Lexus USA Promises "14 (now 17) New Products" in 2018

[Joaquin Ruhi]

A Toyota/Lexus news release reveals the carmaker's big reveal for the 2018 CES show in Las Vegas: the Toyota Research Institute's next-generation automated driving research vehicle, Platform 3.0, based on the outgoing Lexus LS 600h.

http://pressroom.lexus.com/releases...on+automated+driving+research+vehicle+ces.htm

Does this count towards the 15 new Lexus products or concepts for 2018? I suspect not, partly because this was developed under the aegis of the Toyota Research Institute, and not a Lexus project per se, and partly because its reveal precedes by about a week that of the LF-1 Limitless concept confirmed by Lexus to be the first of the 15.

 

[maiaramdan]

Nope
This LS won't be within the 15 for 2 reasons

1) it is a tech. body for all TMC
2) it doesn't have a new unique body

 

[krew]

A Toyota/Lexus news release reveals the carmaker's big reveal for the 2018 CES show in Las Vegas: the Toyota Research Institute's next-generation automated driving research vehicle, Platform 3.0, based on the outgoing Lexus LS 600h.

http://pressroom.lexus.com/releases...on+automated+driving+research+vehicle+ces.htm

Does this count towards the 15 new Lexus products or concepts for 2018? I suspect not, partly because this was developed under the aegis of the Toyota Research Institute, and not a Lexus project per se, and partly because its reveal precedes by about a week that of the LF-1 Limitless concept confirmed by Lexus to be the first of the 15.

I love when people answer their own questions.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Will Lexus just settle on a number already? We've already gone from 14 to 15, and now, towards the end of the LF-1 Limitless press conference, Lexus USA Group Vice President and General Manager Jeff Bracken states that "For 2018...Lexus will showcase 17 new concepts, special editions, and all-new models". (His comment starts around the 31:24 mark of the LF-1 Limitless press conference video).

They do appear to be counting RX L, RX L Hybrid, 2-row LX and LC Inspiration Series as part of the 17, but it is less clear whether or not they're counting 5LS and 5LS Hybrid.

Here's a tally thus far:
1) LF-1 Limitless Concept
2) RX L
3) RX L Hybrid
4) 2-row LX
5) LC Inspiration Series

and maybe:
6) 5th-gen LS
7) 5th-gen LS Hybrid

 

[maiaramdan]

@Joaquin Ruhi

The 14 was meant to be for what will be revealed in 2018

And as RX-L (hybrid/gasoline) & the LX 2 rows revealed in 2017 so you can peacefully remove them from the 14

 

[mikeavelli]

@Joaquin Ruhi

The 14 was meant to be for what will be revealed in 2018

And as RX-L (hybrid/gasoline) & the LX 2 rows revealed in 2017 so you can peacefully remove them from the 14

Apparently the Spectral Blue LC is counted as one....

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Apparently the Spectral Blue LC is counted as one....

Yes, that would be the LC Inspiration Series which I mentioned as #5.

@Joaquin Ruhi

The 14 was meant to be for what will be revealed in 2018

And as RX-L (hybrid/gasoline) & the LX 2 rows revealed in 2017 so you can peacefully remove them from the 14

I don't know what to think anymore! :weary_face::confounded:

You're right as far as what the press release upping the count from 14 to 15 said. But at the LF-1 press conference, right after the "17 New Models" announcement, Jeff Bracken specifically showed images of and mentioned RX L, RX L Hybrid, 2-row LX and LC Inspiration Series as "going on sale next month".

Perhaps the thing to do, then, is run two lists, one with whatever is revealed in calendar year 2018 and another with whatever was revealed during calendar year 2017 but not going on sale until 2018. Then, at the end of this year, if the "revealed in calendar year 2018" list comes up short, then we'll know that some if not all of the 6 models on the second list really belonged on the first.

Here are the updated (for now) lists:

SURE (revealed during calendar year 2018)
1) LF-1 Limitless concept

MAYBE (revealed in 2017 but going on sale in 2018)
1) 5th-gen LS
2) 5th-gen LS Hybrid
3) LC Inspiration Series
4) RX L
5) RX L Hybrid
6) 2-row LX

 

[ydooby]

Now that the new Avalon is out, it's about time the ES gets a redesign in 2018 as well (or if it's meant to be a replacement for the GS, even better and even more past-due).

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Now that the new Avalon is out, it's about time the ES gets a redesign in 2018 as well (or if it's meant to be a replacement for the GS, even better and even more past-due).

