5th Generation (2018+) Lexus LS 500 & LS 500h Megathread
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Ian Schmidt
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I liked the review. But one of the commenters, who apparently works at a Caddy dealership, had some really good insight on the SUV/CUV craze and what's driving it:
My older clients that are coming in are no longer comfortable getting in and out of cars like the CT6. So they opt for the XT5 because it's easier on the knees getting in and out. The younger clients I have that would like the CT6, cannot afford it. Typically end up with an XT5 because it leases better than any of the sedans and is priced competitively with the ATS (which is a heck of a lot smaller). Sedans, even the Accord, are dying a slow death of residuals, ease of entry, and cost. And, whereas it used to be a substantial gas mileage penalty to go to the crossover or SUV, it really isn't any longer. At least not in the mid-to-high luxury level.
I know posters here have mentioned ease of entry into coupe-looking sedans as an issue, but it's nice to hear backup from someone at a dealership, albeit not a Lexus one.
My older clients that are coming in are no longer comfortable getting in and out of cars like the CT6. So they opt for the XT5 because it's easier on the knees getting in and out. The younger clients I have that would like the CT6, cannot afford it. Typically end up with an XT5 because it leases better than any of the sedans and is priced competitively with the ATS (which is a heck of a lot smaller). Sedans, even the Accord, are dying a slow death of residuals, ease of entry, and cost. And, whereas it used to be a substantial gas mileage penalty to go to the crossover or SUV, it really isn't any longer. At least not in the mid-to-high luxury level.
I know posters here have mentioned ease of entry into coupe-looking sedans as an issue, but it's nice to hear backup from someone at a dealership, albeit not a Lexus one.
mikeavelli
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Oh for sure, I just hit 40 and getting in and out the RC F or LC which are lowered even more is a chore now lol... the LX or RX are perfect as daily's....
These SUVs are basically raised cars. They ride as good now with just as good interiors. In the past cars were built better with more features. That is no longer the case.
I know you’re all going to hate me for saying this, but I do believe that all of the engines yet to come out will be complete duds.
Long-stroke, thermally-efficient engines suitable for anything BUT speed and performance. Mark my words. I say this based on past and current precedence.
They can spin it and overhype it all they want, but as soon as people actually drive whatever new engines come out, dissapointment will ensue.
Sorry, just being brutally honest. They will say this engine and car can perform like this and it will all be a lie.
Long-stroke, thermally-efficient engines suitable for anything BUT speed and performance. Mark my words. I say this based on past and current precedence.
They can spin it and overhype it all they want, but as soon as people actually drive whatever new engines come out, dissapointment will ensue.
Sorry, just being brutally honest. They will say this engine and car can perform like this and it will all be a lie.
I do not know many long-stroke Toyota engines. Even Toyota's diesel engines are too short stroke for the fuel. Long stroke is what makes the valve area smaller for a given capacity, so less efficient, lower piston speed so less performance.
@Ian Schmidt where are you buddy? need you in this discussion!
Gecko
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The most impressive Dynamic Force engine to me so far is the A25A-FKS. N/A 2.5L, over 200hp, torquey but willing to rev. I think the V35A-FTS could be a great engine also, but we need to see it in a lighter application to be sure.
Also, Moderator Note: @Berto3818, please feel free to edit earlier posts and add follow up thoughts into one post vs. parsing out multiple posts with extended thoughts. You have a tendency to post repeatedly with little tidbits of information or requests for other member's opinions and sometimes it's easier for all of us to read in one post vs. several
Also, Moderator Note: @Berto3818, please feel free to edit earlier posts and add follow up thoughts into one post vs. parsing out multiple posts with extended thoughts. You have a tendency to post repeatedly with little tidbits of information or requests for other member's opinions and sometimes it's easier for all of us to read in one post vs. several
No problem sir @Gecko my apologies. I'll consolidate it all. I just see a paridimg shift in the motors now since the new 5LS motor and the pending TTV8 that is to come out in the LC F and LS F. Does anyone think that the 5.0 liter is gone or will they make it better? I'm also hearing that the currently 3.5 liter in the 5LS could be turned into the TTV6 and that will go in all the hybrid cars. I don't think that Camry Hybrid should have made it in the 5LS but maybe they didn't have time to hybridize it??
