MKV Toyota Supra Master Thread (2021 gets power bump + 4cyl model)

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I think we should take all Toyota/Lexus "insider info" with a grain of salt or two or three lol. A recent internal email basically said if you get caught sharing any info there would be consequences. If its not coming from someone directly working on the program and its told to you in confidence then its probably not true. The new IS was a perfect example of early developer ideas getting out and kind of ruining the reveal. imagine if we had no idea of a higher output option? Plus everyone is working remotely and doesn't have full details on the projects they're working on and that new secret test track? I see the Toyota rumors drying up.

But in regards to the Zupra, i would love to see an all Toyota A100. I think we shouldn't get our hopes up about anything too crazy (transaxle, hybrids, ultra high output engines etc) with the way the industry is moving i think an all electric A100 is probably in the ideas. I know alot of people were dissapointed by just how much BMW is in the A90, we all knew it would be part BMW but i for one didnt see a badge engineered supra as likely untill it came out.
 

supra93

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Just posted on the MKV forum. Maybe @super51fan and myself were both wrong and right at the same time. 🤣

https://bestcarweb.jp/news/scoop/171830

Finally grabbed!! Supra GRMN appearance information capture! Demonstrate 520 horsepower with the M3 engine!!!

■M3/M4 in-line 6-cylinder 3L turbo installed will be decided!!!
 The Supra powertrain is made by BMW. Then, of course, it is "M" that emerges as a high performance version.

 Exactly as it is, it was decided that the Supra GRMN, which will be introduced in 2023 in a limited number of 200, will be equipped with an inline 6-cylinder 3L turbo that will be installed in the M3/M4.

The current M4CS shows 460ps/61.2kgm, but the performance has been further improved for the next M4, and the maximum output for the Supra GRMN is 520ps and the maximum torque is 62kgm.

 The transmission to be combined is a 7-speed M-DCT, and it was said that the BMW side initially showed difficulty in supplying this powertrain to Toyota, but Tetsuya Tada said that it was achieved with the efforts of CE.

Naturally, the GR development team is fully committed to tuning chassis related to the high power unit, and the knowledge gained at the Nur 24 Hours race will be utilized to the maximum.

 What is interesting is that there is no plan to install this M unit in the BMW Z4, which was developed in parallel.

 On the BMW side, it seems that the aim is to utilize this performance with the new closed-body M3/M4 instead of the open Z4.

 There is also information that Supra will complete its model life in 2025 and that there will be no next model.

 The Supra GRMN, which will appear at least in 2023, will be the final edition of the current Supra. Is the price about 12 million yen?
 

super51fan

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Just posted on the MKV forum. Maybe @super51fan and myself were both wrong and right at the same time. 🤣

https://bestcarweb.jp/news/scoop/171830
There is also information that Supra will complete its model life in 2025 and that there will be no next model.

The Supra GRMN, which will appear at least in 2023, will be the final edition of the current Supra. Is the price about 12 million yen?
This part is rather interesting. If I am understanding this correctly, the GRMN will be the last special edition and if there is a special edition every year than the GRMN will signify the last production year. So is it 2023, 2024, or 2025? 2023 seems too early to end production but goes in line with what my brother has mentioned, and on the other hand 2025 seems too late to release a performance model. Also if they wait until 2025, I believe the yearly upgrades and special editions will be rather lackluster.

Edit: Also 200 units is rather ridiculous. If they want 'GRMN' to compete with AMG, ///M, and RS, the car needs to be somewhat attainable (and to use their own engine but that is a conversation for another day.) Hopefully it isn't a Japan only release
 
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This part is rather interesting. If I am understanding this correctly, the GRMN will be the last special edition and if there is a special edition every year than the GRMN will signify the last production year. So is it 2023, 2024, or 2025? 2023 seems too early to end production but goes in line with what my brother has mentioned, and on the other hand 2025 seems too late to release a performance model. Also if they wait until 2025, I believe the yearly upgrades and special editions will be rather lackluster.

Edit: Also 200 units is rather ridiculous. If they want 'GRMN' to compete with AMG, ///M, and RS, the car needs to be somewhat attainable (and to use their own engine but that is a conversation for another day.) Hopefully it isn't a Japan only release
I mentioned this in SupraMkV and y'all can see my comment there, but I smell a WHOLE lot of bullshit here.
 

super51fan

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I mentioned this in SupraMkV and y'all can see my comment there, but I smell a WHOLE lot of bullshit here.
Finally, I don't have any issues with the power output. In fact, this is what I expect from the Supra GRMN and nothing less to be honest. This is the modern A80 Supra Turbo but on steroids. Anyways that's not the point. My question is do you guys really think BMW would be okay with giving Toyota an engine and allow them to tune the car higher than BMW's own M cars? It seems like a recipe for BMW to get fucked over real good unless the rumor of the Supra GRMN 200 units are true.
This is what gets me the most. I don't see BMW "handing" over hardware that will beat out both M4 and M2 both on track and on paper to a direct performance competitor.

