2017 Cadillac XT5 (First Drive Pg 5)

[mmcartalk]

Good points, even if styling is about as subjective as it gets. And Mercedes as the supposedly conservative brand has (intentionally different, and to some eyes freaking weird) pushed styling limits with controversial products such as CLS, CLA, B, RL, E coupe, etc. I think MB is using their solid position of strength to launch riskier styling exercises, some of which I don't care for.

Part of that is probably the fact that, with the exception of the famous gull-wing SL roadsters of the 1950s and the four-rotor C-111 which never went into actual production, for decades, the brand was seen as stodgy, and lost sales to BMW and Audi. I agree with you that I don't care for some of the newer M-B styles either (especially the CLS and its Peek-a-Boo windows)......but there is little argument that they have helped sales.

 

[mmcartalk]

New pic has popped up - looks better from this angle for sure (IMO):

Agreed......it does look a little better from that angle. But it would look even better, IMO, if Cadillac had not used those boomerang-shaped running-lights on the edges of the front fenders....they make the front end look a little too busy.

 

[mmcartalk]

I miss the wreath. around the badge.....

So do I. I think the reason they changed it was to try and get people acclimatized to a new Cadillac image.

 

[IS-SV]

So do I. I think the reason they changed it was to try and get people acclimatized to a new Cadillac image.

Is there a "a new Cadillac image" people should be aware of? If so, they haven't been terribly effective at getting message out.

 

[mmcartalk]

Is there a "a new Cadillac image" people should be aware of? If so, they haven't been terribly effective at getting message out.

Well, you have often spoken about the gap yourself. I mean the traditional groups who drove the DeVille/DTS and Escalade vs. the somewhat younger, newer ones who buy the CTS, ATS, and the V-models (though some younger ones admittedly like the Escalade). Those in the newer group are generally not interested in the former....and vice-versa.

 

[IS-SV]

Well, you have often spoken about the gap yourself. I mean the traditional groups who drove the DeVille/DTS and Escalade vs. the somewhat younger, newer ones who buy the CTS, ATS, and the V-models. Those in the newer group are generally not interested in the former....and vice-versa.

You will find that I don't dwell on ageism with discussions of premium cars, although you often did. Succeeding in this business requires forward looking product strategies.

But yes, Cadillac knows better than to cater to dead (or soon to be) driver preferences, they made that adjustment over a decade ago. Since they seem to be stuck on artsyfartyandscience styling theme (and flat to declining sales), I still am not seeing "new image" unfolding.

 

[mmcartalk]

You will find that I don't dwell on ageism with discussions of premium cars, although you often did. Succeeding in this business requires forward looking product strategies.

Part of that, though (getting back to an earlier post) may have been the change in the Cadillac logo. Mike said he missed the old wreath and crest.....I do too, to an extent, just like I miss the old red/white/blue Buick shield instead of the newer all-chrome one (they still use the triple-color in China).

But yes, Cadillac knows better than to cater to dead (or soon to be) driver preferences, they made that adjustment over a decade ago.

I wouldn't say quite that long ago. True, the CTS came out in 2001...and the Catera (which, IMO was a poorly-built POS) some years before that, but the Grandpa/Grandma DTS held on until 2012. And, even then, they didn't replace it with a proper flagship.

Since they seem to be stuck on artsyfartyandscience styling theme (and flat to declining sales), I still am not seeing "new image" unfolding.

I think part of that, though, gets back to the thread topic..........the new SRX, and the upcoming new compact SUV late next year (whose designation we don't know yet).

I'm especially looking forward to seeing what the new compact SUV will be like. I know you don't particularly care for the small Lincoln MKS, but I definitely liked it, and it will be very interesting, IMO, to see how the new Caddy compares to both that and the Lexus NX.

 

[IS-SV]

I think part of that, though, gets back to the thread topic..........the new SRX, and the upcoming new compact SUV late next year (whose designation we don't know yet).

Yes more on topic (instead of talking about geezer-pleaser Caddy models of the past), this new SRX enters a lucrative vehicle class where Lexus has dominated, it will be an interesting test for a troubled division. Maybe a new image will develop later.

 

[mikeavelli]

Is there a "a new Cadillac image" people should be aware of? If so, they haven't been terribly effective at getting message out.

Yeah with the luxury market up and Caddy sales down they are missing the mark. I just don't see a huge market for small Cadillacs and we all know the CTS moving up a class with a higher price missed the mark. The Escalade sells as its a classic Cadillac in that is bold, big and big lol.

 

[IS-SV]

Yeah with the luxury market up and Caddy sales down they are missing the mark. I just don't see a huge market for small Cadillacs and we all know the CTS moving up a class with a higher price missed the mark. The Escalade sells as its a classic Cadillac in that is bold, big and big lol.

And as admirable as Escalade sales are in a unique niche market, creating so-so "mini-Escalades" is not necessarily the solution. And going jumbo my friends have selected Range Rover, G-wagon, Cayenne, Suburban for their big SUV hardware, certainly more tasteful.

 

[mmcartalk]

Yeah with the luxury market up and Caddy sales down they are missing the mark. I just don't see a huge market for small Cadillacs and we all know the CTS moving up a class with a higher price missed the mark. The Escalade sells as its a classic Cadillac in that is bold, big and big lol.

The XTS proved that there isn't necessarily a market for larger Cadllacs, either, if not done correctly. We'll have it wait and see how the CT-6 does. Already, there have been both good and bad comments about it.

 

[Gecko]

I read something today stating that with faltering CTS and ATS sales, SRX is currently Cadillac's best selling model. I didn't realize that initially. They better get this right!

