All about the Fourth Generation Prius

[Ian Schmidt]

I don't think it's ugly so much as overly aggressive for what it is. You don't need Lexus F-Sport styling cues on a Prius, unless they make a hot hatch version.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

I don't think it's ugly so much as overly aggressive for what it is. You don't need Lexus F-Sport styling cues on a Prius, unless they make a hot hatch version.

Maybe they do need some of that Lexus styling...because the sales say otherwise (cough Pontiac Aztek).

^ Good article, not just blaming gas prices as usual for sharp decline in sales.

This would be the first time that its styling is called out for being ugly. Past Priuses were nothing to look at, but many buyers still prefer a more conventional look. The newer Volt and upcoming Hyundai Ioniq could look to do damage.

Prius Prime looks great, IMO. Standard car is terrible looking. Ugliest Prius ever.

The Prime is less ugly and more tolerable, and more in line with the buyer base. They need to give the same styling to the regular Prius stat. I was at the local Big T dealer, and they still had too many 2016 Prius in stock.

 

[mikeavelli]

I said it from the start this is one ghastly looking vehicle. The last Prius dare I say it, was handsome especially in IV trim with the 17" wheels.

Do you know one major reason the Tesla Model S sells? Its pretty damn good looking (I prefer pre-grill look).

Not every alternative hybrid/electric buyer wants to drive something weird.

 

[mmcartalk]

Prius Prime looks great, IMO. Standard car is terrible looking. Ugliest Prius ever.

Yeah, the looks aren't a silk purse in my book, either. But the Japanese home-market seems to like it, where sales are up.

 

[isanatori]

I dare to say that 4gen Prius might be one of the most beautiful Toyota ever. It looks very Japanese and at least a decay ahead of its time. The Prime looks Americanized and somehow an afterthought, which I don't like it at all.
If someone wants a BORING, down to earth European flair design with clean lines etc, there is a CT200h to look for. Many people might not like regular gen4, but I am very happy Toyota having the guts to reveal their Japanese identity in their iconic vehicle.

I think its design contemplates its fun drive character too. For those who like to drift on track or non-public roads, a magazine tested it long time ago and it looked hachiroku fun wearing slick tires on rear wheels. If you think I am crazy, seek after 4:30.

 

[Grendel]

I feel the front of the new Prius looks too strange. The back is cool. What I really not like is "the toilet inside"!!
The first time I looked at it I got chocked when I saw the white "tray" between the front seats! My first thought was to compare this to the toilets we meet in Spain when we are on holidays. Then this construction have been "the toilet inside". Ok, it is positive that this "thing" has the possibility to give wireless charging of your mobile phone; "You just put the phone in the toilet, and you can pick it up fully charged". I will not try that...

 

[Tragic Bronson]

I dare to say that 4gen Prius might be one of the most beautiful Toyota ever. It looks very Japanese and at least a decay ahead of its time. The Prime looks Americanized and somehow an afterthought, which I don't like it at all.
If someone wants a BORING, down to earth European flair design with clean lines etc, there is a CT200h to look for. Many people might not like regular gen4, but I am very happy Toyota having the guts to reveal their Japanese identity in their iconic vehicle.

I think its design contemplates its fun drive character too. For those who like to drift on track or non-public roads, a magazine tested it long time ago and it looked hachiroku fun wearing slick tires on rear wheels. If you think I am crazy, seek after 4:30.

Beautiful ever? That's sacrilegious to say when the 2000GT was in existence.

Yes, everyone has their own taste, BUT if buyers here don't like the styling, you can't force it on them. Japanese taste are vastly different from Americans. If your buying demographic doesn't like what you offer, it won't matter how 'beautiful' you think it is. I'm sure Toyota is more than willing to conform. If they didn't, they wouldn't have factories here and sell vehicles like their trucks and SUVs, and even the Lexus brand, which the US market was the reason why it exists.

 

[isanatori]

Beautiful ever? That's sacrilegious to say when the 2000GT was in existence.

I was grown up reading/watching manga/anime such as Gundam, Doraemon, Pikachu, Naruto, Sailor Moon, Final Fantasy and many other stuff like that. I adore Hayao Miyazaki works and I am a die-hard fan of shingeki no kyojin. I love Japanese culture which is considered cult for overseas tastes and the regular new Prius design fits perfectly in that concept (totemo kawaii desu yo). Toyota/Lexus are very lucky companies, because as Japanese, can go to next level of design just by using their own home culture themes, which are probably the greatest treasure on Earth. There are unprecedented themes and resources to take design to next level. I understand that such concept does not fit to the western concept and even western multicultural societies are not really multicultural, but...