R,
Markus
R,
Markus
The biggest problem with the V35A is that it is too big for its own good. It’s almost as big as a 4.0 liter V8 with none of the benefits. It’s a dumb size and goes back to their ancient 0.575 liter per cylinder design. It’s nearly as heavy as a 4 liter V8 with none of power, balance and smoothness. It's the perfect mechanical analogy of the LS 500 trying to emulate something it isn't in regards to the four-door coupe look. Fitting I guess.
But it was an easy design. No matter how “all-new” they say it is, they pulled the blueprints off the same GR and UR engines they’ve been carrying for decades and yes the 3.5 and 4.6 are semi-related in the same sense that the more modern 0.5 liter designs are between six and eight cylinders. Changing the bore and stroke and calling it all new is not very innovative.
You see you do get weight advantages by building everything around 0.5 liters per cylinder. The 6 pot is actually light and the 8 pot isn’t much heavier than Lexus’ V35A 6 pot. The worst of everything again.
peterharvey
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Just as Lexus midsize luxury has both FWD MacPherson strut ES [for the mass public, and mums & dads], and the RWD GS for enthusiasts, I think Lexus should also have a full size luxury car in two body styles:
(1) A FWD-based or RWD-based upright body style with a spacious interior like the old 4LS for the mass public, and mums & dads, with hi volume sales.
(2) Together with a sporty low center of gravity front mid-engined variation like the current 5LS as a halo model for enthusiasts, and niche volume sales.
In the same way, I think Lexus should have at least two engines:
(1) A bread and butter efficient 3.5 V6 TT like in the current 5LS targeted to the mass public and mums/dads with hi volume sales.
(2) A V8 TT as a halo model for enthusiasts like Rhambler with niche volume sales.
I also think that it may be important for Lexus to match the body style to the type of engine too.
Such that a tall upright sedan body style like the old 4LS would be matched to an efficient 3.5L V6 TT for hi volume sales.
While a low slung 5LS body style matched to a hi RPM performance engine with niche low volume sales.
Presently, Lexus confuses me somewhat with their No More Boring Cars formula.
We have a bread and butter hi volume ES, an efficient 3.5 V6 TT, but no bread and butter full size luxury upright sedan with a spacious interior and a deep trunk for volume sales?
The current 5LS may have mismatched a low volume sporty niche low slung body style, to a bread & butter 3.5 V6 TT which is supposed to sell in larger numbers; think of the 5LS as a low volume sporty niche body style - with an entry level 3.5L V6 TT - for now.
No more boring cars, yet 5LS only has a 3.5L V6 TT, and no V8 TT?
No more boring cars, yet the RWD-based 5GS and 4IS are to be axed?
However, we may simply be speculating too much.
Just as 5LS was delayed by 12 years in the US, 5GS and 4IS may have longer 8 year model cycles, with a 2020 release of 5GS and 2021 release of 4IS?
A V8 TT will come - given the time.
Such that the low volume sporty niche new low riding 5LS will get a truly matching sporty hi revving low volume V8 TT - in time.
Which only leaves missing a taller more upright & spacious full size luxury sedan version of 5LS to achieve greater sales volume, but its up to Lexus how they want to design the 5LS.
Like the S Class & AMG GT 4 Door Gran Coupe, Lexus may have to develop the 5LS is two (2) separate body styles too.
A conventional upright spacious sedan popular with the mass public, and a low slung 4 Door Gran Coupe for enthusiast niche low volume sales.
Another possibility is that the traditional tall upright spacious sedan is extinct!
In its place is a choice between a sporty dynamic low slung sedan like the current 5LS, or a full size luxury SUV tall wagen.
I hope they keep the conventional tall upright sedan.
In the same way, the Germans have 2 types of SUV's.
The traditional tall upright boxy spacious SUV, and the lower & swoopier SUV 4 Door Coupes like the GLC and GLE 4 Door Coupes...
(1) A FWD-based or RWD-based upright body style with a spacious interior like the old 4LS for the mass public, and mums & dads, with hi volume sales.
(2) Together with a sporty low center of gravity front mid-engined variation like the current 5LS as a halo model for enthusiasts, and niche volume sales.
