The 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h: A Technical Review


Last week, Lexus Enthusiast Editor Kevin Watts traveled to Nashville to test drive the all-new 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h hybrid. Here is a full technical overview of the new sedan, Kevin’s personal impressions will be posted next week.

It’s nearly impossible to overstate the importance of the ES sedan to the Lexus lineup. The LS may be the flagship sedan, but the ES has been the brand’s mainstream workhorse from the very beginning, with 2.18 million global sales since 1989.

The DNA of the ES sedan has always been comfort, ride quality, and spaciousness — an accessible sedan built with everyday luxury in mind. With the introduction of the latest iteration, Lexus wants to bring the car to life, bringing a serious design upgrade and adding an interesting boost in performance with the very first ES F SPORT.

As we prepare to read first drive reviews from journalists around the world, let’s dig deep into the facts with an extensive technical overview of the seventh-generation Lexus ES.

Exterior Design


Designed in Japan, the central theme of the seventh-generation Lexus ES is Provocative Elegance — here’s the progression from early sketches to the final production model:

Lexus ES Early Design Sketch

Lexus ES Design Sketch

Lexus ES Production Model

In front, the standard ES 350 & ES 300h have a grille of vertical bars that echo the design of the Lexus spindle grille:

Lexus ES Front Grille

The side profile has a lower stance than the outgoing model, with a coupish angle similar to the LS flagship — Lexus calls this the “Human Centered Silhouette”:

Lexus ES Side Profile

We can rotate through the design of the ES, ES Hybrid, and ES F SPORT with this CGI video:

Platform

At the core of the seventh-generation ES sedan is the all-new GA-K platform:

Lexus ES GL-K Platform

Compared to the current model, the new ES is longer by 2.6-inches, lower by 0.2-inches, and wider by 1.8-inches. The wheelbase has been extended by 2.0-inches, with the tracks widened by 0.4-inches in the front and 1.5-inches in the rear:

Lexus ES Dimensions

Here’s a short video illustrating the differences in size between the new ES and the current model:

Aerodynamics

The front bumper has been shaped to allow air to pass along the sides of the vehicle, while the aero stabilizing fins in the door frame molding and rear combination lamps improve stability — combined with the rear spoiler, the new ES can achieve a 0.26 co-efficient of drag:

Lexus ES Aerodynamics

Lighting

The 2019 ES will come standard with bi-LED headlights with integrated LED daytime running lights:

Lexus ES Standard Headlights

Available triple-beam LED headlamps use three compact bi-LED units and an adaptive front-lighting system that angles the lights based on steering input. LED turn signals and side marker lamps are also part of the upgrade:

Lexus ES Triple Lamp Headlights

The full-LED rear combination lamps feature a three-dimensional layered L-shaped design:

Lexus ES Rear Combination Lamps

Panoramic Moonroof

A Panoramic Moonroof is an available upgrade, with a front glass panel that opens externally and slides to the rear:

Lexus ES Panoramic Moonroof

A mesh wind deflector reduces wind noise when the front panel is open, and power-retractable shades help diffuse sunlight inside the cabin.

Wheels

The standard ES will be available with three wheel designs, including an available 18-inch noise-reducing wheel that uses a hollow section in the rim to resonate with the air in the tires, causing friction and converting sound waves to heat:

Lexus ES Standard Wheels

Hands-Free Power Trunk

Trunk space has increased by 1.5 cubic feet in the new ES, for a total of 16.7 cubic feet in both the gas & hybrid models. An available hands-free power trunk can be opened and closed by kicking under the rear bumper while carrying the smart key:

Lexus ES Power Trunk

Exterior Colors

The ES 350 & ES 300h will be available in 10 different exterior colors:

Lexus ES Colors

They are, in order with their color codes: Eminent White (085), Silver Lining Metallic (1J4), Atomic Silver (1J7), Nebula Gray Pearl (1H9), Obsidian (212), Caviar (223), Nightfall Mica (8X5), Matador Red Mica (3R1), Sunlit Green (6X0), and Moonbeam Beige Metallic (4X8).

Interior Design


Lexus ES Interior Design

The ES interior is split into two distinct zones — the driver’s side (red) is centered on easy access to all functionality, while the passenger’s side (blue) is focused on comfort and much simpler in design:

Lexus ES Interior Zones

Seating

Like the LS flagship, the ES has a two-part seating design that aligns with the armrests:

Lexus ES Seating Design

With the lower vehicle profile, the seating position has been pushed down to improve driving visibility:

Standard are 8-way power front driver and passenger seats, with an available 10-way power driver’s seat that adds lumbar and cushion length adjustment. Rear passengers can expect 39.2-inches of legroom:

Lexus ES Rear Legroom

(Some markets outside of North America will get rear temperature controls along with adjustable seat backs — expect to hear more about that shortly.)

Steering Wheel

The 3-spoke steering wheel is shared with the new LS flagship, and like the LS, the optional heated steering wheel provides warmth to the entire rim. A steering touch sensor has also been integrated to accurately detect the driver’s grip while Lane Tracing Assist (LTA) is operating.

Lexus ES Steering Wheel

Interior Colors

There are three interior colors available with the ES 350 & ES 300h: Chateau, Flaxen, and Black. All three are offered in NuLuxe, leather (with the Luxury package), and semi-aniline leather (with the Ultra-Luxury package):

Lexus ES Chateau Interior

Lexus ES Flaxen Interior

Lexus ES Black Interior

Striated Black is the standard trim, with Linear Dark Mocha wood, Linear Espresso wood, and Matte Bamboo available as options:

Lexus ES Trim Options

Meters & Instrumentation

The standard instrument panel features a 7-inch TFT LCD screen in a circular surround, with an additional multi-information display to the left of the main speed/tachometer display. Optitron-type meters are used for the water temperature and fuel gauges:

Lexus ES Instrument Panel

Heads Up Display

An available 10.2-inch color Heads-Up Display (HUD) displays a range of information onto the bottom of the windshield glass, including road speed, engine speed (rpm), gear selection, local speed limit, and other data relevant to the driver.

