7th Generation (2019+) Lexus ES (250, 260, 300h, 350) Megathread

[CIF]

I know this isn't adding much, but I would just like to say I never believed the GS was going to get totally cancelled. The many heated discussions over the GS being cancelled that have happened here (which has never been confirmed at all) remind me of the rumor that appeared during 4GS development that many people believed (and some still do). The famous rumor years ago that during 4GS development, Akio Toyoda wanted to cancel the GS completely. This was never fully substantiated, and even Akio Toyoda himself in an obscure interview confirmed it was never his intention. He only implied to the development team of the 4GS he considered cancelling it because initial 4GS efforts left him disappointed. That implication lit a symbolic fire under the development team, and the result was the 4GS that we actually got to market, with its class-leading chassis and excellent interior.

Throughout Toyota Motor Company's history, cancelling a model line completely has always been extremely rare. Let's look on the Lexus side. The SC was never completely cancelled. It reappeared as the 2nd gen SC, and more recently it has "reappeared" in a reimagined way as the LC. Let's be honest, the LC is the spiritual successor to the SC. The CT was never truly cancelled, as it lives on in other overseas markets. The HS is the only model that one can argue was truly cancelled. Yet on the other hand, it is also arguable that the CT is extremely similar to the HS, and that the HS possibly lives on through the CT.

This new ES is great as an ES. Love the rear seat details, the wood and leather steering wheel, and the different color options. Also did anyone else catch the Shimamoku and bamboo wood available as options? Love that some LS options have now appeared on the ES. The F-Sport interior in all black looks really bland, I agree. Also really like the exterior. I eagerly await further details in a full press release. Not surprised no new V6, looks like the TNGA workhorse V6 engine isn't ready yet. It will debut somewhere soon enough, just not now. Likely on a mid-cycle refresh, or simply some new generation. I don't get some of the criticism of the details of the car. If you're expecting an LS for ES money, that's absolutely impossible. If you expect an LS, well that already exists. For ES money though, this new ES is really excellent.

As for the GS, what will I think will happen personally with the 5GS? I think it will go on hiatus, and then reappear as a further upmarket '4-door coupe' type sedan. I think it's likely the GS will lose its traditional shape. The 3GS hinted at a '4-door coupe' look, but that model was too small, impractical, and the styling didn't fully work. If they grow the GS from 4GS size, they can make a very elegant, very unique high-end midsize prestige sedan.

 

[Levi]

I think in GS context 'cancel' meant no imminent direct replacement, no prototype spyshots. If Lexus wants to remain what it is, no one on here doubts the possibility of it returning, like the LC, but just not today, unless Lexus pulls out Acura and Infiniti strategy, which would be dumb.

 

[spwolf]

With all that been said, I think currently Toyota has a better Idea of what they are aiming for in their Line up. The new corolla and Rav 4 is a testament to this.
As for Lexus IMO everything released this Year is just a placeholder. Lets put something new out there for now to keep the cash flowing in while figure out all this mess. Lets start from the RXL (why not wait for the RX redesign to build a proper RXL from scratch?) LX 2 row (Lets make more money flow in. GX owner can upgrade also) LS (even though it's new we can all agree there is something incomplete about it. Be it legroom, car play, engine name it. I still feel like there is a V8 somewhere for the LS and I hope is not just for an LSF). I actually like the new ES for what it is and not as GS replacement.

So IMO 2020 is the year to be on the lookout for when talking about significant expectation from Lexus (Tokyo 2020)

There is no place holders, this is what we get.

I am not sure what exactly do you expect in 2020 Tokyo - 2.5 years from now? LS and LC will still be the same, just with Car Play... Maybe IS?

 

[Levi]

There is no place holders, this is what we get.

I am not sure what exactly do you expect in 2020 Tokyo - 2.5 years from now? LS and LC will still be the same, just with Car Play... Maybe IS?

No LF-1 before 2020?

 

[spwolf]

No LF-1 before 2020?

Sure, and RX, NX, CT? All of that before Tokyo 2020, so not sure what's left for after that.