BUT if buyers here don't like the styling, you can't force it on them. Japanese taste are vastly different from Americans. If your buying demographic doesn't like what you offer, it won't matter how 'beautiful' you think it is. I'm sure Toyota is more than willing to conform. If they didn't, they wouldn't have factories here and sell vehicles like their trucks and SUVs, and even the Lexus brand, which the US market was the reason why it exists.

... US and Europe are not the centre of the world, especially when it comes to global market products such as Prius. Just because Americans buy only SUVs, it does not mean that all Toyotas/Lexii should be SUVs. Toyota also builds other cars that nobody buys such as GT86, but that particular car is a part of Toyota's history too. It is the reincarnation of the legendary, underpowered, naturally aspirated, affordable, great handling, utterly responsive, hachiroku Corolla. We have to understand that what differentiate us from competitors, it is a statement. It is the story about who we are, our mindset, where we come from and our expectations and dreams we have, when we gaze at the future. Prius belongs to this branch. Many people don't like it. To repeat my view, for such people there are still propositions such as CT200h, or other American made cars.

By the way, Lexus made a statement at the unveiling of the UX250h concept Paris Show. Their future design language won't appeal to all tastes, whatever this means.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

Read the article again, I think you're missing the point.

 

[isanatori]

Read the article again, I think you're missing the point.

I apologize for misunderstanding you. My previous reply might was a rambling one and perhaps a deviation from your point of view.
At first, I was trying to explain how there might be people such as myself, that think of a Prius, as a more desirable car than 2000GT.
Then, I was trying to signify that Prius have always been a "strange" to western taste proposition from all aspects. Nothing is wrong, if people in US or anywhere in the world don't like it. Even if its not a spring pouring out piles of money, it still makes a business case and belongs to a special category of models that Toyota affords to maintain as trademarks.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

I apologize for misunderstanding you. My previous reply might was a rambling one and perhaps a deviation from your point of view.
At first, I was trying to explain how there might be people such as myself, that think of a Prius, as a more desirable car than 2000GT.
Then, I was trying to signify that Prius have always been a "strange" to western taste proposition from all aspects. Nothing is wrong, if people in US or anywhere in the world don't like it. Even if its not a spring pouring out piles of money, it still makes a business case and belongs to a special category of models that Toyota affords to maintain as trademarks.

If you haven't read this, it is kind of hilarious, and explains the phenomenon that the Prius became here in 'Murica, when movie stars were buying them to appear "green" and what not. Now that we have Tesla, I think the market has changed.

https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/02/07/60-toyota-prius/

 

[isanatori]

If you haven't read this, it is kind of hilarious, and explains the phenomenon that the Prius became here in 'Murica, when movie stars were buying them to appear "green" and what not. Now that we have Tesla, I think the market has changed.

https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/02/07/60-toyota-prius/

I have read the article, but I don't understand, what makes you believe that prius owes its success due to American glamour factor? I took a look at the hybrid's global sales chart...
http://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/detail/12077091
... and my impression is that, success of Prius (and hybrids generally) is irrelevant to what you perceived by reading the article you provided above. What I see in the sales chart is on average a very slow sales increase year after year. I don't see any splashing, exploding sale NA charts.
Some milestones.
Y2000 NA 8x greater acceptance than EU.
Y2004 NA 7x greater acceptance than EU.
Y2009 NA 4x greater acceptance than EU.

Instead, the sales chart in terms of market share reveals a very low acceptance of hybrids generally in overseas markets (from a Japanese point of view). Still this is exactly what makes Toyota the best company in the world (for me) and I am really proud and happy about that. Toyota is not a shooting star, rather it s a company that builds its success by taking small and thoughtful steps. The success of Prius and other hybrids is that Toyota made hybrids a very successful business case, despite the hostile environment. In Europe Toyota hybrid car cost is already on parity with equivalent diesel car cost.