There are 4 major auto shows coming up between now and late April. They are:

- Chicago (press days Thursday 8 & Friday 9 February)
- Geneva (press days Tuesday 6 & Wednesday 7 March)
- New York (press days Wednesday 28 & Thursday 29 March)
- Beijing (press days Wednesday 25 & Thursday 26 April)

One or more of them is bound to be the venue for the 7ES debut. Geneva is unlikely (given that ES has never been sold in Western Europe) unless the rumors are true that more enthusiast-oriented AWD and F-Sport versions of ES would serve as de facto replacements for GS, in which case a Geneva debut would make quite a statement. Still, Geneva makes more sense for the UX debut. North America and China, on the other hand, are ES's major markets.

 

[mikeavelli]

The current ES debuted at the NYC Auto Show.... so NYC is likely again. I need to check up on Intersect and when that debuts...
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1074628_all-new-lexus-es-sedan-to-debut-in-new-york

 

[krew]

I don't know what to think anymore! :weary_face::confounded:

Don't go crazy, Joaquin!

I confirmed at the show that gas and hybrid are counted at separate models, which makes sense considering how the number keeps climbing. F SPORT does not count though.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

The current ES debuted at the NYC Auto Show.... so NYC is likely again.

True, but, with its Avalon fraternal twin already revealed in Detroit, don't rule out Chicago next month as a possibility. After all, that's precisely where the 5th-gen ES was first unveiled, on February 2006.

 

[krew]

True, but, with its Avalon fraternal twin already revealed in Detroit, don't rule out Chicago next month as a possibility. After all, that's precisely where the 5th-gen ES was first unveiled, on February 2006.

I think Lexus will debut the new ES at the Beijing Auto Show at the end of April. China is the second biggest market for Lexus in the world, and the ES is the top-selling model there. Hosting a new model debut has to be considered a great honor, and honestly, China deserves it.

 

[spwolf]

I think Lexus will debut the new ES at the Beijing Auto Show at the end of April. China is the second biggest market for Lexus in the world, and the ES is the top-selling model there. Hosting a new model debut has to be considered a great honor, and honestly, China deserves it.

Or could be in Geneva, to introduce it finally in European market.

 

[ssun30]

I think Lexus will debut the new ES at the Beijing Auto Show at the end of April. China is the second biggest market for Lexus in the world, and the ES is the top-selling model there. Hosting a new model debut has to be considered a great honor, and honestly, China deserves it.

And they need that mandatory 'ES-L' if they want to succeed.

 

[spwolf]

And they need that mandatory 'ES-L' if they want to succeed.

new platform and product seems like perfect time for it... or they might just stretch the wheelbase of standard ES? Like they did with LS.

 

[maiaramdan]

The ES need to be the same length or even little bit shorter if they will put it in the executive class as E/5/A6

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

And they need that mandatory 'ES-L' if they want to succeed.

new platform and product seems like perfect time for it... or they might just stretch the wheelbase of standard ES? Like they did with LS.

But will they actually do it? And, if so, to what extent? Will we see 7ES in two different wheelbases and lengths? Doing so would be a "monkey see/monkey do" copycat reply to what the German luxury 3, Cadillac, Infiniti and Volvo have done in the Chinese market. It would certainly be less costly and complicated to offer SWB and LWB versions of the FWD-only ES, since there would be no need for the added expense of producing 2 different length driveshafts to transmit power to the rear wheels.

On the other hand, Lexus' latest products have moved away from offering multiple wheelbase options. 5LS only comes in a single long wheelbase, breaking ranks and precedent from its German luxury 3 archrivals. And short and long versions of 4RX share a common wheelbase, with all the added length of the latter going strictly into the rear overhang. This whole ES L discussion goes back to the launch of 6ES in 2012. My Kaizen Factor writeup from the 6ES long-lead press preview contains this passage:

In a marvel of space efficiency, while the wheelbase has grown 1.8″ and overall length has stretched by just 1″ versus the previous (5th-gen) ES, rear seat head, knee and legroom have all increased, the latter by a whopping 4.1″, essentially matching the length increase of many of the Germans’ (and the Jaguar XJ’s) short-vs-long-wheelbase offerings. Does this come at the expense of front seat legroom or trunk space? Front seat legroom did see a nominal decrease (from 42.2″ to 41.9″), as did front hip room and rear shoulder room. Trunk space, on the other hand, is also larger, growing from 14.8 cubic feet in the previous 5th-gen ES to 15.2 in the new ES 350. The hybrid ES 300h loses 3.1 cubic feet of trunk capacity in order to accommodate its battery pack. Overall EPA passenger volume grows from 95.4 cubic feet in the previous ES 350 to 100.1 cubic feet in the new generation, regardless of powertrain. This growth spurt, however, is not enough to push it into the admittedly arbitrary U.S. EPA Large car class, which requires a sum of Passenger + Cargo volume of 120 cubic feet or greater, a bogey the ES 350 misses by 4.7 cubic feet

Bringing this comparison forward to what little we know of the dimensions of the TNGA-K platform 5th-gen Toyota Avalon (which should continue to be a fraternal twin to the next Lexus ES), we see a further 2" wheelbase stretch (from 111"/2820mm to 113'"/2870mm) and a 1.1"/28mm increase in rear legroom versus its predecessor.

