Lexus Has Cancelled the GS Sedan

[AdamS]

With the sales of sedans continuing to go down, I think Lexus realizes that they have to get rid of one of their sedans.
My guess is Lexus management sees their sedans shaping up like this:

IS: Grow the next gen for better interior space, will have same engine options as the GS would have(return of IS F) Personally, I believe the compact sedans are more important then the midsize cars, and without the GS it will be easier to add more luxury and amenities to the IS. This is their BMW fighter
ES: Mid Size option, more comfort then sport, but possibly add AWD option. It's worth pointing out that Audi's are all FWD with a AWD option, and Toyota seems pretty proud of the handling of the new global platform which the ES will go on. This is their Audi fighter
LS: Obviously flagship sedan, probably feels sales will improve if the GS option is taken away. This is their Mercedes fighter

 

[mikeavelli]

It's a bit confusing as the GS has never sold better worldwide...so not sure what to make of this...

No one told Lexus to offer the LS as a V-6 only initially. That should have no bearing on the GS. Just give the GS the same optional motor. What is the issue? The Germans do it all the time.

 

[maiaramdan]

Honestly
The GS is my car for its third 450h and fourth F generations

And I really don't see myself riding LS especially after cancellation of the SWB

So there's much more room for the next GS to get bigger and this will effect also the IS which needs hardly to be bigger

Honestly no GS = no Lexus
GS is always the small sporty LS.

And no the ES is not a Lexus , ES is not a Toyota , ES like ugly creature and just get more people because it's different.

ES is killing all TMC .
It's killing Avalon , Camry , Crown , Mark , GS & IS sales
For me I will wait to see if this crazy true or not . because the day I see this crazy is true will be my last day with TMC

And believe me TMC already lost a lot of people by deletion of the NA LS V8

 

[Gecko]

With the sales of sedans continuing to go down, I think Lexus realizes that they have to get rid of one of their sedans.
My guess is Lexus management sees their sedans shaping up like this:

IS: Grow the next gen for better interior space, will have same engine options as the GS would have(return of IS F) Personally, I believe the compact sedans are more important then the midsize cars, and without the GS it will be easier to add more luxury and amenities to the IS. This is their BMW fighter
ES: Mid Size option, more comfort then sport, but possibly add AWD option. It's worth pointing out that Audi's are all FWD with a AWD option, and Toyota seems pretty proud of the handling of the new global platform which the ES will go on. This is their Audi fighter
LS: Obviously flagship sedan, probably feels sales will improve if the GS option is taken away. This is their Mercedes fighter

I think you are hitting the nail on the head. My sense is that Lexus thinks they can probably add a bigger engine to the ES, an AWD option, and maybe an F Sport option (with standard AWD) and grab most of the GS shoppers. I just don't see this being the case, personally. There is a clear understanding that the ES is an entry level product and the GS has been the premium sports sedan... it's been this way for 20+ years.

 

[Rob Grieveson]

Well first of all, the GS needs a huge makeover. The interior just isn't competitive enough compared to the competition:

That is the GS interior, which is not too bad, but the layout and the way it looks is just too boring compared to today's competitors, like:

the new E-Class which is literally a smaller S-Class interior.

Lexus needs to use some elements from the new LS and put them in the next generation GS interior. Right now, it is not competitive at all in its segment.

Also Lexus needs to tone down its styling as Mohammed Taha said. The base GS now looks to sporty to attract regular customers IMO. Sure, there are customers who want a sporty looking sedan, but that is what the F Sport package is for. The regular GS looks too aggressive. Especially compared to its competitors, which look so much more elegant and luxurious from the outside.

I doubt that Lexus is going to kill the ES, because it gets so many sales, even though it ruins the brands reputation in some ways. But Lexus cares more about its money, so they are more likely to kill the enthusiasts car rather than the money machine.

I hope that Lexus gives the GS one more chance, and if it is done properly, it will be successful.

