Mazda developing new Skyactiv-X / Skyactiv-D inline 6

mikeavelli

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http://www.autonews.com/article/201...a-delays-skyactiv-diesel-launch-in-u.s.-again

Maybe some of you remember the highly anticipated Mazda diesel engines and how they continue to get postponed. It just popped in my head to do some back reading on the issue. Some good reading if you google around.

A key technological difference Mazda hoped would set it apart from competitors' diesels was that its Skyactiv engines would be engineered to meet U.S. emissions requirements without the added cost and complexity of exhaust after-treatment systems. Other automakers use the systems to reduce the nitrous oxide output of their diesel cars in the United States.

"There are challenges with meeting the emissions standards without after-treatment systems," Barnes said. "We believed our Skyactiv technology can meet it -- and it can -- but the challenge is engineering a car that delivers the kind of performance that a Mazda needs to have and we're unable to do that given where we are right now."

Following the delays, Barnes said Mazda engineers are now looking at re-engineering the Skyactiv diesel engine to include either a nitrous oxide-reduction catalyst or a urea after-treatment system to cut NOx emissions. The company is also looking at ways to continue without after-treatment, Barnes said.
 

mmcartalk

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but the challenge is engineering a car that delivers the kind of performance that a Mazda needs to have and we're unable to do that given where we are right now."

It sounds to me like what Barnes is saying is that the company is not sure they can do it without following in VW's footsteps.
 

IS-SV

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I remember this well (having purchased a Mazda CX-5 in early 2012), it's been dragging on for years.

In light of recent diesel developments (and I don't mean only with VW), I'm wondering if this might get pushed further back on to back burner.
 

mmcartalk

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In light of recent diesel developments (and I don't mean only with VW), I'm wondering if this might get pushed further back on to back burner.

Quite likely.

On a slightly unrelated note, I can remember my own first brand-new Mazda....back in 1984. Superb chassis/steering system, but the gas in-line four was so agricultural-like in its NVH characteristics that, compared to silky-smooth Honda/Toyota fours, it might as well have been a diesel LOL.
 

Och

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Would be great if Mazda's engineers could chime in on this directly and give their honest outlook. They did come up with a clever way to greatly reduce the amount of soot their skyactiv direct injected engines produce compared to other direct injected engines. These skyactiv engines are designed to allow for ignition timing delay until the piston has already started and moved several degrees of the power stroke - allowing for more time for fuel to properly mix with air and therefore burn more cleanly and efficiently. This is however not possible on a diesel engine, since diesel fuel ignites from compression and burns spontaneously as it is being injected.
 

mmcartalk

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Would be great if Mazda's engineers could chime in on this directly and give their honest outlook. They did come up with a clever way to greatly reduce the amount of soot their skyactiv direct injected engines produce compared to other direct injected engines. These skyactiv engines are designed to allow for ignition timing delay until the piston has already started and moved several degrees of the power stroke - allowing for more time for fuel to properly mix with air and therefore burn more cleanly and efficiently. This is however not possible on a diesel engine, since diesel fuel ignites from compression and burns spontaneously as it is being injected.

Though difficult, it is, theoretically, possible on a diesel......but it requires a very careful mix of the air/diesel-fuel mixture at any given engine-operating temperature (assuming any impurities in the fuel, if applicable, are separated), to get the compression-stroke to set the mixture off at the desired point on the stroke.
 

Och

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Though difficult, it is, theoretically, possible on a diesel......but it requires a very careful mix of the air/diesel-fuel mixture at any given engine-operating temperature (assuming any impurities in the fuel, if applicable, are separated), to get the compression-stroke to set the mixture off at the desired point on the stroke.

Thats almost guaranteed to end up with premature ignition and destroy the engine.
 

mmcartalk

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Thats almost guaranteed to end up with premature ignition and destroy the engine.


Not necessarily guaranteed, but, yes, it can be critical. That's why I wouldn't want to be the engineer working on it. ;)
 

Och

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Not necessarily guaranteed, but, yes, it can be critical. That's why I wouldn't want to be the engineer working on it. ;)

But when it comes to the current issues with diesels, be it VW's fiasco or Mazda's delays, I'd rather see some factual statements from engineers that work on these engines, not the sugar coated marketing bs from the smooth talking PR heads.
 

mmcartalk

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But when it comes to the current issues with diesels, be it VW's fiasco or Mazda's delays, I'd rather see some factual statements from engineers that work on these engines, not the sugar coated marketing bs from the smooth talking PR heads.

I'll certainly agree with you on auto marketers. Few people on this planet, outside of Al-Qaeda and ISIS, irk me more than they do. They can drive you up a wall. I'd rather deal with my 11th grade English teacher. LOL
 
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Och

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There is something else to consider - being that Japanese are very proud and determined people, I can only imagine how many sleepless nights Mazda's engineers have spent trying to design their skyactiv clean diesel, working with a MUCH smaller budget than huge VW group, and how humiliated they must have felt not being able to match what everyone thought VW has achieved until the truth came out.
 

mmcartalk

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There is something else to consider - being that Japanese are very proud and determined people, I can only imagine how many sleepless nights Mazda's engineers have spent trying to design their skyactiv clean diesel, working with a MUCH smaller budget than huge VW group, and how humiliated they must have felt not being able to match what everyone thought VW has achieved until the truth came out.


