1st Generation Lexus RC 300, 350, F and Track Edition Megathread

[thtupid]

my issue with the track edition is the lack of "focus". I get it they want to have a car that is good for both on and off the track. But isn't that what the RC-F should be? I'd go so far to say that the RC-F should have all the upgrades made to the track edition (minus that hideous rear wing and put in something mechanical like the LF-A) and call that a day. For me (as a pure enthusiast with no mechanical knowledge whatsoever) the track edition should be extra hardcore. That means getting rid of a torque converter automatic and having a single or dual or manual clutch transmission, getting rid of the back seats, getting rid of some sound deadening, getting rid of some luxuries such as motorised seats (if there are any)...it should cut out at least 150kg. Not 65.

Now im not saying the track edition is not a great car. But I just see it as a missed opportunity. I also get that journos will forever bash the weight of the donor car (despite it being pretty much just as quick as a bog standard M3 around a track) and then bash something else when the weight is gone but that is beside the point. I believe a track edition should be hardcore.

I also find it odd that, as a brand building exercise (along with the pornographic drop top LC...that car is just OMG...), but no IS/GS replacement in sight! Surely they are not THAT expensive to develop...right? And surely they're not loss making investments? right? I mean i'd love to be well off enough for a LS and i'm sure there are people in this forum who are. But I am not. It doesn't mean I don't aspire to an IS right? If you think about it...(for Australia anyway), the closest thing to an IS for the "aspiring" individual looking at the Toyota/lexus range is a camry...kinda sad aint it?

anyway...off topic there.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Based on what is known so far

- 140 more horsepower/Much faster acceleration
- More luxurious/premium even the track edition with more exotic materials
- V8 high-revving sound/response
- Don't have to sacrifice practicality (even the track edition has the same backseats)

I can immediately debunk your first and your last points quick. I can sorta do the same with your second and third point. But your response is great!

I just thought of something smart recently. So everyone here in Lexus Enthusiast, think of it like this. This Supra that we all saw is like the BASE MkIV Supra (2JZ-GE which made 220 hp) has 340 (I honestly think this is underrated as hell or there is something odd going on) horsepower. Imagine if it had more power and torque like the Supra Turbo? That's what the GRMN/alpha/Motomachi car will be like. It will kick the RC F's ass. By the way, "much faster acceleration"? Come on bro they're exactly the same. Like exactly the same. The Supra is actually faster.

Now regarding it being more luxurious I cannot deny that whatsoever, but I don't even consider that because that's not what the Supra is trying to be. It is premium (because Supra) and it has plenty of exotic materials and high-level engineering (because race car).

I feel like I am one of the few in the world who LOVES six-cylinder engines. You have to be honest discussing sound isn't a really good metric in terms of performance and objectivity. The B58 and the future variations of the Supra are pretty damn responsive. I know subjective opinion is also big as well, but we're talking about competition here.

The Supra has a great boot. It is practical. Definitely not as practical as the RC F but what do you expect it is a much smaller car right?

- - - - - -

Do you see where I am coming from now? While your 2nd, 3rd and 4th arguments are very valid, in the grand scheme of sports cars, I personally don't feel that they're strong enough to say it is better than the Supra as a whole. However I must commend you, that was a good rebuttal.

I like friendly discussions so you may go on if you please.

 

[krew]

Damn. I love both versions but man the Track interior is awesome.

@krew, your original article from this morning said it has 72 hp.

LOL, fixed.

my issue with the track edition is the lack of "focus". I get it they want to have a car that is good for both on and off the track. But isn't that what the RC-F should be? I'd go so far to say that the RC-F should have all the upgrades made to the track edition (minus that hideous rear wing and put in something mechanical like the LF-A) and call that a day. For me (as a pure enthusiast with no mechanical knowledge whatsoever) the track edition should be extra hardcore. That means getting rid of a torque converter automatic and having a single or dual or manual clutch transmission, getting rid of the back seats, getting rid of some sound deadening, getting rid of some luxuries such as motorised seats (if there are any)...it should cut out at least 150kg. Not 65.

My thoughts echo this, in that I wonder if the Track Edition should have instead been a series of options to the standard RC F. Honestly, though, the market is likely higher for the full package rather than piecemeal upgrades.

I asked the RC F chief engineer if they had considered removing the back seats, and he explained that there was a specific weight reduction they were targeting as the optimal balance between performance and comfort -- that ended up being the 176lbs, no more no less.

 

[krew]

krew

Video: The Lexus RC F Track Edition

Ready to race.

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[Faisal Sheikh]

By the way, "much faster acceleration"? Come on bro they're exactly the same. Like exactly the same. The Supra is actually faster.

Your post is ridiculous. I own an RCF and know how quick it is relative to other cars. Your claim on the other hand, is based on what? What is the 0-150 mph.?Is it quicker than 24 seconds? 0 - 200 km/h better than 14.5 seconds? 1/4 mile time of a Supra? Is it better than 12.5 seconds? Does it trap 114 - 115 mph? You are basically saying, a car with E46 M3 power-to-weight ratio is quicker than a car with 8.5 lbs/HP. At higher speeds, it is all about raw horsepower, gearing and aero.

