3rd Generation Toyota Tundra (2022+) Master Thread

bogglo

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Crying laughing from this hand wringing over nothing
I could say so many things about the state of Toyota in the last few years, but I'll keep that to myself. In the immediate context, Toyota needs to be very careful to listen to and meet the needs of North American customers and not alienate them. For body-on-frame trucks and SUVs, in North America people love powerful engines, and especially engines with lots of torque. The American competition in the last few years has gone into overdrive offering so many large engines. Ford, GM, Dodge, Jeep all have a variety of very powerful V8s available, especially in many of their off-road models. FCA has done a tremendous job offering V8s almost everywhere. They've taken a financial penalty due to CAFE or EPA rules I've heard, but if that's what it takes to satisfy the wants and needs of North American customers at this time, so be it. I'm not advocating Toyota do exactly this, but Toyota needs to just be very aware. The Wrangler has a huge V8 available, the Ram TRX is an extreme off-road machine, then you have the extremely competitive Bronco (with evidence that Ford will unveil even more extreme Bronco variants including possibly turbo V6 or V8 engines) and you have the new Ford Raptor which will also get even more extreme with the future Raptor R variant. So my question to Toyota, where are you in terms of competing? Where are the big, strong engines for your body-on-frame trucks and SUVs?

To keep this short, whatever engine and transmission combinations the new Tundra, Sequoia, 4Runner, Tacoma, etc. will have...they need be engines with lots of torque paired with responsive transmissions. Also the pedal and throttle response needs to be great, and not dull or laggy. Aside from being fast and powerful, the new generation vehicles need to also feel fast and powerful. The current Tacoma feels slow, and the current 4Runner is slow.

In Covid times here, Toyota could have easily virtually premiered the Tundra by now. What's the hold up? Even if the Tundra only reaches showrooms in December or early next year, doesn't matter, just premiere it now already. It's even more mind-boggling considering the exterior has already leaked out.



On the consumer side, a heavy-duty hybrid system from Toyota has been rumored for over 10 years now. On the commercial Hino side, Toyota has had a heavy-duty hybrid system available for over 20 years now.
At the end of the day it comes down to who is making bank. Big V8s with torque and power is nothing new in North America trucks and I don't think it will stop anytime soon. However that hasn't stop Toyota from being competitive in the truck market obviously torque and power is not everything to the consumers in this market.
 
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And the SRT brand was just disbanded by Stellantis. The fact a brand with such a high carbon footprint could last so long and have so much popularity is a shame to the American auto industry. Ford and GM are transforming their image to be more eco-conscious while FCA had close to zero investment on more efficient ICE and electrification technology, and it will bite them in the very near future. The RAM TRX and Wranger 392 are very irresponsible products released to irresponsible consumers; at some point people need to change their consumption habits. What FCA has been doing before should not be encouraged.

LMAO. How rich of you calling them irresponsible where China is the world's number 1 producer of carbon emissions. Karens like you need to calm the hell down with your ethnocentric attitude.

Did you also forget that cars/trucks only produce like 2% of global emissions? How much do you think a couple of big-engined trucks and cars to those emissions numbers? Focus more on manufacturing, where they create a ton of waste. What about waste management? Biological, nuclear, and manufactural wastes are all way bigger issues than cars LOL.

I get how China promised themselves that they wanted to be the leader of EV's, and that's great. But nobody else really cares other than getting market share at the moment. No need to be authoritarian.
 
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CRSKTN

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LMAO. How rich of you calling them irresponsible where China is the world's number 1 producer of carbon emissions. Karens like you need to calm the hell down with your ethnocentric attitude.

Did you also forget that cars/trucks only produce like 2% of global emissions? How much do you think a couple of big-engined trucks and cars to those emissions numbers? Focus more on manufacturing, where they create a ton of waste. What about waste management? Biological, nuclear, and manufactural wastes are all way bigger issues than cars LOL.

I get how China promised themselves that they wanted to be the leader of EV's, and that's great. But nobody else really cares other than getting market share at the moment. No need to be authoritarian.

And also the whole ughyur genocide and a history of murdering protestors thing too.

We are deploying tons of money to repatriate value and supply chains. They will only become more isolated and reliant on their own, limited internal IP production capabilities.
 

ssun30

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And yet Ford, GM, not to mention Tesla, are American companies contributing valuable innovations proving you don't need huge inefficient engines to make capable products like FCA has been doing. How do you read that as being "ethnocentric"?