Toyota's challenge in US is that government promotes EV's with high incentives. It is the same challenge Toyota had in United States of Germany (masqueraded as European Union) with "clean" diesel car incentives.
If US buyers are cross-shopping prius with EV cars remains to be seen in sales results. I just don't think global sales decreasing from stagnant 1.2M (since 2012) in the future. Such challenges might compromise hybrid sales growth rate, but don't take my word for granted, because I don't really know.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

I have read the article, but I don't understand, what makes you believe that prius owes its success due to American glamour factor? I took a look at the hybrid's global sales chart...
http://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/detail/12077091
... and my impression is that, success of Prius (and hybrids generally) is irrelevant to what you perceived by reading the article you provided above. What I see in the sales chart is on average a very slow sales increase year after year. I don't see any splashing, exploding sale NA charts.
Some milestones.
Y2000 NA 8x greater acceptance than EU.
Y2004 NA 7x greater acceptance than EU.
Y2009 NA 4x greater acceptance than EU.

Instead, the sales chart in terms of market share reveals a very low acceptance of hybrids generally in overseas markets (from a Japanese point of view). Still this is exactly what makes Toyota the best company in the world (for me) and I am really proud and happy about that. Toyota is not a shooting star, rather it s a company that builds its success by taking small and thoughtful steps. The success of Prius and other hybrids is that Toyota made hybrids a very successful business case, despite the hostile environment. In Europe Toyota hybrid car cost is already on parity with equivalent diesel car cost.

Toyota's challenge in US is that government promotes EV's with high incentives. It is the same challenge Toyota had in United States of Germany (masqueraded as European Union) with "clean" diesel car incentives.
If US buyers are cross-shopping prius with EV cars remains to be seen in sales results. I just don't think global sales decreasing from stagnant 1.2M (since 2012) in the future. Such challenges might compromise hybrid sales growth rate, but don't take my word for granted, because I don't really know.

The Gen 2 Prius was what put everything on the map. It was a lot of things. If you don't understand it, then I would do your homework and go research it. It was a phenomenon. If a bunch of celebrities didn't buy them, maybe the world would be a different place than it was a decade ago. I understand if you don't live in the US, you don't seem to understand the cultural impact of the Prius.

Prius were selling at sticker price or more because folks here in California wanted the elusive carpool stickers, because it was to look or feel "green". Because you don't reside here, you may not see the other side of the equation that we've seen about the Prius, both good and bad. Bad I mean smug owners and getting hate from coal rolling diesel truck owners, to those owners who desecrate their Prius with political (majority left-leaning) stickers on their bumpers and what not.

 

[mmcartalk]

The Gen 2 Prius was what put everything on the map. It was a lot of things. If you don't understand it, then I would do your homework and go research it. It was a phenomenon.

I agree the 2Gen was the one that really defined this car. I reviewed both the 2Gen and 3Gen Priuses (haven't seen the 4Gen close-up yet), and, although the 3Gen became more efficient, with better MPG and handling, it seemed to suffer a significant loss of solidity in its sheet metal and hardware (from weight and cost-cutting). Compared to the 2Gen, IMO at least, the 3Gen had a Cracker-Jack feel to it.

 

[isanatori]

Tragic Bronson

The emotional effect of the introduction of the 2nd gen prius in NA and the frenzy it caused, added emotional "green" value to the company profile worldwide. But prius was not designed as an advertising project, despite the fact that western minded Toyota subsidiaries perceived it this way I suppose. Prius purpose was to bring HSD to mass production and prepare the road for Mirai introduction.

 

[isanatori]

I agree the 2Gen was the one that really defined this car. I reviewed both the 2Gen and 3Gen Priuses (haven't seen the 4Gen close-up yet), and, although the 3Gen became more efficient, with better MPG and handling, it seemed to suffer a significant loss of solidity in its sheet metal and hardware (from weight and cost-cutting). Compared to the 2Gen, IMO at least, the 3Gen had a Cracker-Jack feel to it.

I don't understand how 2nd gen had greater solidity than 3rd gen. I can remember 3rd gen gained significant powertrain technology. Bigger displacement engine with belt less design! Also, gear driven e-CVT, exhaust gas recirculation system (EGR). In terms of tech gear, every new gen is significant better than the one it replaces and you get more car. 4gen is on a completely different level, because it is the first prius that does not rely on its green factor to justify its existence.

 

[mmcartalk]

I don't understand how 2nd gen had greater solidity than 3rd gen.

The doors felt more solid, and shut with a more substantial thunk....ditto for the hood and hatch-lid. The sheet metal seemed more resistant to buckling and denting on the 2Gen if you tried to push it with your hands or fingers. Interior hardware and trim seemed to have a more substantial feel in one's hands or fingers. And, on the 3Gen model, the pull-shade for the cargo-cover was so thin that it felt almost like you were tugging on a piece of paper.

