2022 Mazda CX-60 PHEV

[carguy420]

Type-S is a complete joke. They market them as track oriented performance cars and they don’t even perform as good as a base model German car or suv.

To make matters worse. The MDX Type S is rated at 19 MPG. The LX 600 with 50+ more more hp and 900lbs heavier os rated at 19 MPG.

70k to be slowest around but you get giant exhaust pipes

Here we have Mazda with a RWD based plug in.

Also, Acura's marketing department keeps trying to make people think that their 3.0L turbo V6 is a brand new engine when it's actually just a modified version of Honda's J-series engine family, and that engine family in general is already more outdated and less advanced than Toyota's V6 GR engine family, yet they are still trying to milk something out of it, not much came out of it though🤣.

 

[mikeavelli]

Also, Acura's marketing department keeps trying to make people think that their 3.0L turbo V6 is a brand new engine when it's actually just a modified version of Honda's J-series engine family, and that engine family in general is already more outdated and less advanced than Toyota's V6 GR engine family, yet they are still trying to milk something out of it, not much came out of it though🤣.

Its maybe the worst engine created in this class ever. I’ve never seen twin scroll mentioned so much, it’s not a twin turbo. Track this blah blah blah, show the car drifting blah blah blah, try to compare it to S4 etc blah blah blah and it’s BY FAR the slowest with the worst MPG. Then they slap it in the 600 lbs heavier MDX.

To think Mazda has a Plug in hybrid before them. Mazda now has a case they build superior vehicles already.

 

[carguy420]

Its maybe the worst engine created in this class ever. I’ve never seen twin scroll mentioned so much, it’s not a twin turbo. Track this blah blah blah, show the car drifting blah blah blah, try to compare it to S4 etc blah blah blah and it’s BY FAR the slowest with the worst MPG. Then they slap it in the 600 lbs heavier MDX.

To think Mazda has a Plug in hybrid before them. Mazda now has a case they build superior vehicles already.

They keep talking about twin scroll turbo like it's a technology that has just been invented lmao, the turbo they are using it's not even a ball bearing turbo, just a regular old journal bearing turbo.

Honestly, I feel like Honda would be like a bigger Mazda if it was still managed in the same way as when Honda Soichiro was still the CEO of Honda.

 

[ssun30]

The Skyactiv-G 3.0 I6 will very likely be the least powerful in this class if Skyactiv-G 2.5 is any indication. But knowing Mazda's skill at powertrain calibration it's going to beat a lot of competition out there and class leading fuel economy.

 

[carguy420]

I wonder how their new 8 speed auto would be like, like @Sulu mentioned before it doesn't use a torque converter, it uses a multiplate clutch pack instead, it's similar in concept to the 9 speed auto found in some of Mercedes' AMG models.

 

[mediumhot]

Mazda has a year end of mar 31.

Mazda since 2017 has gone from 38 to 39% COGS.

They’ve gone from 1.96% operating margin to 0.15% in that time.
Toyotas operating margin went from 7.2% to 8.1%.

Their pre tax income has gone from 2% to 0%, and their net income has gone negative.
Toyotas pre tax net income margin went from 7.9% to 10.8%.

Their capital spending and R&D has gone up relative to their top line in that same time.
Cash flow from operations went from 2.5% to 2%.
Just eyeballing the last 9mo, Toyota has gone from 9% to 11% year over year.

I thought we could take a moment to appreciate why Toyota does what it does.
Because it works.

It works for Toyota but not so much for Lexus enthusiasts unfortunately. It's a great breakdown you presented us with but I also think it's a great argument why something Limitless should have been built in late '10s.

 

[mediumhot]

Not to go off topice here I have to say that CX-60 will be very pricey. I see it as XC60 competitor and it will probably end up being a better buy overall. UK pricing spread goes between £43,950 - £48,050 plus another £3,500 in available options. In Germany pricing spread is wider €47,390 - €58,890 plus insane €7,300 in option packages alone exlcuding premium color surcharge. Takumi trim is the one to go for really if you want premium.

