Introducing the 2018 Lexus LS F SPORT

mikeavelli

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I'm curious if everyone hating on the TTV6 has any concept of torque versus horsepower in a 4,300 lb car the size of a city block?

Plain and simple: the 2UR-GSE would not have been the right engine for the LS. Screaming to 7,100 RPM redline for 389lb-ft of torque is out of place and character for a car like this, and it would have been dogged by both reviewers and prospective buyers.

If Lexus developed another, say, 4.0L V8 with a turbocharger, maybe I'd be on board with the V8 argument. With this V6, 443lb-ft produced much lower in the rev range is going to make the LS feel faster, smoother and more powerful than if it had the 2UR.

The V8 is the right engine for the LC 500 - a coupe with sporting intentions, where someone might want to wring it out to redline when they can. For a full size luxury car, you want torque down low... and that's something Lexus really hasn't had since the 3UZ-FE. I still believe that this V6 will be a great engine and perfect fit for the LS. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually ends up faster on the bottom end than the LC 500.

Not hating. I want a V-8 in the LS. Period. If I want a TT V-6 it will be a GT-R.... I totally get the new ttV-6 will be faster and more efficient than the old V-8. I want a faster and more efficient V-8. Lets be honest here, if the LS 400 debuted with a V-6 it would have flopped. Benz just debuted 3 new engines for the S-class. THREE.

(edit seems it gains two new engines, the latter 4.0 is tuned for 463hp then 603hp in the S63)


FYI, the new Lincoln Navigator 3.5 V-6 will make 450 peak hp....

I don't understand how Lexus who KNOWS BETTER THAN ANYONE how important a V-8 is to this class, abandons it until a potential F version.
 
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Benny1908

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Not hating. I want a V-8 in the LS. Period. If I want a TT V-6 it will be a GT-R.... I totally get the new ttV-6 will be faster and more efficient than the old V-8. I want a faster and more efficient V-8. Lets be honest here, if the LS 400 debuted with a V-6 it would have flopped. Benz just debuted 3 new engines for the S-class. THREE.


As far as i know the S450 W222 facelift will go to the US market with the updated version of the current V6 with 362bhp/367ps and essentially replaces the outgoing six-cylinder S550e plug-in-hybrid model (Only 166 S550e's were sold in 2017)
 

Ian Schmidt

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Not hating. I want a V-8 in the LS. Period.

My car guy side wants one too, but I think the status symbol aspect of the V8 is depreciating rapidly as YouTube fills with "Model S DESTROYS (Bugatti/AMG/M/Ferrari/Lambo/Porsche/Bentley)!" videos. And I finally even saw an i8 that wasn't part of a Vossen photo shoot the other day. That thing is *stunning* in person.
 

mikeavelli

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As far as i know the S450 W222 facelift will go to the US market with the updated version of the current V6 with 362bhp/367ps and essentially replaces the outgoing six-cylinder S550e plug-in-hybrid model (Only 166 S550e's were sold in 2017)
Yes, it gets an entry level V-6, a new 4.0 V-8 at around 460hp and a new V-8 for the S63!!!!

My car guy side wants one too, but I think the status symbol aspect of the V8 is depreciating rapidly as YouTube fills with "Model S DESTROYS (Bugatti/AMG/M/Ferrari/Lambo/Porsche/Bentley)!" videos. And I finally even saw an i8 that wasn't part of a Vossen photo shoot the other day. That thing is *stunning* in person.

I don't doubt that at all. I'm sure the V-6 is more than adequate and fine for many. It's not for me in the LS the more I think about it....but maybe after I drive it I change my mind
 

Benny1908

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Yes, it gets an entry level V-6, a new 4.0 V-8 at around 460hp and a new V-8 for the S63!!!!

The S560 and the S63 share the same engine, it was debuted in the AMG GT/GT S in 2015 now that's their only V8

It will be an interesting battle between the LS 500 and the S450/S560.
 

mikeavelli

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The S560 and the S63 share the same engine, it was debuted in the AMG GT/GT S in 2015 now that's their only V8

It will be an interesting battle between the LS 500 and the S450/S560.

I'm reading now, so the S-class gains the new 4.0 in base form (463hp) and then tunes the same engine for the S63 to make 603hp? Thats amazing. I know in the GT S it makes 510 or so. They added another 100hp nearly!
 

James

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I'm reading now, so the S-class gains the new 4.0 in base form (463hp) and then tunes the same engine for the S63 to make 603hp? Thats amazing. I know in the GT S it makes 510 or so. They added another 100hp nearly!
But in 5 years won't your s class break down where LS will go another 15 years!! Lol sorry had to say it. Benz's engines are quite incredible tho
 

Benny1908

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I'm reading now, so the S-class gains the new 4.0 in base form (463hp) and then tunes the same engine for the S63 to make 603hp? Thats amazing. I know in the GT S it makes 510 or so. They added another 100hp nearly!


Exactly. And the S63 have 664 lb-ft/900nm thats insane for a 4.0 V8, with 4matic and the new 9 speed gearbox that thing can really move lol We need that LS-F asap :D
 
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The message that I'm getting from the article is that you must get the handling package if you want real "sportiness".