I could see the power levels being real if they had vastly different powerplants to differentiate the Supra from the M4 and M2. Not that it would happen but this could be solved with a GR tuned V35a* since a V6 versus inline 6 may be enough to separate them on the market. I would hate to see the GRMN Supra not get the performance it deserves because its being held back by the M2.

Edit: *or GR tuned hybrid B58.
 
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super51fan

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I totally forgot about this one, but the Zupra could have been a mid-engine sports car.

Isn't the 4 cylinder almost front-midengined? Too bad that there isn't an engine that is 3 cylinders in length but functions like a 6 cylinder to put the entire motor behind the front axle.
 

super51fan

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I didn't conveniently leave out the other parts. I left them out because they don't have as much relevance to the point I'm trying to make, and your other points were extremely weak anyways so I ignored them. According to recent insider news, Toyota and Tada-san had the balls to snag the BMW 7-speed DCT and their S58 engine. Tada-san in particular was eyeing BMW's 7-speed DCT for a few years and really wants to put it in the Supra (I personally don't like this idea but whatever). You're telling me that BMW couldn't have shut it down if they really didn't want to? You're just grossly ignoring the fact that Toyota has a lot more influence in this project than you think they do and was able to pull this move off as a result of their influence.
Toyota has a lot of influence, I would even go as far to say that they have a ton of leverage right now because BMW desperately needs hybrid tech. But having influence and having control aren't the same thing, I really think you're confusing the two and that is causing this misunderstanding.

Of course Toyota has full control of exterior colors, styling, interior options, etc. but they don't when it comes engine and transmission options. This is also why there is no 6mt option even though the car was developed by a guy who is obsessed with Porsche. Of course Toyota can request more power or different transmissions, but if BMW says no then they are SOL. Even Markus Flasch indicated a request would have to be made, thus showing Toyota is not at will to do as they please.

Again I am not saying that BMW would ever say 'no' in the mutually beneficial partnership, but to say they have control is not true.

You're now just bringing points from left field to confuse others lol. Your talk about BMW doing the emissions testing is flat-out asinine. So what? You do realize that Toyota paid off BMW engineers to do mileage testing for them then send the data back to Japan? Okay so BMW does emissions testing what is that supposed to mean? Just because BMW does emissions testing for the Supra means that Toyota can't do as they please when it comes to the Supra? It's THEIR car. Point is, Toyota asked BMW to do all sorts of stuff for them from when the car was being developed and now as well. From that, Toyota were able to act upon those things that BMW has done for Toyota like the mileage testing, testing individual parts, etc.. I'm not denying that there are some elements where BMW is in control, however if Toyota were able to snag the S58 and the 7-speed DCT like I mentioned previously, then Toyota is more in control than you think.
How is receiving permission to use a very limited number of engines show they are in control?

Also, Toyota is planning on hybridizing all of their vehicles or adding a hybrid option by 2025. That 2025 date is also coincidentally when BMW is going to cease producing the Z4. You're seriously telling me that if Toyota wanted to, they couldn't extend the life cycle of the A90 Supra?
No that isn't what I am saying.

Now after this do you still want to accuse me of "drinking too much of the SupraMkV Kool-Aid" again?
Yeah
 
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Toyota has a lot of influence, I would even go as far to say that they have a ton of leverage right now because BMW desperately needs hybrid tech. But having influence and having control aren't the same thing, I really think you're confusing the two and that is causing this misunderstanding.

Of course Toyota has full control of exterior colors, styling, interior options, etc. but they don't when it comes engine and transmission options. This is also why there is no 6mt option even though the car was developed by a guy who is obsessed with Porsche. Of course Toyota can request more power or different transmissions, but if BMW says no then they are SOL. Even Markus Flasch indicated a request would have to be made, thus showing Toyota is not at will to do as they please.

Again I am not saying that BMW would ever say 'no' in the mutually beneficial partnership, but to say they have control is not true.



How is receiving permission to use a very limited number of engines show they are in control?



No that isn't what I am saying.



Yeah
It's funny now you're backpedaling but you still have the balls to say I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. Have fun living in your delusion.
 

super51fan

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It's funny now you're backpedaling but you still have the balls to say I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. Have fun living in your delusion.
I'm not backpedaling on anything. I stand behind everything I said. You tried arguing with me that Toyota doesn't have to ask BMW to increase power on their motor, yet they have to abide by BMW's production schedule. You used the GRMN rumor to prove Toyota is in control, when in reality that actually hurts your case since it shows Toyota can't break free from BMW's oversight. You don't understand the difference between 'control' and 'influence.'

You're deflecting. You didn't even address what I said. I am sorry if "daddy BMW" triggered you, but there is no need to have an emotional response here.
 
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super51fan

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No need for a show. I just think the car could be better while utilizing existing resources and the existing partnership.
 
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