As far as the competition goes in Germany Volvo XC60 Recharge starts at €64,300 while NX450+ starts at €59.950.
Fully loaded NX 450+ is €70K vs fully loaded CX-60 which tops out at €66K, now that is an interesting comparison. I find CX-60 better styled inside out, it's bigger, it probably rides a lot more sportier but NX has better driver and infotainment technology. NX is no joke in top trim when it comes to fancy new tech.

 

[CRSKTN]

It's a great breakdown you presented us with but I also think it's a great argument why something Limitless should have been built in late '10s

You’re going to need to explain this one to me.

 

[ssun30]

Of course it's going to be pricey. They aren't going to get any more favorable deals for those battery cells since Toyota/Honda buy much bigger volume.

 

[mikeavelli]

I just feel confidently price won’t matter, people pay anything for good CUVs or crappy ones.

 

[Sulu]

Of course it's going to be pricey. They aren't going to get any more favorable deals for those battery cells since Toyota/Honda buy much bigger volume.

You will also have to pay a premium for the engineering of the RWD platform, new inline-6 cylinder engines, new 8-speed transmission (and adaptation for the hybrid vehicles), and the new hybrid system. Because of Mazda's smaller size, fewer of these RWD vehicles will be sold (compared to a larger automaker) and the total engineering costs will be amortized over fewer vehicles.

These premiums could be reduced if Mazda shared engineering development costs with another automaker.

 

[carguy420]

I was thinking is there actually going to be a next generation Mazda 6? Mazda only mentioned about their CUVs, while all the talk about a RWD Mazda 6 so far are just rumours and speculation.

 

[Gor134]

I was thinking is there actually going to be a next generation Mazda 6? Mazda only mentioned about their CUVs, while all the talk about a RWD Mazda 6 so far are just rumours and speculation.

There's speculation the sedan was axed in favour of the crossovers, or put on hold to get the crossovers out first.

 

[Levi]

That would be terrible.

 

[Gor134]

I still think there will be a coupe, and am holding out for one

 

[mediumhot]

You’re going to need to explain this one to me.

Since Toyota is doing so good mixing up different flavors of vanilla they can take a risk to give us some whiskey prune flavor don't you think?

 

[mediumhot]

First drives of Audi Q4 etron just showed up. It starts at $61K which is most likely where CX-70 PHEV will top out fully loaded. That's another interesting comparison. Q4 has the same performance as CX-60 PHEV, has shorter wheelbase and overall length.

 

[Motor]

 

[ssun30]

A summary of BestCar's latest scoop on Mazda 6:

Development of Mazda 6 sedan and its coupe version has been suspended as there is doubt within Mazda whether the R&D cost of the new "Large Product Group" FR platform could be recovered.

Development of LPG started when sedan and coupe sales have not declined so much. But later Mazda realized the market space for a midsize sedan and coupe is now very limited, so the decision was made to prioritize SUVs.

There was always the talk about sharing LPG with Toyota/Lexus to achieve economy of scale. However this connection is now very weak ("the line is thin").

LPG is mainly an ICEV platform and conversion to BEV platform is possible but there are no plans for it. So now its future is uncertain. Mazda's vice president, who pushed the LPG development, resigned earlier this year due to unknown reasons. He was supposed to become Mazda's new president.

Mazda 6 will still arrive in the near future, but as a major refresh to the older FF generation. FR Sedan/coupe development will only resume if the four SUVs could prove economically feasible and after R&D cost of the platform is recovered.

My view is Mazda internally is conflicted about its future directions, and the LPG might be a strategic failure.

 

[mediumhot]

I just don't understand their idea to make four different vehicles instead of two. I just don't get it why you would do CX-60 and CX-70 unless the changes in production tooling are minimal