I could be wrong, of course, but I'm going to stick my neck out and predict that the 7th-gen Lexus ES will continue to be offered in only one size and wheelbase for all world markets. (For the record, it is believed that the next generation of Cadillac sedans will also move towards offering only one length and wheelbase for all world markets).

 

[ssun30]

The ES need to be the same length or even little bit shorter if they will put it in the executive class as E/5/A6

No it's the opposite. The three you mentioned are all over 4.9 m long, and the LWB versions are almost the same size as the S/7/A8. The ES is actually shorter. Growing the 7ES by some 50 mm shouldn't be something of a surprise.

But will they actually do it? And, if so, to what extent? Will we see 7ES in two different wheelbases and lengths? Doing so would be a "monkey see/monkey do" copycat reply to what the German luxury 3, Cadillac, Infiniti and Volvo have done in the Chinese market. It would certainly be less costly and complicated to offer SWB and LWB versions of the FWD-only ES, since there would be no need for the added expense of producing 2 different length driveshafts to transmit power to the rear wheels.

On the other hand, Lexus' latest products have moved away from offering multiple wheelbase options. 5LS only comes in a single long wheelbase, breaking ranks and precedent from its German luxury 3 archrivals. And short and long versions of 4RX share a common wheelbase, with all the added length of the latter going strictly into the rear overhang. This whole ES L discussion goes back to the launch of 6ES in 2012. My Kaizen Factor writeup from the 6ES long-lead press preview contains this passage:

Bringing this comparison forward to what little we know of the dimensions of the TNGA-K platform 5th-gen Toyota Avalon (which should continue to be a fraternal twin to the next Lexus ES), we see a further 2" wheelbase stretch (from 111"/2820mm to 113'"/2870mm) and a 1.1"/28mm increase in rear legroom versus its predecessor.

I could be wrong, of course, but I'm going to stick my neck out and predict that the 7th-gen Lexus ES will continue to be offered in only one size and wheelbase for all world markets. (For the record, it is believed that the next generation of Cadillac sedans will also move towards offering only one length and wheelbase for all world markets).

We shall see. There is no solid information yet that Lexus won't be making a LWB LS aka. the S-class Maybach challenger. And I think they do need to make one and put a "really prestigious" V8 hybrid in it. Lexus is trying to play the high-value segment game like MB, so that thing makes sense.

And an "ES-L" would make a ton of sense in China even if it's just a copycat move. There is a very large market segment (mostly corporate use) that requires a full-size premium sedan but not in the S/7/A8/LS price territory. That's the segment Caddy/Lincoln/Volvo have established a comfortable presence in. The 'pleb-trim' LWB E-class/5 Series are in the game as well. The formula is pretty simple: lots of space and gimmicks, a really soft ride, and a sufficient engine (preferably with six cylinders); driving dynamics has zero relevance, sounds like something the 3LS would serve perfectly.

This segment exists because of an extremely large gap between stretched mid-size vehicles and full-size luxury vehicles caused by the import tariff, making true flagships prohibitively expensive. In the U.S. the difference is $50-70k vs $80-100k which is roughly 50%. But in China it's $50-100k vs $150-300k (a 200% difference). Currently the ES does very well in the $50-60k sub-segment, but if it wants to have a presence in the higher end of the spectrum, the ES-L (with four seat executive trim) is a must.

For many business people, that all-important 'L' badge yells 'I'm a successful person' and impresses guests. The flagship sedan market is under serious threat from flagship crossovers, but stretched mid-size sedans are relatively safe because of their intended function (business people don't like being shuttled in SUVs). An ES/LS two-car strategy will definitely NOT work in China without the GS, but the GS will become something else so ES-L needs to exist.

I don't think the ES-L has the reason to exist anywhere else, just like the Lincoln Continental which has no place in its home country.

 

[spwolf]

@ssun30 @Joaquin Ruhi question here is if 2" wheelbase stretch, same as Avalon, will be good enough here for all markets. While on paper, cars like regular 5 series have a lot longer wheelbase, in reality their rear seats are cramped (same goes for GS, A6, E series) compared to the Avalon/ES.

I do wish they finally make it available here in Europe. Most A6/5/E are sold with 2.0 diesels, basically similar to 300h and with pretty base equipment.