5th Generation Toyota RAV4 Master Thread

Will1991

Will1991

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@Joaquin Ruhi , considering it has 80 more hp, and a quite good EV range, I would say it’s reasonable priced. Also, isn’t PHEV/BEV rebate still available for Toyota?

I’m curious to see how this Powertrain will perform, but it looks it would be a amazing one to find it's way into the ES and the Camry... Toyota and Lexus wouldn’t be able to keep them in stock considering a reasonable price.
 
Joaquin Ruhi

Joaquin Ruhi

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ssun30 said:
Does US offer same subsidy to PHV and BEV?
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Depends on what kind of PHEV it is. Only Series Plug-in Hybrids (also called Extended Range Electric Vehicles [EREVs]) receive the same full $7500 tax credit as full BEVs. As defined by the U.S. government, EREVs are those where only the electric motor turns the wheels. The gasoline engine only generates electricity. Series plug-ins can run solely on electricity until the battery runs down. The gasoline engine then generates electricity to power the electric motor. According to a page on the U.S. government's FuelEconomy.gov website, the only plug-in hybrids eligible for the full $7500 are the BMW i3 Extended Range, the now-discontinued Chevrolet Volt, Chrysler Pacifica Plug-In Hybrid, Fisker Karma (and its Karma Revero successor), Honda Clarity Plug-In Hybrid, Polestar 1 and a quartet of VIA Motors conversions of GM full-size vans and pickup trucks to EREV powertrains. I'm pretty the Mazda MX-30 with rotary range extender would also qualify for the full $7500 tax credit whenever they get around to launching it and then sending it to the U.S.

Plug-in hybrids sold in the U.S. and not listed above are Parallel or Blended Plug-in Hybrids where both the engine and electric motor are connected to the wheels and propel the vehicle under most driving conditions. Electric-only operation usually occurs only at low speeds. The tax credit for those, if I'm interpreting a Wikipedia article correctly, is convoluted. You get a $2500 tax credit for a Parallel PHEV with up to 4kWh battery capacity. If the battery capacity is greater than that, you get an additional $417 credit per additional kWh of battery capacity in your PHEV up to an extra $5000 / 12 kWh. In other words, the PHEVs in the paragraph above have over 16 kWh of battery capacity.

Per the FuelEconomy.gov page linked above, the Plug-In version of the 3rd-gen Toyota Prius was entitled to the minimum $2500 PHEV tax credit, while its successor Prius Prime increased that to $4502. Although that page does not yet list the RAV4 Prime, its Toyota USA Newsroom pricing press release suggests that it will qualify for the maximum $7500 U.S. federal tax credit.
 
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ssun30

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^^From my previous estimates, the RAV4 Prime has a 18-19kWh battery with 14kWh usable. Does the US incentive count the total capacity or usable capacity?
 
Joaquin Ruhi

Joaquin Ruhi

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ssun30 said:
^^From my previous estimates, the RAV4 Prime has a 18-19kWh battery with 14kWh usable. Does the US incentive count the total capacity or usable capacity?
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It looks like they're going with official kWh battery ratings provided by the manufacturer. I'm not sure if you'd consider those numbers total or usable capacity.

I used the current Toyota Prius Prime as an example, and the numbers work out. Here are the numbers and the convoluted formula:

The Prius Prime's battery capacity is rated at 8.8 kWh. The plug-in hybrid tax credit starts from a base of $2500 for 4 kWh. Anything above that increases the credit by $417 per additional kWh. Thus, the "extra" 4.8 kWh adds 4.8 x 417 = $2001.60. The full Prius Prime credit should then be $2500 + $2001.60 = $4501.60. The FuelEconomy.gov Federal Tax Credits page rounds up the Prius Prime tax credit to $4502, so the formula works.
 
CRSKTN

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Comment sections around the internet are all flipping out about this thing.
 
Gecko

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CRSKTN said:
Comment sections around the internet are all flipping out about this thing.
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Good or bad? Everything I've seen has been very positive.

We stopped down to the new car showroom showroom this weekend (oil changes for both cars) and they have 28 pre-orders for the RAV4 Prime but no idea on allocation yet, aside from, "Very Low." It could very well replace our IS this year or next.
 
CRSKTN

CRSKTN

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Gecko said:
Good or bad? Everything I've seen has been very positive.

We stopped down to the new car showroom showroom this weekend (oil changes for both cars) and they have 28 pre-orders for the RAV4 Prime but no idea on allocation yet, aside from, "Very Low." It could very well replace our IS this year or next.
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Consistently positive everywhere. This thing is going to move fast. Havent seen a consensus for a car like this in a while.
 
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Jezza819

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That probably means that a NX with the same technology will be somewhere north of $50k.
 
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ssun30

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It is literally the perfect daily driver for anyone. A practical SUV with reasonable size, has the eco-friendly image, very usable EV range, low fuel consumption even with empty battery, enough performance for any ordinary driver with standard AWD, loaded with all amenities modern shoppers want, affordable after subsidies. This product ticks so many boxes and is definitely the most important product they have designed in the past five years, Lexus included. There are plenty of midsize plug-in SUVs in the market but none of them is as perfect as a whole package.
Unfortunately for Lexus this car has stolen all the spotlight that when the NX450h+ launches next year or 2022 It's no longer special and groundbreaking.
 
CRSKTN

CRSKTN

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ssun30 said:
It is literally the perfect daily driver for anyone. A practical SUV with reasonable size, has the eco-friendly image, very usable EV range, low fuel consumption even with empty battery, enough performance for any ordinary driver with standard AWD, loaded with all amenities modern shoppers want, affordable after subsidies. This product ticks so many boxes and is definitely the most important product they have designed in the past five years, Lexus included. There are plenty of midsize plug-in SUVs in the market but none of them is as perfect as a whole package.
Unfortunately for Lexus this car has stolen all the spotlight that when the NX450h+ launches next year or 2022 It's no longer special and groundbreaking.
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Are we expecting the electrification of the Lexus' won't be different at all to the prime configuration?

Would be surprised.

Ultimately if it does the same thing for an extra 10 or 15 grand, but everything is nicer, better designed, etc., that'll still be attractive and something I'd consider.
 
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spwolf

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i wonder what will be the biggest complaint about Prime? Too much FWD bias? Too heavy?
 
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Sulu

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spwolf said:
i wonder what will be the biggest complaint about Prime? Too much FWD bias? Too heavy?
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From whom -- drivers or auto critics?

Critics will no doubt complain that the infotainment system is terrible and the vehicle is too slow.
 
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ssun30

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CRSKTN said:
Are we expecting the electrification of the Lexus' won't be different at all to the prime configuration?

Would be surprised.

Ultimately if it does the same thing for an extra 10 or 15 grand, but everything is nicer, better designed, etc., that'll still be attractive and something I'd consider.
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Probably the only difference will be E-Axle, but I'm not positive about that. The E-Axle could be reserved for ES and RX. The E-Axle will make the NX more RWD biased unlike the FWD biased RAV4 PHV.
 
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spwolf

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Sulu said:
From whom -- drivers or auto critics?

Critics will no doubt complain that the infotainment system is terrible and the vehicle is too slow.
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Critics - be that forum dwellers or professional ones.

Future owners like their Toyota and Lexii, hence buying them in record levels :)
 
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