This video is an example of a fast, big and technical track where the RCF with Christian Menzel in both around the track hits 235 km/h VMAX while the M2 with 365 HP/3400 lbs hits 225 km/h VMAX

 

[Ian Schmidt]

I'm not sure the RC's back seats are practical in any form

In the Supra's favor, the driving dynamics of the BMW version have been universally praised, and you inherit all the BMW tweakability that they're known for (and that Toyota/Lexus isn't).

Both cars will have bystanders literally dropping whatever they're doing to take pictures!

 

[Faisal Sheikh]

They actually are. I have a baby seat in the back. Groceries and even adults of average size can fit in the back without much issues.

I'm not sure the RC's back seats are practical in any form

In the Supra's favor, the driving dynamics of the BMW version have been universally praised, and you inherit all the BMW tweakability that they're known for (and that Toyota/Lexus isn't).

Both cars will have bystanders literally dropping whatever they're doing to take pictures!

I'm not sure the RC's back seats are practical in any form

In the Supra's favor, the driving dynamics of the BMW version have been universally praised, and you inherit all the BMW tweakability that they're known for (and that Toyota/Lexus isn't).

Both cars will have bystanders literally dropping whatever they're doing to take pictures!

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Your post is ridiculous. I own an RCF and know how quick it is relative to other cars. Your claim on the other hand, is based on what? What is the 0-150 mph.?Is it quicker than 24 seconds? 0 - 200 km/h better than 14.5 seconds? 1/4 mile time of a Supra? Is it better than 12.5 seconds? Does it trap 114 - 115 mph? You are basically saying, a car with E46 M3 power-to-weight ratio is quicker than a car with 8.5 lbs/HP. At higher speeds, it is all about raw horsepower, gearing and aero.

This video is an example of a fast, big and technical track where the RCF with Christian Menzel in both around the track hits 235 km/h VMAX while the M2 with 365 HP/3400 lbs hits 225 km/h VMAX

I don't see why you have to get so worked up over this? I clearly asked you not to because I am trying to engage a friendly discussion based on facts. What you're mentioning above about speed times is something that the Supra hasn't been able to show us yet. It will hold it's own. I knew your bias would play a factor (and I cannot blame you whatsoever). The only argument that I can give you right now (not in a few years) is that it makes a lot of raw power helping its power to weight ratio. However we all know that aerodynamics is much more cohesive on the Supra (the engineers kept mentioning this) and the ZF auto has way faster gearing ratio (note I didn't say shift speeds) in other cars than the RC F's automatic. The biggest issue with the 8-speed (and even the 10-speed) is that the gearing ratios were always incorrect from the get-go, something that has been remedied with the Track Edition.

Everything that I am telling you right now is based on facts, on what has been said officially and performance measurements as well. I am not trying to induce an argument. We're a community and this isn't how we are conducting things. If you saw me being harsh before that is because it was at someone who is saying things just to get attention or they were throwing a personal jab.

I think it's better to say that we should wait. However I stand by my opinion that the Supra (and the GRMN/alpha car) will be a way more cohesive sports car. Because that's its purpose. To be a sports car. The RC F is an amazing GT like the M4/C63. The fact that a GT car will do a better job than a sports car is questionable in my humble opinion.

While the RC F in my opinion has a few demerits as an F car, there is no way I would take away the credit it deserves as a great luxury grand touring sports car. They're in completely different classes.

@mikeavelli and others said something very beautiful recently. Is that in such a crazy SUV market. In what is arguable one of the biggest shows in the world, all of Toyota/Lexus' reveals were all coupes. That's absolutely mind blowing.

That just goes for show how good they are as a company.

 

[Faisal Sheikh]

^^^

It is because you are so smitten by Supra that you are not willing to look at objective facts that don't favor your argument. I stated the factual advantages to which you made it a point to counter the 140 HP advantage.

Again, I am not going to waste my time because you clearly don't understand fast cars. I don't think you will find a car with that power-to-weight doing 0-150 mph in 24 seconds or quicker, which is why I used the example of M2. The fact that you somehow think gearing magically will overcome a huge power-to-weight ratio deficit, is ridiculous. That is not how gearing works. The M2 example illustrates a car with similar size and better power to weight ratio, being slower by 10 km/h on a fast technical track.

Supra stock out of the box will not be close to the RCF as I stated especially at high speeds. You can take it to the bank. I will be sure to check back with you. 0-60 mph? sure 1/4 mile? probably a few tenths off. over 100 mph? no way. This is coming from someone who owns a fast car.

 

[Gecko]

I think it's better to say that we should wait. However I stand by my opinion that the Supra (and the GRMN/alpha car) will be a way more cohesive sports car. Because that's its purpose. To be a sports car. The RC F is an amazing GT like the M4/C63. The fact that a GT car will do a better job than a sports car is questionable in my humble opinion.