 

[Levi]

I am giving credit to @franklexus, @t ClubLexus for posting this comparison:

LS

ES

 

[krew]

Lexus ES F SPORT Aimed at Younger Audience

Driving down the average age.

View the original article post

 

[bogglo]

No LF-1 before 2020?

Don't under estimate Lexus. Like I said it's my opinion. The 3GS upgrade to 3.5 engine between 2006 and 2007 that was even without a refresh or redesign also 2007 and 2008 430 to 460 change, the GX 2 row is another hint of how unpredictable they can be. The LS debuted with a TTV6 that most of us wasn't expecting especially after the LC lunch with V8. The most painful part of been a Lexus/Toyota enthusiast is they really don't let us know what is in works until maybe it's 90% done so all we can do is speculate or go with the rumors.

 

[emptystreets130]

“In other brands you have to go to a higher price point to get that much room,” Ericksen says, pointing out the ES now offers more legroom than the larger LS sedan. “We have every indication we are going to continue to have a great conquest vehicle on our hands.”

This is coming from the recent article, Lexus ES F Sport Aimed at Younger Audience. Why are they advertising this? Do they really want to consumers to steer away from the LS? I don't know about the rest of you but Lexus marketing is taking a turn for the worse. If I was an LS owner, I don't want to see that my flagship vehicle has less rear leg room than the entry level luxury car that cost about 20-30k less. The ES has grown every generation and it's pretty damn scary. It doesn't feel like a midsize car.

Also, me being in the younger audience crowd that they are targeting to, I don't consider the ES F Sport on my list of vehicles to look at. It'll probably be the last vehicle I look at. I rather look at the new Corolla Hatchback over the ES. Nothing about the new ES is inspiring. I look at the rear quarter view and I see a lot of Camry influence. I see the front end; a lot of LS influence. I see the interior, a mix bag of previous generation RX mashed up with the LS interior. The rear end looks like the Sonata. I want something unique, which is why I have an IS F Sport.

I'm sorry Lexus but what's your target audience for the ES F-Sport. Mid-40s?

 

[spwolf]

This is coming from the recent article, Lexus ES F Sport Aimed at Younger Audience. Why are they advertising this? Do they really want to consumers to steer away from the LS? I don't know about the rest of you but Lexus marketing is taking a turn for the worse. If I was an LS owner, I don't want to see that my flagship vehicle has less rear leg room than the entry level luxury car that cost about 20-30k less. The ES has grown every generation and it's pretty damn scary. It doesn't feel like a midsize car.

Also, me being in the younger audience crowd that they are targeting to, I don't consider the ES F Sport on my list of vehicles to look at. It'll probably be the last vehicle I look at. I rather look at the new Corolla Hatchback over the ES. Nothing about the new ES is inspiring. I look at the rear quarter view and I see a lot of Camry influence. I see the front end; a lot of LS influence. I see the interior, a mix bag of previous generation RX mashed up with the LS interior. The rear end looks like the Sonata. I want something unique, which is why I have an IS F Sport.

I'm sorry Lexus but what's your target audience for the ES F-Sport. Mid-40s?

So if you think ES is uninspiring vehicle, why do you think it competes with LS then at all? It does not.
Reasons that make LS cool are not there in ES.

For people buying cars per yard, ES is great value.

As to the F-Sport, It is certainly targeted to less than 67 crowd, but not much less... ES is by far the most conservative Lexus, and this is on purpose.
Then they can go crazy with cars like UX.

 

[emptystreets130]

So if you think ES is uninspiring vehicle, why do you think it competes with LS then at all? It does not.
Reasons that make LS cool are not there in ES.

For people buying cars per yard, ES is great value.

As to the F-Sport, It is certainly targeted to less than 67 crowd, but not much less... ES is by far the most conservative Lexus, and this is on purpose.
Then they can go crazy with cars like UX.

I'm not saying it competes with the LS. I'm saying why get the LS if the ES will be bigger than the LS, and cheaper than the LS, with roughly the same power as the LS500h. Reading through the clublexus forums, not a lot of LS owners are happy with the ES.