According to what I see in the picture, those are Bridgestone Turanza tires, which are also used on the LC 500h but are aimed for touring manners.
 
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meth.ix

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I don't understand the difference adding two more cylinders makes other than sound, which shouldn’t matter in the large saloon class where quietness is what we want. I personally feel like it is just the owner’s ego that they need to know that they have 8+ cylinders pulling them around. To be fair, I haven’t ever driven both to feel or fully understand the difference between the two.
 

Ian Schmidt

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In practical terms, the TTV6 has significantly more torque and more power than any V8 LS made to date could ever dream of. It meets or exceeds the majority of the figures people were claiming to be necessary back before we knew anything about the car. I expect it to kick my butt when I drop the pedal hard while doing better than 14 MPG, and that's really all I'm asking for.
 

spwolf

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I bet many people will quickly want TTV6 in LC500 too. But lets wait until first drives come.
 

krew

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Not hating. I want a V-8 in the LS. Period.

I bet many people will quickly want TTV6 in LC500 too. But lets wait until first drives come.

You know what? I'm happy Lexus abandoned the V8 in the LS. I'm glad the brand has moved away from insisting all top-end models need a V8 engine even when the competition looks to be in a different class entirely. It shows me Lexus might finally be moving forward technically, that there's more to the brand than design.

Also, dead honest -- I prefer turbos to NA engines. I love torque.
 

CIF

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You know what? I'm happy Lexus abandoned the V8 in the LS. I'm glad the brand has moved away from insisting all top-end models need a V8 engine even when the competition looks to be in a different class entirely. It shows me Lexus might finally be moving forward technically, that there's more to the brand than design.

Also, dead honest -- I prefer turbos to NA engines. I love torque.

I would only support the move away from the V8 if Lexus proves with its new TT V6 that in the real world, it is superior to previous V8 engines under the Lexus brand. However that still leaves an elephant in the room. Even if Lexus proves this, and the new TT V6 turns out to be an excellent engine, that alone is not reason enough to move away from V8s. As you implied, in terms of power and torque at least, the competition is in a different class entirely. I know Lexus doesn't compete apples-to-apples with the competition, but Lexus cannot afford to be left too far behind.

So aside from the TT V6, to compete with the competition, Lexus needs something more powerful, like a TT V8. This engine is rumored to appear in future F models. However it would be somewhat disappointing if the TT V8 ends up available *only* in F models.

Luxury is all about choice, options, opulence, excess, and wants and desires. Luxury is not defined by needs or practicality. When Lexus years ago gave the official explanation of the GS losing the V8, they said not enough consumers were buying the V8 variant. That was not the full story, because for years prior Lexus was making it harder and harder to actually *buy* a V8 GS. In any case, that move, that decision was very practical. In my mind, too practical for a luxury brand. That's a move that would make more sense for a mass market brand like Toyota. The job of the Lexus brand is not high volumes or sales at all costs.

What's really disappointing is that in some select markets, you can get a supercharged LX. Also superchargers are/were available in the US and Canada for the 5.7L V8, as well as the 3.5L V6 as official factory add-ons. I heard these products have been discontinued, but I'm not 100% sure. The disappointing part is no consistency on the part of Lexus in terms of world markets. If Lexus is truly a "world brand", then the supercharged LX should have been offered in North America and other markets as well, not just some select markets somewhere in the Middle East and Europe.

Getting back on topic, I agree partially with you. I love torque as well. However I love on demand torque the most. That means torque with a very quick and linear throttle response and little to no lag. I've been in a variety of turbo cars over the years, new and older, and one constant that has remained a dealbreaker has always been lag. Once a turbo engine reaches full spool, then yes the torque is nice. However personally I have never gotten used to the lag during the initial time it takes to spool up. Even the most advanced modern turbo vehicles today that I have been in still have some lag. Opinions may differ. The only types of gasoline powertrains so far that offer nice torque on demand are large displacement, large cylinder engines like V8s and bigger that are done right, and large displacement supercharged engines.

Now I also really like a deep, strong engine note. Not raspy or too throaty, but a strong, natural note that's not fake. Turbo engines don't have such engine notes. I personally dislike hisses and whoosing sounds of turbo engines. I personally prefer the engine note of supercharged engines.

So the big question for the new Lexus TT V6, aside from real world performance, will be what kind of engine note does it have?

Ideally I would love to see such an offering from Lexus for their midrange and up car models and crossovers:

New V6
TT V6
New large V8
TT V8

Also for the Lexus body-on-frame SUVs:

Brand new large V8

We probably won't get that in reality, but we'll see.
 

mikeavelli

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You know what? I'm happy Lexus abandoned the V8 in the LS. I'm glad the brand has moved away from insisting all top-end models need a V8 engine even when the competition looks to be in a different class entirely. It shows me Lexus might finally be moving forward technically, that there's more to the brand than design.

Also, dead honest -- I prefer turbos to NA engines. I love torque.

We should have fought in Ibiza over this :D

Honestly someone made a good point, the V-6tt is much better in performance than the V-8. But somethings you just want.... I hope the V-8 option comes fast...

Until then the hybrid has my heart.