And BTW whataboutism does not make arguments any stronger.
 
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And yet Ford, GM, not to mention Tesla, are American companies contributing valuable innovations proving you don't need huge inefficient engines to make capable products like FCA has been doing. How do you read that as being "ethnocentric"?

And BTW whataboutism does not make arguments any stronger.

Ford and GM are doing that, sure. But they also cater to their market by offering gargantuan engines (see the ubiquitous Chevy 6.2L and the all-new Ford 7.3L V8 engines). Stellantis doesn't need to do this as much because most of their buyer base WANTS their current lineup of products.

I mention ethnocentric because you generally (more like only) see things from one point of view and that's China. You've done this with the luxury car market and your notion that most buyers cant notice the difference between FWD and RWD. You did this again by laughably justifying BMW's horrible decision with those grills and projected that NA buyers buy them as well (newsflash, almost all BMW dealerships in America are almost getting NO orders for the new M3 and M4, and it has to do with that ugly-ass face, I don't know about Canada and Europe though). Third, your attitude with SRT being a "shame to the American auto industry". Newsflash again, SRT isn't gone per se, but they're split up now into multiple entities now, so you can continue being a Karen and remain disappointed in a manufacturer that are catering to their enthusiast buyer base and happen to be proud of these cars themselves, even though they're not as advanced as some other cars. So what?

Lastly, and someone mentioned this to me in private message. I did some digging and their claims were right. You've also made several highly demeaning jabs at other OEM's (not like criticisms), but statements that give off a horrible ethnocentric vibe, and devalued their work in front of people who truly know what's going on in the manufacturer (this OEM was actually American). If you're still not getting my drift, you insulted someone who had a huge involvement with a manufacturer regarding some huge projects and you (being you), just royally shat on it. Even though what they were doing was truly f*cking impressive.

So yes, ethnocentric. I don't just "say things" and make points for no reason. That's not my brand.

Rant over and I rest my case.
 
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From my colleagues back in Feb, there were talks about it being delayed to 2022 as in 2023 model year. However, with the Tokyo olympics, there are speculations of toyota rolling out models at a faster rate. So, who knows.
 

Gecko

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Employees are now getting to see and drive the Tundra, and I keep reading and hearing the same thing which is that it's a "class killer." Let's hope that's true and not just built up anticipation since there hasn't been a "new Tundra" since 2007.

Also, it should be revealed pretty soon.
 
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And the SRT brand was just disbanded by Stellantis. The fact a brand with such a high carbon footprint could last so long and have so much popularity is a shame to the American auto industry. Ford and GM are transforming their image to be more eco-conscious while FCA had close to zero investment on more efficient ICE and electrification technology, and it will bite them in the very near future. The RAM TRX and Wranger 392 are very irresponsible products released to irresponsible consumers; at some point people need to change their consumption habits. What FCA has been doing before should not be encouraged.
The TRX and the like are to Americans what European supercars and handbags are to wealthy, rich superficial people in China, they buy what they like and don't care. For many Americans, trucks are the working man's vehicle, the blue-collar type. To them, Teslas and vehicles like the Prius are seen as elitists.
 
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Gecko

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A friend of mine just bought a new 2021 F-150 PowerBoost (the hybrid). Wow. The technology, features and refinement of this truck are insane.

I also didn't realize the hybrid is 0-60 in 5.3 seconds. 😲

Toyota... we're waiting.
 

supra93

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Does that mean we're getting an electric Tundra?


  • Toyota plans on bringing electrification to its truck lineup, including hybrid and BEV powertrains
 
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My guess is not right away. Probably a hybrid then fully electric in 3-4 years. They don’t even have a fully electric car yet so I think they will focus on that. A plug in hybrid system would be amazing on the Tundra though!
 
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I hinted at it once.
BEV is still in developmental phases. Whats wild is that I am hearing Tacoma>Tundra in progression.

It comes out of the slammer to solidify its "king of the hill" position.
 

CIF

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Gecko, please let this reply be as this is very relevant to the Tundra.

And the SRT brand was just disbanded by Stellantis. The fact a brand with such a high carbon footprint could last so long and have so much popularity is a shame to the American auto industry. Ford and GM are transforming their image to be more eco-conscious while FCA had close to zero investment on more efficient ICE and electrification technology, and it will bite them in the very near future. The RAM TRX and Wranger 392 are very irresponsible products released to irresponsible consumers; at some point people need to change their consumption habits. What FCA has been doing before should not be encouraged.