If they want to buy a car per yard, the Avalon is a better value.

 

[spwolf]

I'm not saying it competes with the LS. I'm saying why get the LS if the ES will be bigger than the LS, and cheaper than the LS, with roughly the same power as the LS500h. Reading through the clublexus forums, not a lot of LS owners are happy with the ES.

If they want to buy a car per yard, the Avalon is a better value.

if you read CL, then you know nobody there likes LS at all, and nobody is going to buy one... it is shifting demographics, they moved LS to be aspirational vehicle while ES is large affordable luxury sedan.

Just few posts above you have example while LS has less rear legroom, it is not a vehicle done by the numbers, unlike ES and RX for instance.

ES has roughly the power of S450 and similar 7 series and A8 too. So I guess it is same argument?
It is also more powerful than base engined 5/A6/E class that cost $10k more.

So by those arguments, there is no reason for S, 7, A8, etc to exist either.

 

[Madi]

I'm not saying it competes with the LS. I'm saying why get the LS if the ES will be bigger than the LS, and cheaper than the LS, with roughly the same power as the LS500h. Reading through the clublexus forums, not a lot of LS owners are happy with the ES.

If they want to buy a car per yard, the Avalon is a better value.

Having bigger leg room doesn't mean it's bigger than the LS, the LS's rear seats still by far more comfortable and nicer place to be in - the shoulders area in the LS is certainly bigger-

For the power, the LS500h is by far more powerful than ES300h, the materials inside the LS are coming truly from different world, so far from what you will get with the ES

There is no comparison at all, the leg room isn't everything.

 

[ssun30]

I'm sorry Lexus but what's your target audience for the ES F-Sport. Mid-40s?

Yes. Younger is relative to current ES owners.

The 20-30 crowd will get the IS/UX/NX instead.

 

[mikeavelli]

Guys, I don't know how to say this but the ES vs LS talk is just not reality. No one that buys a LS seriously considers a ES it could have 50 more inches of leg room. People that want a LS want a LS or S class etc. If Legroom mattered that much they would buy a Avalon and save 60 grand.

I am not talking about the .000001% person who does. The price points and cars are completely different and it won't matter what the ES offers it won't hurt the LS.

 

[ssun30]

Guys, I don't know how to say this but the ES vs LS talk is just not reality. No one that buys a LS seriously considers a ES it could have 50 more inches of leg room. People that want a LS want a LS or S class etc. If Legroom mattered that much they would buy a Avalon and save 60 grand.

I am not talking about the .000001% person who does. The price points and cars are completely different and it won't matter what the ES offers it won't hurt the LS.

I don't understand how a technical question evolved into a ES vs LS nonsense. They are clearly not comparable cars. I was only asking how the ES has more legroom.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Was chatting about various models with my salesman this morning while my LS500 was detailed for delivery and he said that Lexus has promised dealers an AWD version of the 7ES, but they don't have a firm date yet other than "not this year".

 

[krew]

I don't understand how a technical question evolved into a ES vs LS nonsense. They are clearly not comparable cars. I was only asking how the ES has more legroom.

This is not in response to your tech question, but @emptystreets130 's post:

This is coming from the recent article, Lexus ES F Sport Aimed at Younger Audience. Why are they advertising this? Do they really want to consumers to steer away from the LS? I don't know about the rest of you but Lexus marketing is taking a turn for the worse. If I was an LS owner, I don't want to see that my flagship vehicle has less rear leg room than the entry level luxury car that cost about 20-30k less. The ES has grown every generation and it's pretty damn scary. It doesn't feel like a midsize car.

Was chatting about various models with my salesman this morning while my LS500 was detailed for delivery

Nicely done!

 

[Levi]

Does Lexus/Toyota have any AWD hybrid sedan? I know the last LS600h was. But any other? I was quite interested in the CH-R, but it only available as FWD HEV or AWD ICE.

 

[Twiz]

Look at 1:48 in the following video, is that a rear seat back adjuster?

yeah thats cool, I also see that the ES will have heads-up display.