spwolf

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looks interesting...

So for mini GX, 200hp up front and 200hp at back.
For ES, 200hp engine + 107hp motor and 107hp motor at back.

I assume both will have to have larger batteries and/or be PHEVs? Otherwise, how will they power the motors?
 

spwolf

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Is Mini GX, a Lexus BEV version of Toyota BEV coming out? Or was it a PHEV?
 

maiaramdan

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The black vehicle in the video does not look at all like the LF-1 to me. And keep in mind it's a concept - if Lexus shows another concept of the LF-1 three years after the first concept with still no production model... not good AT ALL.

The prototype CUV on the track video is shaped like a GMC Terrain... I'm a little surprised to see something so squared off from Lexus.

Technology is awesome, and that demo was very telling. 80/20 RWD/FWD split... and still AWD... yes please!

I think we need to thank Yaris GR for this awesome tech
 

krew

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2020-12-07-lexus-camouflaged-prototypes.jpg

Lexus have announced their next-generation all-wheel drive Direct4 system, which uses front and rear electric motors to drive torque to all four wheels — here’s a video deep-dive showing off the AWD system with two camouflaged prototypes and a concept we’ll cover later:

The sedan prototype is clearly the current ES, but what about the squared-off crossover? Could this be the next-generation NX or a brand new Lexus model?
2020-12-07-lexus-prototype-ev-front.jpg

2020-12-07-lexus-prototype-ev-rear

(The crossover mostly looks like a rebadged Toyota RAV4, though there is an argument that there are some hints of the...

Continue reading...


 

meth.ix

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This kinda convinces me that the production LF-1 may not be offered in a gasoline-only option. Lexus previously only had an AWD system in cars other than the LX and GX that drives the front tires normally, and sends power to the rear only when traction is needed (not 100% sure of my accuracy here). Lexus needed a proper dynamic AWD system to compete with the likes of Quattro, xDrive and 4MATIC in cars like the Q7, X5, etc. in order to have a competitive full-sized SUV like the LF-1.

Now Lexus has introduced a system, but it only works with electrified vehicles. If my hypothesis is true, this also means we probably won't see a V8 powered F-SUV ever.
 

internalaudit

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From the press release, this DIRECT4 is impressive. Single electric motor for the front and rear with electric torque vectoring? I didn't see the word 'vectoring' though so maybe it's just shifting between the front and rear axle.

The system uses a front and rear e-axle, each featuring a high-torque electric motor and transaxle, focusing on optimum drive force distribution. As the motor is directly connected to the wheels by a single driveshaft, it operates without delay.
 

mikeavelli

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From the press release, this DIRECT4 is impressive. Single electric motor for the front and rear with electric torque vectoring? I didn't see the word 'vectoring' though so maybe it's just shifting between the front and rear axle.

The system uses a front and rear e-axle, each featuring a high-torque electric motor and transaxle, focusing on optimum drive force distribution. As the motor is directly connected to the wheels by a single driveshaft, it operates without delay.

It seems very impressive. I’m hearing that ES shown is a damn hoot to drive.
 

James

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So is this system just for electric vehicles? If so I mean cool technology but some of us want better stuff on gas vehicles not just electric. I’m honestly not excited about the electric world at all and wish Lexus wouldn’t give up on the gas world but seems that ship has sailed.
 
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Finally a BEV is coming to Lexus that isn't just an engine swap. Glad it's coming but still disappointed it's so late in the game. No doubts about quality but I hope the range is good.
 

Gecko

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It seems like we need to split this apart into different pieces - a lot was revealed today, and the way Toyota did it was lackluster and fairly low impact.

1) We’re waiting for an upcoming new concept car showing future lexus design + electrification. It was previewed today.

2) eAxle is actually called Direct4, and now we know more about how it works and what it can do.

3) Video of two running prototypes with Direct4, one was an ES and one was another unknown CUV.

It seems to me that Direct4 is something that will be available on many TNGA vehicles and not necessarily just eTNGA - it is a drivetrain component.

eTNGA is the flexible electrified platform coming soon, and I assume that too will likely also offer Direct4. This platform will not have a gasoline engine and will support future EVs.

TNGA just rolled out 4 years ago and there is no way that TNGA-K, TNGA-C, etc, are going to be abandoned for eTNGA anytime soon. Most likely, this stuff will exist for another 10-20 years because of development time and costs, infrastructure, and because Toyota sees BEV as just one part of their strategy. We are going to see continued development of gasoline engines, hybrids, plug in hybrids, high performance hybrids with Direct4, hydrogen engines and battery electric vehicles (no gas engine).

Thinking about the future, Direct4 seems like the great equalizer that I/we have been talking about and waiting for. With this system, there are many new possibilities and configurations that will allow Lexus to offer completely new types of vehicles... RWD platform development is now essentially unnecessary.
 

Sulu

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It seems to me that Direct4 is something that will be available on many TNGA vehicles and not necessarily just eTNGA - it is a drivetrain component.

eTNGA is the flexible electrified platform coming soon, and I assume that too will likely also offer Direct4. This platform will not have a gasoline engine and will support future EVs.
I believe that you have answered your own question regarding the use of Direct4 on eTNGA EVs: Direct4 electric-axles may be used on (plug-in) hybrid electric vehicles and pure/battery electric vehicles.

