alternative body styles (CT/CS). UX-F and NX-F should be top priorities in the F division. They will bleed money with LS-F and LC-F, which will give the beancounters more reason to shut the division down.

During the last recession the LFA still went through with development and made production. The GS/RrC RC F and GS F etc still were produced. From the document that was just leaked the LC F is coming as a new GS.

In contrast Honda killed its v-10, rwd program and delayed the NSX again. They are not playing catch up, they are left behind.

With a launch of 2022 they have time for at least a growing recovery.

 

[spwolf]

During the last recession the LFA still went through with development and made production. The GS/RrC RC F and GS F etc still were produced. From the document that was just leaked the LC F is coming as a new GS.

In contrast Honda killed its v-10, rwd program and delayed the NSX again. They are not playing catch up, they are left behind.

With a launch of 2022 they have time for at least a growing recovery.

what document about LCF?

 

[maiaramdan]

what document about LCF?

I think he means this document

 

[spwolf]

hm, Mirai being replacement for GS? How can that be true, it is very limited by what it can do... unless they plan to do EV and Hydrogen versions of it.

 

[maiaramdan]

Honestly for me it's better to be EV solely or Hydrogen solely than be killed

Add this also to the equation

Toyota And Hino Annouce Fuel Cell Semi Partnership, Will Use Tech From The Mirai | Carscoops

The eco-friendly truck will use two fuel cells sourced from the Toyota Mirai

www.carscoops.com

Which can clearly appears that Toyota insists on Hydrogen even if they will create a Hydrogen fuel brand for themselves

 

[spwolf]

Honestly for me it's better to be EV solely or Hydrogen solely than be killed

Add this also to the equation

Toyota And Hino Annouce Fuel Cell Semi Partnership, Will Use Tech From The Mirai | Carscoops

The eco-friendly truck will use two fuel cells sourced from the Toyota Mirai

www.carscoops.com

Which can clearly appears that Toyota insists on Hydrogen even if they will create a Hydrogen fuel brand for themselves

FCEV is not an worldwide option and EV wont be either... having both might make sense, depending on the markets.

 

[maiaramdan]

Agree with you
A lot need to be done to both tech in order to take the ICE current role

but nothing wrong in making Hybrid between battery electric and hydrogen electric, both have batteries but it's smaller in hydrogen

Maybe there's a solution for merging both take in one

 

[spwolf]

Agree with you
A lot need to be done to both tech in order to take the ICE current role

but nothing wrong in making Hybrid between battery electric and hydrogen electric, both have batteries but it's smaller in hydrogen

Maybe there's a solution for merging both take in one

sure, but then it would be a new GS

 

[maiaramdan]

*Maybe the long waited Hydrogen flagship was actually a GS not LS

*Maybe Lexus will offer the GS with either battery or Hydrogen as they introduced the in-wheel motors from 2019

*Maybe they won't make any battery electric "BEV" until they mastered the SSB and overcome it's previous year shortage

 

[spwolf]

*Maybe the long waited Hydrogen flagship was actually a GS not LS

*Maybe Lexus will offer the GS with either battery or Hydrogen as they introduced the in-wheel motors from 2019

*Maybe they won't make any battery electric "BEV" until they mastered the SSB and overcome it's previous year shortage

they will certainly make EVs before SSB... Those things are never related.

 

[maiaramdan]

I think from what I heard that the SSB will be like the safe boat for all the corp BEV program and that's why they outsourcing the current electric UX & CH-R from Chinese as their R&D in the BEV mainly depending on the high density, safety and longevity that can found in the SSB more that the current liquid batteries