(2025MY+) 380D Camry Discussion

[Carmaker1]

I've not commented much on this vehicle here, despite probably having a good degree of intel on it from someone who has test driven the vehicle, particularly in a performance trim level I will call "TRD" for now.

Please ignore the misinformed coverage being provided by KK on YouTube, regarding this new "2024" Camry. It isn't right, as the 2024 MY Camry is entering production in 5 weeks and it's carryover. No changes.

According to some people I've been sharing this with, particularly a cousin of mine who only posts on GM and Ford sites, many people keep getting misled by that. I don't think what I have to say counts for much on a greater level with a lot of ignoramuses believing Kirk, because they'll find out eventually, just like they did with the 2023 Lexus GX, 2023 Toyota Tacoma, and 2023 Toyota 4Runner being carryover after they all propagandized .

Toyota is subject to delays just like any other automaker. I have been very on target following any changes in launch trajectory. When I learn about any delays, I mention them as quickly as possible. I do make mistakes of my own and more so from bad insight, but I do my best to make retractions if wrong. I don't sit on it and skip away to into the next dimension, when I get something wrong. This is huge problem I have with most vloggers, who are not being more responsible with their messaging. I have asked a few people to spread this message around (plus Ford stuff), but I don't think they're making a difference.

Anyway, if we determine at reveal, that it's still the same 8th generation with a heavy facelift, we can hopefully keep the title as it is or if indeed Gen 9, moderators correct the title accordingly. I believe Toyota after 7 years, will consider it a generation change, but a Major-Minor Change like the 2016 Tacoma.

Here are the bullet points, copy-pasted from another post of mine on VW-focused multi-brand subforum, called The Car Lounge:

My expectation for a few years now, has been:

• MY 2025 on a revised TNGA-K modular architecture as Major Minor Change
  
  • Toyota Technical Center Ann Arbor and York Township, Saline, MI have sole responsibility for the 380D Program.
  • NO JP HQ Input anymore
• 2GR-FKS 3.5L V6 replaced by the 2.4L turbocharged T24A-FTS as a new addition
• TRD/GR Version Has AWD and was tested by my source 11 months ago, being able to do high 4s 0-60 MPH and had 350 hp.
  • I've been private about this, but I did notice recently someone else echoed the same numbers elsewhere online and mentioned WRX-grade (Legacy) type targets. I don't think I'm their source for that info, so my own source might be independently correct.
• Camry Prime PHEV under consideration
• 2.5L NA A25A allegedly carries over
• SOP is February/March 2024
• MY 2025 introduction in Spring 2024.
• Revealed in Q4 2023 (I've said November, but could be wrong)

Spoiler: Rest of Text

The above has held up as accurate apparently.

As someone who carefully takes an interest in high revenue products and/or segment leaders, I've the past 4 years or so kept on eye on major industry developments, even if it doesn't concern my own work.

Toyota over the past 4 years, has been carefully tooling away on the program for the next generation Camry, now called internally 380D. Final styling work concluded during 2021, but I can't say I know when design freeze occurred.

I would suspect by early 2022, considering there have been prototypes running around, even test driven by one of our very own (TCL) users a year ago (who shared this with me)! Said by them to have roughly 350 hp at the time and powered by Hybrid Max T24A-FTS with AWD.(apologize for leaking)

I've been commenting on this 380D vehicle for MY 2025 in multiple online spots, in an informative capacity for some 2-3 years, due to early insight I had stumbled upon in 2020, just as the current model entered mid-cycle. It notably received a very mild Mid-Model Change (MMC) in October 2020 for MY 2021. At the time in early 2020, I "declared" it would be redesigned for MY 2024.

From what I first noticed a year later in the summer of 2021, is how 380D production start was listed for February 2024 and March 2024 in another database. Within a few months, I deduced it was not a 2024.5 model, but an early 2025 model like the 2007 Camry (XV40) in March 2006.

I based this on the End of Production (EOP) for the current XV70 Camry, itself developed from January 2013 to 2017 under the 010B Program.

Based on recent Toyota reveals post 2020 (COVID-19 changes), I also deduced it would be revealed at the end of 2023, similar to the 2023 Prius being first shown in November 2022. Toyota is following seasons with their reveals and I've gotten a pulse on how they're operating...

Some insiders say my claims were correct in regards to MY/Job 1/Reveal/etc, but I've been cautious with jumping to conclusions with no official information.

If the March 2024 SOP date still remains, the reveal date of November 2023 should hold through. A lot of media entities have as usual reported false info on this development and called it a 2023/24 model, despite being informed otherwise. I have to play clean up and do their job for them I guess.

Not to mention, have drawn up misleading renderings, despite common knowledge being that it was a MAJOR MINOR CHANGE, akin to the 2016 Toyota Tacoma not being all-new from scratch like its 2005MY redesign. The Tacoma as you know, is all-new for 2024 and beats this new Camry by barely under half a year into showrooms.

What I have said since 2021 is this:

MAJOR MINOR CHANGE = Moderate redesign on the same architecture, with new powertrains and revised underbody. These typically count as a new generation vehicle, unlike the 2014 Toyota Tundra and 2015 Camry, not regarded as such.

