5th Generation (2018+) Lexus LS 500 & LS 500h Megathread

[spwolf]

I usually don't listen to much of anything that Motortrend says, but I feel here that they actually have some valid points.

First off, as we know from insider information, it is a fact that development of the 5LS was a conflicted process. Objectively looking at the car, it's mission in the marketplace is a conflicted one compared to previous generations of LS.

Also regarding worse body integrity, I again feel they have a point here. While I haven't driven the 5LS, I can logically see this as a possibility. You've got the stiff F-Sport suspension combined with low profile run flat tires. That to me logically sounds like a recipe for a bad ride and possibly some body integrity issues. Another reason why I feel their point may be valid is that I recently had a bad experience with a used 2016 RX350 with about 50K km (about 31K miles on it). This RX (with the 20 inch rims) had a very rough ride on city roads, and I also noticed some body integrity issues cropping on. This was a regular model, it wasn't even an F-Sport, and it had regular all season Michelin tires. It had the 20 inch rims yes, but those still have a 55 profile tire on those rims. So overall I was surprised and disappointed with my experience.

Going back to the 5LS, I continue to be very against the decision to put run flats standard on the 5LS (and LC). Also run flats are standard on the UX in North America, and available in some other world markets. Outside of North America at least thankfully regular tires are available as well. Some reviews have already criticized the UX for having a harsh ride, and to be honest Motortrend is not the first outlet I've seen criticize the 5LS ride. I mean I have to keep asking...what in God's name was Lexus thinking making run flats standard on several models now? The majority of world markets do not have great roads. Countries with glass smooth roads like Japan are actually a large minority among world markets. Also in some markets like the US and Canada, roads are arguably getting worse, not better. So again, I have to ask what was Lexus thinking here? Is Akio Toyoda so desperate to ape some of the German competition who stock many of their models with standard run flats? How many existing Lexus customers worldwide were actually asking for run flat tires? I feel like this is an answer to a question most Lexus owners and buyers never asked.

Not sure what do LS and RX have in common? I dont think their rides can be compared. RX always had bad ride with big tires, LS firmer but not bad ride - plenty of members have it here. I am sure new RX will be massively improved with TNGA update.

Same goes for UX, pretty much every review says it has very composed ride, despite good and relatively flat handling.

Lexus and Toyota really managed to get the medium right, where you have good handling car that is not too stiff over the bumps...

World has changed, barges like before do not work anymore and latest Toyota and Lexus vehicles worldwide have been getting best ever review scores. New Corolla, CHR, Camry, Rav4, UX, ES have received positive reviews across different countries and continents, which never happened before.

Run flat tires seem like very old story... new ones are much better than before, and it in the, if you are buying 50k Lexus, then you can also replace the tires if you really want, but usually it makes very little difference or sense.

 

[CIF]

Not sure what do LS and RX have in common? I dont think their rides can be compared. RX always had bad ride with big tires, LS firmer but not bad ride - plenty of members have it here. I am sure new RX will be massively improved with TNGA update.

Same goes for UX, pretty much every review says it has very composed ride, despite good and relatively flat handling.

Lexus and Toyota really managed to get the medium right, where you have good handling car that is not too stiff over the bumps...

World has changed, barges like before do not work anymore and latest Toyota and Lexus vehicles worldwide have been getting best ever review scores. New Corolla, CHR, Camry, Rav4, UX, ES have received positive reviews across different countries and continents, which never happened before.

Run flat tires seem like very old story... new ones are much better than before, and it in the, if you are buying 50k Lexus, then you can also replace the tires if you really want, but usually it makes very little difference or sense.

I was relating my RX experience to the possibility of body integrity issues on the 5LS. Very simple.

Well no, there are several auto media reviews out there that have criticized the UX for a stiff, harsh ride. I think a lot depends on whether the UX is equipped with standard or run flat tires. I won't bother digging up the links, but the reviews are all out there if you objectively look for them.