Could not agree more with your comments the Lexus is good but not good enough the Merc luxury just shines through in this comparative photo. Your comment about the Sales is also probably correct but it is a pity that Lexus or should i say Toyota do not put their heart and soul into this brand and take some pain if need be. The ES simply does not fit the range anymore and the pricing just causes more confusion. Whatever happened to the Pursuit of Perfection? Need to make some hard decisions here almost get the impression that Lexus has become a bit of problem for Toyota and therefore they get looked after once Toyota models are in place showing a lack of independence - typical latest example is the launch of the Toyota H-CR and only later will Lexus launch the UX. A pity i believe Lexus has created a good name for itself and now Toyota need to nail it properly regardless of the cost.

 

[Gecko]

ES is killing all TMC .
It's killing Avalon , Camry , Crown , Mark , GS & IS sales

You raise a good point. If the 7th gen Camry is about to dynamically be the best and most advanced Camry ever, and then an Avalon will surely follow, and the GS occupies the mid-range of the Lexus lineup, deleting the ES is the most logical move.

I know that ES and Avalon are often cross shopped... more cost conscious buyers go with the Avalon, those looking for the premium sales/service experience often go with the ES.

Lexus should be pushing GS 300 (2.0T) at that level - not a FWD clone of Camry and Avalon.

All of this is so frustrating to me.

 

[Gecko]

Remember that when it debuted in 2012, the 4GS interior blew everyone else out of the water. It was one of the first in the segment to go to the leather stitched dash, the huge multi-media screen, several wood choices, new red leather, flaxen leather, etc.

The new E Class is, well... new. Mercedes had to look at what Lexus did with the GS and come up with something better, so it should be better.

I have no doubt that if the GS should live for a fifth generation, it would be just as beautiful, if not moreso.

 

[maiaramdan]

The strange thing and what makes me mad that Akio himself year and couple months ago at NAIAS in the LC unveiling said that the LC is the start to make a European like brand recognition
And he said that Lexus brand will be more for sport that practicality which will be for Toyota

Someone please tell him that the European have no bloated FWD midsize wannabe sedan, and also that the FWD will never be sporty, and that the ES twins aka Camry and Avalon are much more stylish and sporty, and that ES step brothers GS, IS, Mark & Crown are much more well building , sporty and upscale

So it will be wrong for the brand recognition he wanted and for all ES's brothers

 

[PeterF]

excellent point. Boy! the interior of the new E class is very attractive, reminds me of aspects of the new LS interior design as well.

 

[Carmaker1]

Everybody we have an update on this topic and it's not directly for me, but someone else that has garnered info on this matter. I do not know how I missed this myself. Until now, I had no semblance of a GS development code. It seems "300B", would be the code. Question is, what is really in the cards at this moment? (Thank you Euro1990!)

 

[Izzam@RegencyAuto]

http://jalopnik.com/the-lexus-gs-might-soon-be-dead-but-will-anyone-miss-it-1793369904

 

[Carmaker1]

This reminds of what I talked about in another thread regarding Infiniti. The Infiniti Q45 flagship that launched the brand, had troubles from the beginning due to poor marketing during 1989 intro. Even though they corrected this new ads showing the car in 1990, before 1991 model year began that fall, Lexus already had a lead on them.

Not only did the LS400 launch 2 months before the Infiniti, it also was marketed accurately before the Infiniti's marketing team undid their mistake, many months later during 1990. The lacklustre follow-up in 1996, didn't help improve its image, it having a sales increase.

The momentum was just not there, that even when they poured a fortune into the 3rd generation 2002 model in the midst of near bankruptcy (Ghosn didn't touch it), it sold like crap, got discontinued and put on hiatus in 2006, because they deemed it that the 5-Series competitor in the V8-powered M45 was going to butt heads with the Q45 flagship. Sounds like 5LS and current GS on the inverse, where Lexus poured a fortune into the L10 GS between 2007 and 2014, only for things to start going south in 2015-16 upon mid-cycle.

Apparently at Nissan, uncommitted development continued on a Q45 successor with a chosen design that leaned between '09 Essence Concept and GT-R, only to be scrapped in 2009 due to the global cash. Their attempt to try and make the current generation M/Q70 fill both slots of midsize and flagship has fallen flat on the their faces. The planned redesigned they had in 2018, has been pushed back to 2020. Another refresh will debut instead, for a car that began production in 2009 and that of the QX80 (also pushed back).