Save for my own mistakes, this is why I hate misinformation and do my best to rely on internal insight, not ignorant guesstimates as an (corporate) outsider. (If the inside info is tainted or shared to me in bad faith...🤷‍♂️) As a working industry professional, it disappoints me how poor a job with investigate reporting, that the automotive media does and it's why, I kind of like to fill in the gap where I can (as someone well informed), in my free time.

Anyone with common sense, could see the obvious, but it's often missed anyway. The next generation Accord sedan might be dead as you know it currently, for MY 2028. Not sure what that means for this vehicle, but who knows really.

I created this thread despite existing discussion, because this vehicle is no longer 010B-related and has its own designation 380D. Bunching it into the old thread, buries it under 2018-24MY discussion.

 

[bogglo]

If toyota brings a camry in 4seconds range to the market before a lexus sedan with a better capability then I will just conclude that Toyota is the new Lexus. And that lexus has lost its rank.

 

[Carmaker1]

If toyota brings a camry in 4seconds range to the market before a lexus sedan with a better capability then I will just conclude that Toyota is the new Lexus. And that lexus has lost its rank.

I am really sorry about that, I meant high-4s. My mind did a number on me there. To date, I have hidden those test results from his firm that tested the car back in June/early July 2022. It's not 4 seconds flat, but 4.7-4.9. I'm sure it will have been buckled down by now to a tighter range.

 

[bogglo]

I am really sorry about that, I meant high-4s. My mind did a number on me there. To date, I have hidden those test results from his firm that tested the car back in June/early July 2022. It's not 4 seconds flat, but 4.7-4.9. I'm sure it will have been buckled down by now to a tighter range.

That's still impressive from a camry

 

[Gecko]

I’ve heard next gen Camry will be all-hybrid, so I assume the GR Camry will be as well?

It would make sense to me: ~340hp/400lb-ft with Direct4 and ~3,800lbs is probably the only way it’s getting to under 5 seconds 0-60. 2.4T ain’t getting there on its own, even with AWD, unless it’s seriously tuned.

 

[Carmaker1]

I’ve heard next gen Camry will be all-hybrid, so I assume the GR Camry will be as well?

It would make sense to me: ~340hp/400lb-ft with Direct4 and ~3,800lbs is probably the only way it’s getting to under 5 seconds 0-60. 2.4T ain’t getting there on its own, even with AWD, unless it’s seriously tuned.

All hybrid? I never asked him, but that's interesting. Maybe it's just A25A-FXS and T24A-FTS Hybrid Max shared with Crown now.

I do think it definitely might be 350 hp, because of echoed chatter I've heard recently on that front and the peculiar mention of "WRX Fighter". I haven't discussed those numbers much at all, until the first spy shots appeared and that other person mentioned this before I publicized it.

I was shocked, because I initially dismissed it as probably 340 like the Crown. At the time, he was getting the Crown for testing from Kanda and it hadn't been revealed yet.

My source called it "Camry TRD", but he words things in his own way, that can be easily misinterpreted and actually mean something else. The technical details tend to be more ironclad. I'm more shocked that would even exist at all in the first place, seeing consumer trends. Honda just seems "over" the Accord.

 

[Gecko]

All hybrid? I never asked him, but that's interesting. Maybe it's just A25A-FXS and T24A-FTS Hybrid Max shared with Crown now.

I do think it definitely might be 350 hp, because of echoed chatter I've heard recently on that front and the peculiar mention of "WRX Fighter". I haven't discussed those numbers much at all, until the first spy shots appeared and that other person mentioned this before I publicized it.

I was shocked, because I initially dismissed it as probably 340 like the Crown. At the time, he was getting the Crown for testing from Kanda and it hadn't been revealed yet.

My source called it "Camry TRD", but he words things in his own way, that can be easily misinterpreted and actually mean something else. The technical details tend to be more ironclad. I'm more shocked that would even exist at all in the first place, seeing consumer trends. Honda just seems "over" the Accord.

I guess a GR tune of the powertrain might yield a little more power?

I don't know this for sure, but the way it seemed to me is that performance variants of BOF vehicles would be "TRD PRO" in North America, performance variants of passenger cars would be "GR" and Toyota was trying to figure out what to do with crossovers, which blend the two.

At this point with GR Supra, GR 86 and GR Corolla, GR Camry seems to make the most sense to me.

I guess we will see!

 

[Sulu]

Any insight about the next-generation ES? When can we expect it? What powertrain options will there be? (I am hoping for a ES h+ PHEV.)

 

[Gor134]

Any insight about the next-generation ES? When can we expect it? What powertrain options will there be? (I am hoping for a ES h+ PHEV.)

Same as Crown most likely

 

[carguy420]

To be able to dip into the 4 second zone is pretty damn good, I can't remember the last time there's a FWD based midsize mainstream sedan (EVs aside) that can do that straight from the factory.