In the same way, I think Lexus should have at least two engines:
(1) A bread and butter efficient 3.5 V6 TT like in the current 5LS targeted to the mass public and mums/dads with hi volume sales.
(2) A V8 TT as a halo model for enthusiasts like Rhambler with niche volume sales.
I also think that it may be important for Lexus to match the body style to the type of engine too.
Such that a tall upright sedan body style like the old 4LS would be matched to an efficient 3.5L V6 TT for hi volume sales.
While a low slung 5LS body style matched to a hi RPM performance engine with niche low volume sales.
Presently, Lexus confuses me somewhat with their No More Boring Cars formula.
We have a bread and butter hi volume ES, an efficient 3.5 V6 TT, but no bread and butter full size luxury upright sedan with a spacious interior and a deep trunk for volume sales?
The current 5LS may have mismatched a low volume sporty niche low slung body style, to a bread & butter 3.5 V6 TT which is supposed to sell in larger numbers; think of the 5LS as a low volume sporty niche body style - with an entry level 3.5L V6 TT - for now.
No more boring cars, yet 5LS only has a 3.5L V6 TT, and no V8 TT?
No more boring cars, yet the RWD-based 5GS and 4IS are to be axed?
However, we may simply be speculating too much.
Just as 5LS was delayed by 12 years in the US, 5GS and 4IS may have longer 8 year model cycles, with a 2020 release of 5GS and 2021 release of 4IS?
A V8 TT will come - given the time.
Such that the low volume sporty niche new low riding 5LS will get a truly matching sporty hi revving low volume V8 TT - in time.
Which only leaves missing a taller more upright & spacious full size luxury sedan version of 5LS to achieve greater sales volume, but its up to Lexus how they want to design the 5LS.
Like the S Class & AMG GT 4 Door Gran Coupe, Lexus may have to develop the 5LS is two (2) separate body styles too.
A conventional upright spacious sedan popular with the mass public, and a low slung 4 Door Gran Coupe for enthusiast niche low volume sales.
Another possibility is that the traditional tall upright spacious sedan is extinct!
In its place is a choice between a sporty dynamic low slung sedan like the current 5LS, or a full size luxury SUV tall wagen.
I hope they keep the conventional tall upright sedan.
In the same way, the Germans have 2 types of SUV's.
The traditional tall upright boxy spacious SUV, and the lower & swoopier SUV 4 Door Coupes like the GLC and GLE 4 Door Coupes...
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Evening fam!! Ok..
@Gecko first so I guess your whole rational for the 8 would be the size and the proportion of that 5Ls being it is so big and heavy. I can say that TTV6 does get up and go but your correct I believe when you say that the motor should be tested in s lighter application so we know that fill extent of the capabilities. Now from what I read it has bigger valve seats that are closer , turbo waste gates and it can generate more thermal energy.. but @Rhambler and you are saying the technology is old? I would have thought it was smaller that the 4.0..
I thought the 5LS is selling well though?? What about the drive modes??
@peterharvey are you saying it needs a new design to go with that motor?
I’m reading everything to make sure I get it.
R,
M
@Gecko first so I guess your whole rational for the 8 would be the size and the proportion of that 5Ls being it is so big and heavy. I can say that TTV6 does get up and go but your correct I believe when you say that the motor should be tested in s lighter application so we know that fill extent of the capabilities. Now from what I read it has bigger valve seats that are closer , turbo waste gates and it can generate more thermal energy.. but @Rhambler and you are saying the technology is old? I would have thought it was smaller that the 4.0..
I thought the 5LS is selling well though?? What about the drive modes??
@peterharvey are you saying it needs a new design to go with that motor?
I’m reading everything to make sure I get it.
R,
M
peterharvey
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There are people out there craving for a 5LS with a conventional taller upright and more spacious interior, and this would go well with a bread and butter 3.5 V6 TT motor - such a design would outsell the 25k that the S Class debut with only a few years ago.
However, even if Lexus did keep the 5LS's sporty low slung dynamic niche body style with a cosy interior - the 5LS could still sell reasonably well, with successful sales similar to the old 3GS in relative terms - if the 5LS has more inspired L-Finesse type rear quarter styling at its midlife update.
PS.
I mean, if the 5.5LS midlife update looks stylish in a similar way to the 7th generation ES, then I think the 5.5LS will sell like hot cakes...
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