Just to be clear, the 2020 Supra is a GT car - by Toyota's own admission.

Like its 1990s predecessor, the 2020 Supra will be equipped as a premium GT, with a deft balance of function and premium comfort and convenience features.

Source: Toyota Pressroom - A Legend Returns: 2020 Toyota Supra Makes World Debut

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

^^^

It is because you are so smitten by Supra that you are not willing to look at objective facts.

Again, I am not going to waste my time because you clearly don't understand fast cars. The fact that you somehow think gearing magically will overcome a huge power-to-weight ratio deficit, is ridiculous. That is not how gearing works. The M2 example illustrates a car with similar size and better power to weight ratio, being slower by 10 km/h on a fast technical track.

Supra stock out of the box will not be anywhere close to the RCF as I stated above at high speeds. You can take it to the bank. I will be sure to check back with you. 0-60 mph? sure 1/4 mile? probably a few tenths off? over 100 mph? no way. This is coming from someone who owns a fast car.

I'm just going to back off because clearly you are upset and I don't want it to be that way. I respect you, so I will say this. Don't assume things man, the fact that you're jumping to assumptions about somebody is definitely not cool and it is untrue as well. I'm not going to respond to the rest of your comment because you're trying to blow off a lot of steam.

I think I'll just back outta these forums for a while because I feel like I may be hurting someone. I did say to someone in pm (may or may not be a mod ) that I will be here for the long run and you know who you are. To that guy, I will be here for the long run. I feel like a hiatus should in place for me because my intention is to never hurt anybody here.

I cannot wait for the next chapter to experience amazing.


--------------------


@Gecko That's really odd because Akio and Tada keeps saying sports car? Perhaps a mishmash of things are going on then?

 

[Gecko]

Don't assume things man, the fact that you're jumping to assumptions about somebody is definitely not cool and it is untrue as well. I'm not going to respond to the rest of your comment because you're trying to blow off a lot of steam.

Reading through these posts, you are making a lot of assumptions about others and the lack of regard for facts is coming off as steam blowing indeed. Given the ability to stretch its legs, the 472hp RC F should walk away from a 335hp Supra. Will the Supra probably be faster 0-60 or 1/4 mile? Yes - welcome to turbocharging 101. But the RC F's horsepower advantage will trounce the Supra given the opportunity to get into the upper RPMs for an extended run.

All we have so far for the Supra is price, weight, horsepower, torque and 0-60. There is still a lot we don't know - including hypothetical GRMN Supras. What we have now are limited facts about the Supra and a good bit of factual data about the RC F because it's 4 years old. The good news is that this car should be out for media testing very soon, and on sale in something like 10 weeks, if what I hear is correct. We'll have more data very soon.

Again, let's dial back the personal jabs and assumptions. Last time I'd like to make that point.

 

[Faisal Sheikh]

Once the Supra has run quicker 0-60 mph in 4.2 seconds and 1/4 mile in 12.5@114 mph 0-200 km/h in 14.5 seconds then we can talk about it. The track edition will be quicker than these standard RCF numbers. Even the new standard RCF probably will run quicker due to better tires and shorter gearing.

Until then, itis about the RCF track edition. Let's keep it to that.

 

[mediumhot]

Supra will not have the interior experience of RC-F I can tell you that much. RC-F interior ambiance is the best in class, like you are sitting inside of a tank. Honestly the best thing about RC-F is the interior and how awesome it feels. Low seating position, thick door panels, proper arm rest position. It's one of those things you don't know you can experience unless you actually do.

 

[RAL]

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with emotions ... or more specifically, passion for one's opinion. What does cross the line is when you are disparaged for your opinion or the way you relay it disparages another. IMHO, mutual respect must underpin the back and forth.

 

[Faisal Sheikh]

My guess is, Lexus has eliminated the LSD version of the RCF and made the carbon fiber/TVD RCF the base model. I completely agree, if that is the case since RCF should never be driven without the TVD. It seems so integral to the driving experience where 'slalom' in city for best maneuverability and the 'track' mode for high speed agility through fast turns. It makes the car really neutrally balanced and responsive in turns that LSD does not do it justice as far as handling goes.

 

[Faisal Sheikh]

 

[joepac]

I like the RC-F. Thought about getting one a few years ago.

I'm waiting on the 4IS ISF though. (need a 4 door)

 

[arrow1982]

It will be 473 hp. 472 hp would be too little bump. They will not put engineering hours in an engine, that will be built like maybe five pieces a month, for a twelve month production run.

The car will be stripped of amenities, a little carbon fiber panels here and there and thats it. Still it will be hellishly fast!

I have to admit, i came quite close to the final value!!!!!!

 

[krew]

krew

Photo Gallery: Lexus RC F Track Edition in Matte Nebula Gray

Wicked.

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