TNGA just rolled out 4 years ago and there is no way that TNGA-K, TNGA-C, etc, are going to be abandoned for eTNGA anytime soon. Most likely, this stuff will exist for another 10-20 years because of development time and costs, infrastructure, and because Toyota sees BEV as just one part of their strategy. We are going to see continued development of gasoline engines, hybrids, plug in hybrids, high performance hybrids with Direct4, hydrogen engines and battery electric vehicles (no gas engine).
I suspect that TNGA (all unibody variations) and eTNGA were developed together and are related. If we look upon TNGA-K, TNGA-C, TNGA-N, GA-L, etc. as modular platforms, eTNGA may be just another variation on the common theme.
 

ssun30

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From the press release, this DIRECT4 is impressive. Single electric motor for the front and rear with electric torque vectoring? I didn't see the word 'vectoring' though so maybe it's just shifting between the front and rear axle.

The system uses a front and rear e-axle, each featuring a high-torque electric motor and transaxle, focusing on optimum drive force distribution. As the motor is directly connected to the wheels by a single driveshaft, it operates without delay.
A front/rear torque distribution system is still a torque vectoring system. In this case it actually works better than left/right vectoring while using less hardware.

It seems Toyota does not want a 3-motor interim solution with front/rear vectoring and rear left/right vectoring and would instead go from 2-motor to 4-motor directly, and it makes total sense.
 

Will1991

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3) Video of two running prototypes with Direct4, one was an ES and one was another unknown CUV.


I think the second prototype (next to the ES) is just a test mule GX for the running gear of the yet to be revelead concept (perhaps the RZ450e concept).

I think this because it really looks like a GX and it doesn’t do a lot of sense to make a BEV with, what it seems, so bad aero. Aerodinamics makes a huge impact in real world range on BEV’s...

Also, GX would provide a lot of space for batteries, sensors, electric engines, etc. And it wouldn’t make any sense to say “here is a teaser for a concept that will show our future” and also show a real future model...
 
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Deusex

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I think the second prototype (next to the ES) is just a test mule GX for the running gear of the yet to be revelead concept (perhaps the RZ450e concept).

I think this because it really looks like a GX and it doesn’t do a lot of sense to make a BEV with, what it seems, so bad aero. Aerodinamics makes a huge impact in real world range on BEV’s...

Also, GX would provide a lot of space for batteries, sensors, electric engines, etc. And it wouldn’t make any sense to say “here is a teaser for a concept that will show our future” and also show a real future model...

Not a GX but next gen RX.
 

internalaudit

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A front/rear torque distribution system is still a torque vectoring system. In this case it actually works better than left/right vectoring while using less hardware.

It seems Toyota does not want a 3-motor interim solution with front/rear vectoring and rear left/right vectoring and would instead go from 2-motor to 4-motor directly, and it makes total sense.

For non-electric motors, I totally agree left/right torque vectoring is an added complexity but it still adds a lot of fun in corners as per countless reviews of the RDX and TLX. SH-AWD definitely trumps most of these basic AWD systems with front/rear torque vectoring detecting slippage.

For electric motors, three motors would always be cheaper than four so I would probably settle for tri-motor setups with electric torque vectoring, of course at the rear. I don't think tri-motors is an interim set up. It's just much better than dual motors with mechanical torque vectoring like you find in the Taycan (but then the Taycan is built for speed and cornering though discerning buyers still opt for 4WS and PTV Plus) and probably cheaper than quad motors.

Yesterday, Toyota announced commercial SSB by the early 2020's so that 2025 target had been drawn forward a year or two or even three. :)

I initially thought the LF was going to have in-wheel motors but that probably only makes sense for SUV's and trucks that are heavier and don't have to astound with their 0-60 numbers.
 
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Gecko

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I think the second prototype (next to the ES) is just a test mule GX for the running gear of the yet to be revelead concept (perhaps the RZ450e concept).

I think this because it really looks like a GX and it doesn’t do a lot of sense to make a BEV with, what it seems, so bad aero. Aerodinamics makes a huge impact in real world range on BEV’s...

Also, GX would provide a lot of space for batteries, sensors, electric engines, etc. And it wouldn’t make any sense to say “here is a teaser for a concept that will show our future” and also show a real future model...

Certainly not a GX - that would be much larger. And my hunch is Direct4 will be available on FWD-biased TNGA platforms, whereas GX is BOF and the next gen "F1" platform hasn't been revealed yet. This is more likely to be next gen NX, RX, or a new FWD-biased/TNGA-K crossover.
 
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This kinda convinces me that the production LF-1 may not be offered in a gasoline-only option. Lexus previously only had an AWD system in cars other than the LX and GX that drives the front tires normally, and sends power to the rear only when traction is needed (not 100% sure of my accuracy here). Lexus needed a proper dynamic AWD system to compete with the likes of Quattro, xDrive and 4MATIC in cars like the Q7, X5, etc. in order to have a competitive full-sized SUV like the LF-1.

Now Lexus has introduced a system, but it only works with electrified vehicles. If my hypothesis is true, this also means we probably won't see a V8 powered F-SUV ever.
The rear wheel drive GS and IS have the option of AWD. So Lexus has had RWD based AWD systems for quite some time.
 
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