 

[IS-SV]

The XTS proved that there isn't necessarily a market for larger Cadllacs, either, if not done correctly. We'll have it wait and see how the CT-6 does. Already, there have been both good and bad comments about it.

Good point, because sized cars in general (especially somewhat lower level including Caddy) are seeing sales declines.

The reality of market today is that those needing full size/space usually select mid/large crossover SUVs, not full sized cars.

 

[mmcartalk]

I read something today stating that with faltering CTS and ATS sales, SRX is currently Cadillac's best selling model. I didn't realize that initially. They better get this right!

Agreed.....but it's equally important with the SRX's new little brother late next year. That is what is going to go up against the Lincoln MKC and hot-selling Lexus NX.

In the meantime, though, you have a point. With a new mid-size Lexus RX and Lincoln MKX coming soon, Cadillac will indeed have to have a competitive SRX/XT-5.

 

[Och]

The XTS proved that there isn't necessarily a market for larger Cadllacs, either, if not done correctly. We'll have it wait and see how the CT-6 does. Already, there have been both good and bad comments about it.

If Cadillac doesn't get rid of their touch screen CUE system, which belongs in the last decade, their sales are only going to continue declining. That, and they need to hire someone who can design a decent looking steering wheel to replace the fugly abortions that they are using (this goes for all GMs), and they need to design a clean, classy looking center consoles to replace their ridiculous transformers like clusterplucks.

 

[Gecko]

This was a great article written when the CT6 came out. Uwe Ellinghaus outlines the Chevy components still in Cadillacs and discusses why they're there, and when that might change.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/cadill...more-interior-differentiation-own-switchgear/

 

[mmcartalk]

If Cadillac doesn't get rid of their touch screen CUE system, which belongs in the last decade, their sales are only going to continue declining. That, and they need to hire someone who can design a decent looking steering wheel to replace the fugly abortions that they are using (this goes for all GMs), and they need to design a clean, classy looking center consoles to replace their ridiculous transformers like clusterplucks.

I agree that CUE leaves a lot to be desired, but it is certainly not alone in that regard. Ford's MYTouch/SYNC has also been a source of many review and customer complaints (a new updated system to replace it is coming soon). And, although I can't speak for others in this regard, I personally have found the BMW I-Drive, Audi MMI, and Mercedes COMMAND systems difficult and confusing.

As far as the steering wheels go, given the fact that they have to house air bag systems and the many different buttons/controls on them for convenience and the things that consumers want (Bluetooth, stereo volume, cruise-control, voice-command functions, etc.....) the engineers and stylists who design them have to use large fat center-sections and spokes, with only a limited number of different styling options.

 

[mmcartalk]

This was a great article written when the CT6 came out. Uwe Ellinghaus outlines the Chevy components still in Cadillacs and discusses why they're there, and when that might change.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/cadill...more-interior-differentiation-own-switchgear/

An interesting article, yes, but one thing it fails to point out is that IMO Chevy switchgear itself has improved markedly in the last several years, especially in their smaller and entry-level products. The dreadful Cavalier, for example, was a car that used such cheap materials, inside and out, that I probably wouldn't have owned one if it was given to me. And, like my reply to Och just above about the CUE system, Cadillac is not alone in using some switchgear originating in cheaper vehicles. Lincolns, especially older ones, use a lot of Ford switchgear inside. Audis, despite their well-respected/well-crafted interiors, use some VW components. Mercedes and BMW, of course (now that M-B doesn't own Chrysler any more), don't have the cheaper sister-divisions to rob interior parts from, but they have had a tendency at times to use cheap thin black-plastic stalk-columns. Some M-B products also (annoyingly, IMO), place multiple stalks on the left side of the steering column, where they can be confused with the turn-signals (I've done that myself while test-driving some M-B products)

So.....I don't mean to rant on and on here LOL...but just want to point out that Cadillac doesn't do much inside that several of its own competitors also do so some extent.

 

[Gecko]

However, we're talking about Chevy parts compared to a Mercedes S Class (CT6's competitive set) and you have to keep that in perspective.

Chevy interiors were so bad for so long - and quite frankly, they still are probably bottom third in the market - that saying they have improved isn't really much of a qualifier. GM tends to use a basic, all caps, early 90-s looking font that's white and too small relative to the size of a button- on every button on an interior. Ford does the same thing. The Asians and Germans quite simply understand that these details matter. Make nice buttons for a Camry and you might be able to use some of them in an ES or RX. Chevy's buttons are ugly no matter what they're in, which just makes them even more out of line when stacked up against an A8 or S Class.

Same for instrument panels, switch gears, dials, etc. It's little details like these that really make the separate the men from the boys.

 

[Gecko]

This XT5 should be an easy hit for Cadillac. I really think it looks good - better than the first two generations for sure. Yes, it's a little tame looking but with the new RX and some others being so dramatic, there is a market for something more elegant and stately, like what we see here.

While CUE sucks and Cadillac interiors aren't class leading by any means, they've done a much better job with layouts, wood and leather - and those things are certainly important. They're getting better about the touch points for sure.

I assume this will still be FWD (based on Elipson?), as I don't think there's much need for an RX competitor to be RWD. Cadillac has proven that they've got chassis tuning and driving dynamics mastered, so even if it ends up FWD, I assume it will be pleasant to drive.

Cadillac has also done a good job with engines, and I assume we might see 2.0T and 3.6L options like in other Caddy products - both are solid engines.

While the smaller NX/X3 fighter will be a big priority, the "meat" of the market is still in this midsize segment, and Cadillac needs to get this right.