 

[Gor134]

Fusion Sport got very close with AWD, and the K5 GT/Sonata N-Line is also very close though it's FWD with no LSD.. all in the low 5s.. maybe if they give the two Koreans LSD or AWD they might be able to break into the 4s.

 

[carguy420]

Fusion Sport got very close with AWD, and the K5 GT/Sonata N-Line is also very close though it's FWD with no LSD.. all in the low 5s.. maybe if they give the two Koreans LSD or AWD they might be able to break into the 4s.

The strange thing is Hyundai and Kia gave the base engine Sonatas and K5s the AWD option, when the ones that need AWD the most are the top spec models with the 2.5l turbo.

 

[Motorsnwheels]

Wow! Tons of info on this thread and I hope the timeline stays true. Also, super glad to see that Toyota still cares about sedans and is willing to make an investment. I personally am between pickup trucks and sedans, all these little CUVs aren’t my thing. I really like the Camry XSE hybrid so I’m excited to see this new or heavily redesigned model. Thanks for all the insight carmaker!

 

[Carmaker1]

I guess a GR tune of the powertrain might yield a little more power?

I don't know this for sure, but the way it seemed to me is that performance variants of BOF vehicles would be "TRD PRO" in North America, performance variants of passenger cars would be "GR" and Toyota was trying to figure out what to do with crossovers, which blend the two.

At this point with GR Supra, GR 86 and GR Corolla, GR Camry seems to make the most sense to me.

I guess we will see!

That's what I thought and they were changing course with TRD. On the off chance my comment reverberates back to him, let me mind my wording of it all. I think you might be more onto something in terms of GR, versus rehashing TRD. I guess this more a watered down version of the redesign for MY 2007. That got an all-new tophat (upper body) and revised K Platform (underbody), with new powertrains and interior design.

This one will be interesting, which hopefully holds the launch date and stops spiraling out of control. This was a MY 2024 originally from inception, but source said in mid-2022 that it had slipped back from July 2023 SOP to March 2024. Then noted that the 4Runner (930B), became 6 months further delayed to July 2024 SOP.

As for the tune, I'm taking it with a grain of salt. The same source means well, but I'll see.

One just has to be careful with sources, as explained to me by a retired engineer and not be so giddy to assume their info will be correct to the end. (I mentioned the Bronco Hybrid in 2019-20, which was on/off for initial intro and I wasn't on a T6 need-to-know basis anyway)

Any insight about the next-generation ES? When can we expect it? What powertrain options will there be? (I am hoping for a ES h+ PHEV.)

Very concerned about the lack of trademarks for ES 500h or ES 500h+...

I know they showed the car 17.5 months ago next to TX, but is it actually still coming? Hopefully any of you can answer that question, because between IS, LS, and ES, it's odd they haven't secured any trademarks. QA personnel at TMMK mentioned that the XE30 will be the last vehicle to have 2GR-FKS, but not so sure about that....

 

[ssun30]

EPA's new emissions rules put a hard deadline on the 2GR-FKS (and 2UR-GSE). So you can be quite sure neither those engines will survive beyond 2026.

 

[internalaudit]

Nice. Any tidbits on the handling department besides the AWD offering?

 

[mikeavelli]

I assume same as Crown which makes sense? Maybe a base non hybrid?
236ho/41 mpg hybrid. I assume fwd with awd option
TRD/GR gets the 340-366hp 2.4 with direct 4?

Tho maybe Prius power train so it has more mpg than the Accord?

 

[qtb007]

I assume same as Crown which makes sense? Maybe a base non hybrid?
236ho/41 mpg hybrid. I assume fwd with awd option
TRD/GR gets the 340-366hp 2.4 with direct 4?

Tho maybe Prius power train so it has more mpg than the Accord?

That's what I've wondered as well. The Camry clearly doesn't need more than 200hp; it has been selling well without 200+ hp for years. At what point does the M20 replace the A25 as the entry Camry powertrain? A PHEV Camry with Prius Prime drivetrain seems like a winner.

 

[mikeavelli]

That's what I've wondered as well. The Camry clearly doesn't need more than 200hp; it has been selling well without 200+ hp for years. At what point does the M20 replace the A25 as the entry Camry powertrain? A PHEV Camry with Prius Prime drivetrain seems like a winner.

The only thing that scares me is the accord makes a whopping 204hp and is hybrid only. I don’t think Toyota will follow suite. I hope not. Needs a GR or TRD to keep momentum going

 

[larryren]

That's what I've wondered as well. The Camry clearly doesn't need more than 200hp; it has been selling well without 200+ hp for years. At what point does the M20 replace the A25 as the entry Camry powertrain? A PHEV Camry with Prius Prime drivetrain seems like a winner.

From Chinese market view. I think using hi-output 2L hybrid system is good choice for entry-level Camry. Even we know BYD "Han"(汉) are threating Japanese trio in China such year, but still making little bit competitive for future.... A25 series I think can stay with the PHEV version. In addition, Toyota can also try 2.0T engine with THS. The actual effect has been confirmed by the joint-venture partner and there is no particularly large increase in fuel consumption.😋