This story above, reminds me somewhat of the GS in some ways and the fact they kept the LS for 11 years, now being possibly guilty of pondering the cancellation of another proper luxury product. I don't them introducing a uni-body crossover on GA-L soon, so what nonsensical idea would it make to only have the RX and ES cover everything below the LS? Those are not proper full-on upper-middle class luxury vehicles, so I hope what I just discovered is what will come to fruition.

To my chagrin, I think that Toyota has not been true to a top-down approach with design and had intended to introduce a revolutionary design on the 5GS, instead of being content with styling efforts for the LC and LS. That kind of pressure can affect the creative process during development, in not wanting to deviate too much with such products in the new flagships, yet move things forward enough. Akio Toyoda in 2009 didn't respond well to the chosen design for the L10 GS and reportedly wanted to postpone development, but instead forced revisions to his taste.

Unlike Mercedes-Benz, Toyota has always taken a perspective of "saving the best for last" in regards to design hierarchy. A Lexus director commented in 2004, upon freshly freezing the design for the XF40/4LS due for the '07 model year, that they didn't mind letting l-finesse "trickle-up" to the "next LS".

L-finesse appeared on S190 GS and XE20 IS in 2005, before the LS in 2006. I have to wonder if the pressure of devising a newer design language has occurred with this programme. I might be wrong and they have wised up, in letting design hierarchy flow down for LC and LS for once.

 

[meth.ix]

The ES is a downright embarrassment for the company. If Akio really cares about his enthusiasts and the brands sporty image as he said he does, he will axe the ES, not GS.

Also, ES F Sport makes no sense, FWD quiet family car doesn't go with the sporty vibes of F Sport

 

[mikeavelli]

With the LS growing to LWB only it gives the GS a chance to grow and shine. Again, the GS worldwide never sold better. The ES won't sell in Europe. Obviously most people and most salespeople gravitate toward a cheaper, larger ES here.

Again, maybe then make the GS a 4 door coupe.

 

[James]

With the LS growing to LWB only it gives the GS a chance to grow and shine. Again, the GS worldwide never sold better. The ES won't sell in Europe. Obviously most people and most salespeople gravitate toward a cheaper, larger ES here.

Again, maybe then make the GS a 4 door coupe.

I agree with you Mikeavelli. If they want to make a change to the GS make it an A7 competitor and go that route. I still don't see how the GS is not needed in the lineup but the A7/S7/RS7 if very sporty and Lexus needs something like that especially if they are thinking of getting rid of the GS. It doesn't have to be called the GS even though they should keep the name but make it a four door coupe I mean why not? Well I guess we will know more soon...

 

[Alexander Li]

How disappointing. By the time I learn to drive GSes might not be around anymore. It's my personal favorite, but has by no question the best chassis in the segment (it'll take a while to explain). Trouble is, it can handle so much more power.

 

[Carmaker1]

Oh wow, I am really sorry everyone for pushing this rumour so much for the past few months. After having various conversations today regarding this all over and discovering some actual product planning info, the next GS is NOT being cancelled. It is coming! Some Lexus personnel have debunked this rumour, claiming that it is moving forward and to NOT expect the next GS nor the next ES this year, but 2018 and 2019. However, until we see actual prototypes of this car, trust everything with a grain of salt.

My advice to everyone, is too research the development codes I have provided for you, as that will lead to concrete info in some cases.

 

[mordecai]

Although ES is a sweetheart here in the US, I would love if the ES was dropped and the new ES plant was retooled to build the GS instead. One can dream, right?

 

[Lasse J. Nordvik]

Here's my suggestion: drop the GS,make the next IS a little bit larger and keep the CT but switch it to rwd. Not that I've got a clue on how to run a car manufacturer...

 

[mmcartalk]

Although ES is a sweetheart here in the US, I would love if the ES was dropped and the new ES plant was retooled to build the GS instead. One can dream, right?

Why would you want the ES plant converted to GS production if far fewer people actually buy or lease a GS? So the cars can sit on the lot, unsold? Where I live, BTW (NoVA/D.C. suburbs), the ES is an absolute magnet to senior citizens...they just love it.