World has changed...in some world markets perhaps. In many other world markets, ride comfort and high QDR and strong NVH all remain top priorities.

Also auto media reviews are one thing. The ultimate measure of a vehicle's success is sales, and how much customers and owners like the vehicles. For example, the new Corolla hatch. Yes it's gotten great auto media reviews, no question. However if you look on Youtube, several real-world owner reviews mention a harsh, stiff ride on rough roads (mostly for the XSE trim).

 

[ssun30]

^^It's unfortunate many carmakers develop their cars for countries with good infrastructure so they lose an idea of how soft their ride needs to be to handle the failing roads in U.S. I never realized the 5LS has a considerably harder ride than the 4LS, feel sorry for you guys.

 

[Gecko]

IMO, having driven the LS 500, it feels like it was carved out of granite - whether you're cruising on the interstate or on back roads at 60 MPH. I have plenty of gripes about the car, but body rigidity is certainly not one.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Is Akio Toyoda so desperate to ape some of the German competition who stock many of their models with standard run flats? How many existing Lexus customers worldwide were actually asking for run flat tires? I feel like this is an answer to a question most Lexus owners and buyers never asked.

I'd argue that if Akio read LE (and much moreso CL), the overwhelming message from people who don't like recent Lexus models comes across as "be more German", especially wrt powertrains. So he's bringing in a German powertrain (allegedly) and imitating the Germans' annoying option package hell with the F Sport models and trialling a version of the Germans' mega-lease things.

As far as the LS500, body rigidity is simply not a problem, and with it set to Comfort mode I don't find the ride significantly harsher than the 4LS. (And when I turn on the massage feature, I no longer notice the ride quality). When the tires need replacing I'm going to specify not run-flats and see if the ride improves further.

 

[peterharvey]

The new 7ES has a reduced fuel tank size so that the NiMH battery pack can be sandwiched beneath the rear seat base to both lower the center of gravity and maximize the size of the trunk.

Does anyone know if the LS500h's battery pack is also sandwiched between the rear seat base and the fuel tank to maximize the size of the LS's trunk?

 

[Will1991]

Nope, it's like 2GS:

 

[zeusus]

Just dropping this here from my recent LS sighting at the Shuangliu Int'l Airport, Chengdu, China

 

[Spunky D]

I

I'd argue that if Akio read LE (and much moreso CL), the overwhelming message from people who don't like recent Lexus models comes across as "be more German", especially wrt powertrains. So he's bringing in a German powertrain (allegedly) and imitating the Germans' annoying option package hell with the F Sport models and trialling a version of the Germans' mega-lease things.

As far as the LS500, body rigidity is simply not a problem, and with it set to Comfort mode I don't find the ride significantly harsher than the 4LS. (And when I turn on the massage feature, I no longer notice the ride quality). When the tires need replacing I'm going to specify not run-flats and see if the ride improves further.

I have now had my LS500(with air suspension) for 6 months. I can spend another page on some of it's shortcomings, but with regard to the ride, I feel that is a downgrade from my previous LS's(400, 430 and 430 post 2005).
Unfortunately it was delivered with the tyres inflated to 44PSI!! It wasn't till I questioned the dealer about the harsh ride that they told me this and deflated the pressures to 40PSI. This improved the ride somewhat, but once I deflated them to the recommended 36PSI, then I noticed even further improvement.
I have tried all the different ride modes including custom normal and now use it routinely in comfort mode which I find the best.
I surmise that it is the 20" wheels and run flat tyres that contribute to the harsh ride.The ride is nowhere as good as my 2006 LS430 especially on tram tracks and pot holes where the 430 would soak up with little feedback. The LS500 jolts to the point where your whole body undergoes a shock almost like being defibrillated!!!!