Mazda engineeers, though, over the years, have a lot to be proud of themselves for. Their legendary "Kansai" chassis/steering engineering produced a vehicle that was truly enjoyable to drive...and got them the reputation "Poor Man's BMW". I drove Mazdas exclusively, myself, from 1984 to 1995, and owned three brand-new ones. Their engines weren't always something to write home about, often lacking the smoothness/refinement of similiar Toyota/Honda engines....but the driving dynamics were usually first-rate, with tolerable if not smooth ride comfort. Their main problems were with Ford's long ownership restricting much of what they could market/sell, and that silly "Zoom-Zoom" theme (I don't why they don't get rid of it, now that Ford's mantle over them is gone).
 

Och

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Mazda engineeers, though, over the years, have a lot to be proud of themselves for. Their legendary "Kansai" chassis/steering engineering produced a vehicle that was truly enjoyable to drive...and got them the reputation "Poor man's BMW". I drove Mazdas exclusively, myself, from 1984 to 1995, and owned three brand-new ones. Their engines weren't always something to write home about, often lacking the smoothness/refinement of similiar Toyota/Honda engines....but the driving dynamics were usually first-rate, with tolerable if not smooth ride comfort. Their main problems where with Ford's long ownership restricting much of what they could market/sell, and that silly "Zoom-Zoom" theme (I don't why that don't get rid of it, now that Ford's mantle over them is gone).

Well, I still have the lease on a 2013 Mazda 3 in my name, although I gave it to one of my employees to drive around - and I can attest that it has an excellent chassis. For being an inexpensive econobox, the chassis and body feels extremely rigid, there is no body twisting or squeaking of any kind, and it rides like a good sport sedan. Unfortunately it is too vegetarian for my tastes with it's wrong wheel drive and only 150hp.
 

mmcartalk

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Unfortunately it is too vegetarian for my tastes with it's wrong wheel drive and only 150hp.


That's one reason why I said their engines often aren't anything to write home about. The company may recognize that, and could be one of the reasons why, as you posted earlier, they have delayed their diesels. But they did, of course, market rotary-engines when no other U.S.-market manufacturer would (and, yes...ripped customers off on the price of parts for rotaries LOL) ....so that proved they they were indeed willing to try some unconventional stuff.
 

Och

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That's one reason why I said their engines often aren't anything to write home about. The company may recognize that, and could be one of the reasons why, as you posted earlier, they have delayed their diesels. But they did, of course, market rotary-engines when no other U.S.-market manufacturer would (and, yes...ripped customers off on the price of parts for rotaries LOL) ....so that proved they they were indeed willing to try some unconventional stuff.

I would say that the power their Skyactiv engines produce is nothing to write home about, which is basically on par with other modern engines of similar displacement. But these Skyactiv engines are very impressive when it comes to fuel economy (I think they once had the highest rating in class), very smooth (smoother than even BMW 4 cylinder engine), and have clever ignition timing delay to help reduce emissions that is very hard to implement on a high compression motor. Skyactiv has one of the highest, if not the highest compression ratios for NA engines.

Then they have the Mazdaspeed division, and these Mazdaspeed engines are very powerful. They are less powerful than some of the crazy Mitsu EVOs and Subaru STIs, but they are also more driveable in the lower RPM range.
 

mmcartalk

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I would say that the power their Skyactiv engines produce is nothing to write home about, which is basically on par with other modern engines of similar displacement. But these Skyactiv engines are very impressive when it comes to fuel economy (I think they once had the highest rating in class), very smooth (smoother than even BMW 4 cylinder engine), and have clever ignition timing delay to help reduce emissions that is very hard to implement on a high compression motor. Skyactiv has one of the highest, if not the highest compression ratios for NA engines.
Yes, I agree that the Skyactiv engines are superior to older ones. I wasn't all that impressed with the engines in the Mazdas I owned (which were not up to the level of the chassis), but that was some time ago.
 

mmcartalk

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BTW, Och, somewhat off-topic, but potentially important: I remember what you went through with Sandy and the loss of a vehicle. If you are still living in that part of NYC, keep a close watch on the weather forecast for the next several days, with Hurricane Joaquin moving north. It will probably by-pass our part of the coast (models are indicating that, if they are accurate). It will be somewhat closer to your area, but still not clear if NYC itself will be at risk.
 

Och

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BTW, Och, somewhat off-topic, but potentially important: I remember what you went through with Sandy and the loss of a vehicle. If you are still living in that part of NYC, keep a close watch on the weather forecast for the next several days, with Hurricane Joaquin moving north. It will probably by-pass our part of the coast (models are indicating that, if they are accurate). It will be somewhat closer to your area, but still not clear if NYC itself will be at risk.

I know, I'm dreading it. If it hits again, I'm probably just going to move to higher grounds somewhere in NJ or upstate NY. I don't think I can handle another Sandy.
 

maiaramdan

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https://jalopnik-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/jalopnik.com/mazda-challenges-bmw-and-mercedes-shames-toyota-with-d-1834636620/amp?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://jalopnik.com/mazda-challenges-bmw-and-mercedes-shames-toyota-with-d-1834636620

Mazda will have soon an inline 6 cylinders engine to be the only current Japanese manufacturer have in-house made inline 6

Can we see this engine in any Toyota or Lexus soon or can this be a sign or start point that the Japanese will ramp a sporty FR as 70's-90's time

This is from TTAC
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2...da-confirms-new-inline-engine-in-development/
 

flexus

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Don't forget FR Mazda 9 and FR coupe, new Mazda 6, RX9, Mazda 2 REX. There will be PHEVs too and Mazda is shifting upmarket like Volvo did in past 20 years.