What a strange, strange post. What exactly are you getting at here?

- First, yes SRT was disbanded but Stellantis also said high performance vehicles with high performance engines are absolutely not going away for Stellantis. So either SRT will be resurrected or they will simply be branded something else. This really doesn't mean much overall.
- A shame to the American auto industry? Are you kidding? According to your logic, is it a 'shame' then that GM and Ford also offer a variety of V8 engines still? Is it a 'shame' that Toyota still offers V8 engines? What about all of the grey market vehicles with V8 engines that China allows into their country? Do you think that is also a 'shame'? By offering V8s, Stellantis has simply been making what North American customers want (instead of compliance or emission specials that other automakers are overly focused on). V8 engines (and large, powerful engines in general) have been a part of North American culture for over 100 years.
- Stellantis already has hybrids on the market, and is working on a future electrification strategy. There simply isn't much worldwide demand for EVs. Currently, EVs are mostly hype driven by politicians and various private special interests like venture capitalists. EVs are nowhere close to being suitable for most average consumers in many markets. Stellantis knows this, as does Toyota (among other automakers). Toyota has been more focused on hybrids and hydrogen, and only recently has increased its focus on EVs a little bit mainly for future coming government compliance reasons.
- Ford, as in the same Ford that introduced a 7.3L V8 engine for trucks in 2019 and is strongly rumored to be developing another new V8 engine of 6.8L displacement? Also is this the same Ford we're taking about that's due to introduce a V8-powered Ford Raptor R within the next year or so? Not sure what image you're taking about, but the reality is that Ford of America is still heavily focused on V8 engines. Is that also a 'shame' to you?
- Speaking of carbon footprints, currently the entire life cycle (from mining raw materials to production) of EV batteries and electric motors requires a very high carbon footprint. Are you going to talk about that, or is that given a free pass just because it's EV technology? What about the difficulty of recycling EV batteries? That is looking as a likely future environmental catastrophe, just like the plastics recycling lie that the oil and gas industries came up with and the world is now suffering with.
- You cannot force consumer change in North America overnight. If you think it's "irresponsible" to be catering to consumers, then you know very little about business and you're going to be in for a shock especially with regards to the North American market. If the Biden administration or any other administrations try to ban V8 engines or internal combustion engines overnight, there's going to be a huge consumer backlash in North America. New vehicle sales will drop, and used vehicle prices will greatly increase in price. Consumers will simply keep their used vehicles longer. If any administration is then foolish enough to take used internal combustion vehicles off the road, that will have huge political and social consequences in terms of voter anger.
- The fact is, EVs are nowhere close to being suitable for most average consumers in the auto market. In some cases, like extreme heavy duty scenarios or extreme off-roading, EVs will likely never be suitable for that. Hydrogen is also not mature enough yet to replace internal combustion engines. Various governments that are in a state of hysteria with pushing EVs need to be very careful in certain countries, as this enthusiastic EV push by governments could easily cause huge voter backlash in different parts of the world.
- It's also ironic that you made this post, given you've previously praised different V8-powered vehicles that you've driven.

Overall your post is hypocritical at best, and at worst it shows a complete lack of understanding of the North American auto market.

At the end of the day it comes down to who is making bank. Big V8s with torque and power is nothing new in North America trucks and I don't think it will stop anytime soon. However that hasn't stop Toyota from being competitive in the truck market obviously torque and power is not everything to the consumers in this market.

Interesting you say that because for many years now Toyota has left money on the table here. Toyota could be making a lot more money in North America if they still offered a V6 in the Rav4, a V8 in the 4Runner and Tacoma, etc. If Toyota had the courage to enter the heavy duty truck market in North America with a heavy duty Tundra, then they also would have been making A LOT more money than they are now.

So I kind of disagree here. At the end of the day, it comes down to Toyota's ego or pride, strange internal disagreements, and likely some political considerations of why Toyota has left money on the table here. The Tacoma is very competitive in terms of market share yes, but the Tundra has never been considered a major player in the North American truck segment marketshare-wise.

Toyota as recently as a couple of years ago was complaining that their North American operations were losing money at one point. Really makes you wonder doesn't it?

Does that mean we're getting an electric Tundra?


An important clarification. In Toyota terminology, electrification does NOT simply mean EVs. It could mean hybrid, hydrogen, or EV technology.
 
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