I guess it boils down to "THE LOOK" vs comfort. Like you I would happily have non run flats(But wait there is NO SPARE) and also would choose 19" wheels to further improve the ride.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

^^ If you came directly from an LS430 to the LS500, that would be quite a jolt! The LS460 was a significant amount of the way there, so it seemed less of a jump to me. That's a good idea with the tire pressure, I should check where mine's at. I'm pretty sure it's below 40 though.

 

[mmcartalk]

The reason the tires got delivered with 44 PSI is that the PDI (Pre-Delivery-Inspection) people at the dealership often don't do their job correctly and check them when the vehicle arrives at the dealership and rolls off of the transporter. (What do you expect for minimum wage LOL?) . When the vehicles are shipped from the factory, tires are deliberately pumped up over normal, to account for both PSI loss enroute and to protect the expensive alloy wheel rims from contacting the floor of the train/truck/ship during rocking motions enroute. Too often (and I usually check this when I do review or test-drive), the PSIs are not adjusted to factory-recommended, the tires have too much air in them.......and I have to do it myself.

 

[zeusus]

Any buzz with the LS+?

I saw someone post that it got canned.

 

[RAL]

Any buzz with the LS+?

I saw someone post that it got canned.

I saw that too ... only speculation ...

 

[zeusus]

I saw that too ... only speculation ...

Wheres the origin of that speculation? I saw it was from Carmaker1, I tried searching to no avail. Where is that post if you don't mind.

 

[RAL]

Wheres the origin of that speculation? I saw it was from Carmaker1, I tried searching to no avail. Where is that post if you don't mind.

I read so much ... sorry I don't remember, but I don't think it was Carmaker1. I may have read it amidst the comments on the March sales report.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Any buzz with the LS+?

I saw someone post that it got canned.

I saw that too ... only speculation ...

Wheres the origin of that speculation? I saw it was from Carmaker1, I tried searching to no avail. Where is that post if you don't mind.

Opinions are mixed on the future of a production fuel cell LS+, as I noted towards the end of a Kaizen Factor piece I wrote in December 2018. The Just-Auto piece that inspired it states that "Several years before it potentially launches a crossover which runs on hydrogen, TMC is expected to build an LS Fuel Cell. This big sedan is said to be part of a range of vehicles which the firm wants to have ready to showcase in time for the 2020 Tokyo Olympic Games".

On the other hand, Carmaker1's assertion that the Fuel Cell LS+ program is dead was made in page 24 of our Official Toyota & Lexus Future Powertrain/Product Discussion thread.

 

[RAL]

Opinions are mixed on the future of a production fuel cell LS+, as I noted towards the end of a Kaizen Factor piece I wrote in December 2018. The Just-Auto piece that inspired it states that "Several years before it potentially launches a crossover which runs on hydrogen, TMC is expected to build an LS Fuel Cell. This big sedan is said to be part of a range of vehicles which the firm wants to have ready to showcase in time for the 2020 Tokyo Olympic Games".

On the other hand, Carmaker1's assertion that the Fuel Cell LS+ program is dead was made in page 24 of our Official Toyota & Lexus Future Powertrain/Product Discussion thread.

Thank you @Joaquin Ruhi ... My mistake ... I was mistakenly thinking of a comment I read questioning a forthcoming LS F due to depressed LS sales.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Thank you @Joaquin Ruhi ... My mistake ... I was mistakenly thinking of a comment I read questioning a forthcoming LS F due to depressed LS sales.

No worries. I know that the flip side of a super well-informed forum community such as ours is information overload and keeping it all organized in our heads...

 

[zeusus]

Perhaps its not the first time this topic was discussed but could the 2018 LS be just a place holder to wait for the LS+ to release along with the new S Class in a head to head competition? Hopefully there is some discussion on this by some of our forum insiders enthusiasts.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

The LS+ isn't majorly different from the earlier LS-FC concept, which we know is going to be the basis of the first LS500 refresh. So in that respect you aren't wrong.

I don't think going head to head with the S Class is necessarily what they're interested in, though.