I'll grant you, though that the 3Gen powertrain was more efficient, as proved by the significant increase in EPA mileage figures.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

The emotional effect of the introduction of the 2nd gen prius in NA and the frenzy it caused, added emotional "green" value to the company profile worldwide. But prius was not designed as an advertising project, despite the fact that western minded Toyota subsidiaries perceived it this way I suppose. Prius purpose was to bring HSD to mass production and prepare the road for Mirai introduction.

No car is designed to be an advertising project. But it is up to the marketplace/audience to accept or not, which obviously is beyond the control of the manufacturer. The Prius did everything you said, as it became an icon for many other things too other than being synonymous with "hybrid", wanted or not.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

http://www.autonews.com/article/201.../toyota-positions-prius-prime-as-a-value-play

Toyota positions Prius Prime as a value play

OJAI, Calif. -- To fully understand the selling points of the new Prius Prime plug-in hybrid, pull out a calculator.

With just 25 miles of electric-only range, the newest member of the Prius family isn't going to let you play EV enthusiast for very long. Its closest competitor on the market today, the Chevrolet Volt, has enough range to let your imagination run more than twice as far, 53 clicks on the odometer.

But otherwise, the math is kind to the weirdly styled Prius.

Even in base trim, the Prime comes with heated seats, a safety suite and a bevy of gauges to monitor all the goings-on in the drivetrain. Drive modes include a combination of eco, normal, sport and electric-only, hybrid-only or automatic switching between the two.

Its base sticker price, with shipping, is $27,965. And it's eligible for a federal tax credit of up to $4,500. That's a lot of car and a lot of technology for the mid-$23,000s.

A $1,700 trim upgrade adds an 11.6-inch tablet-style screen on the center stack and apps to set charging times for the best electricity rates.

The base Volt, which is quicker but less efficient, stickers at $34,095 with shipping. It's eligible for a federal tax break of $7,500, since it has a larger battery.

Both cars may be eligible for additional tax breaks in the few states that offer them.

Run the numbers and what the Prime has going for it is value. Toyota says that's an asset that could help attract buyers who are still unsure about the payoffs of electrification.

The Prime is basically for buyers who want to dip their toes into the electric-car market but don't want to take any chances with range anxiety or pay a premium they may not be able to recover in fuel savings. For short trips, the peppy electric powertrain will let them experience the future of automobiles on a tried-and-true hybrid platform.

And since the conventional Prius hybrid is no longer eligible for federal tax credits, the base Prius Prime actually comes in priced below the base Prius, assuming the buyer qualifies for the full $4,500 tax credit.

The Prime, which was redesigned for 2017 on Toyota's new global platform, is also a much better car than the first-generation plug-in Prius, which sold poorly.

The new platform has an independent double-wishbone rear suspension, a lower center of gravity, improved ride and some mildly sporty intentions. Also new is the Prime's ability to engage two electric motors rather than one to improve performance. The battery size has doubled for greater range.

"Despite more than doubling the electric range, increasing all the standard equipment and making it better looking and more fun to drive, we're going to be lowering the starting price by $3,000 over its predecessor," said Doug Coleman, Toyota's national marketing manager for advanced-technology vehicles.

Such aggressive pricing reflects market realities for hybrids in an era of cheap gasoline. But Coleman says Toyota thinks the plug-in market is poised to grow in the medium term.

Toyota says half of Americans can do their round-trip commute using the car's electric-only power. That jumps to 80 percent if they have charging station at work.

With the redesigned model, Toyota tried hard to make sure that the Prime's gasoline motor wouldn't kick in prematurely during electric-driving mode, unlike its predecessor, which spoiled the fantasy of whirring around in a budget Tesla. With enough battery juice, the Prime can go up to 84 mph as an electric car.

"We listened to our customers, and they wanted to be able to have that EV-mode experience at highway speeds, whether they're using the A/C or the heater," said Chad Moore, product training expert at Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. "They really wanted to maintain that all-electric EV mode."

Even if the feeling lasts just 25 miles.

Not only is the Prime less hideous, for most buyers it would be even cheaper to buy than the regular Prius.

 

[mmcartalk]

I have yet to see a new one. How about you all?

They are sprouting here in the D.C. area, despite relatively cheap gas. But, then, everything sells here....this is arguably the second largest new car market in the country.