Lexus ES Heads Up Display

The Thin Film Transistor (TFT) backlit optical lens has a maximum brightness of 13,000 candela per square meter, and projects the image a virtual 8.2-feet ahead of the windshield.

Infotainment

A 12.3-inch multimedia display will be standard on all ES models, with navigation-equipped models offering dynamic directions by combining the on-board point-of-interest database with off-board (cloud-based) data:

Lexus ES Navigation

Apple CarPlay will be offered for the first time in a Lexus vehicle, making it easy for users to interact with iPhone-supported apps through the multimedia display. CarPlay will be available on navigation-equipped vehicles at launch, with non-navigation-equipped vehicles getting the functionality after October 1st:

Lexus ES CarPlay

In addition to CarPlay, the ES will be the first Lexus model to offer in-car access to the Amazon Alexa voice service — here’s a video detailing the functionality:

(The service will be available on Android devices at launch, with iOS following later in the fall. Some Amazon Alexa features will require an ES equipped with the Navigation system and an active subscription to Lexus Enform. )

A Qi-compatible wireless smartphone charger is an available option:

Lexus ES Qi Charger

Climate Controls

The North America-spec ES will feature two-zone automatic climate control using toggle-switches in the upper dash:

Lexus ES Climate Control

Lexus Climate Concierge is available for the first time in the ES — when activated, the system combines seat heating, HVAC and steering wheel heating (if equipped) to achieve the driver’s selected temperature.

Lexus ES Climate Concierge

Interior Illumination

LEDs are used for all interior illumination, with special attention given to nighttime ambient lighting:

Lexus ES Interior Illumination

Sound Systems

An 8-channel 10-speaker Pioneer audio system with a 296 W amplifier is the standard kit:

Lexus ES Pioneer Sound System

The audio upgrade comes in the form of a 12-channel 17-speaker Mark Levinson surround sound system with a 1800 W digital amplifier:

Lexus ES Mark Levinson Sound System

ES 350 Powertrain


Under the hood of the 2019 ES 350 is a 2GR-FKS 3.5-liter Atkinson cycle V6 with intake VVT-iW and exhaust VVT-i, rated at 302 horsepower @ 6,600 rpm and 267 lb.ft. of torque @ 4,700 rpm:

Lexus ES 350 Engine Specs
The 0-60 time is an estimated 6.6 seconds, with an manufacturer-estimated fuel economy (US MPG, city/highway/combined) of 22/33/26 for the ES 350 and 22/31/25 for the ES 350 F SPORT when running the recommended 87 octane fuel.

The ES 350 V6 is paired with a Direct Shift-8AT automatic transmission with a newly developed torque converter and multi-plate lock up clutch that Lexus claims has “has the direct feel of a dual clutch design along with the off-the-line smoothness of a traditional torque converter automatic”:

Lexus ES Transmission

The 8-speed Direct Shift transmission has a wider range of ratios designed to return improved mileage and more responsive performance:

Lexus ES Gear Ratios

ES 300h Powertrain


The gasoline portion of the ES 300h is the new A25A-FXS 2.5-liter DOHC direct injection Atkinson cycle 4-cylinder with intake VVT-iW and exhaust VVT-i, an engine that was a WardsAuto 10 Best Engines winner in the Toyota Camry Hybrid. It’s rated at 176 horsepower @ 5,700 rpm, for a total of 215 horsepower when combined with the hybrid tech:

Lexus ES 300h Hybrid Engine

The manufacturer-estimated fuel economy (mpg, city/highway/combined) for the ES 300h is 44/45/44 mpg using the recommended 87 octane fuel. The hybrid system can now deactivate the gas engine at speeds up to 75 mph (120 km/h), up from the previous system that was limited to 47 mph (75 km/h).

By reducing the size of the control circuit board and developing a new power stack, Lexus engineers have made the ES 300h Power Control Unit (PCU) 9% smaller and 22% lighter than the previous model — this allows the PCU to be mounted immediately above the transaxle:

Lexus ES Hybrid Power Control Unit

An all-new hybrid transaxle switches from coaxial arrangement of MG1 (power generation) and MG2 (drive) to a multi-axial arrangement, reducing overall length by 30mm and overall weight by 15%. The improved design also benefits from a change to a parallel shaft gear in place of the conventional planetary gear:

Lexus ES Hybrid Transaxel

The size of the nickel-metal hydride battery has been reduced, allowing it to be placed under the rear seats instead of the trunk — this increases the ES 300h’s trunk space to match the gas-powered model, while optimizing weight distribution and lowering the vehicle center of gravity:

Lexus ES Hybrid Battery

Auto Glide Control

Engineers have added something called Auto Glide Control to the ES 300h ECO mode that can automatically decelerate at a level comparable to coasting in neutral — in effect, built-in hypermilling functionality:

Lexus ES Auto Glide

Suspension & Chassis


The ES uses a MacPherson strut front suspension and a multi-link rear suspension with integrated trailing arm, both using newly developed Dynamic Control Shocks:

Lexus ES Dynamic Control Shocks

Dynamic Control Shocks generate a damping force with a non-overlapping auxiliary valve that allows damper oil to flow in either direction before entering the main valve. This action can absorb the feedback from rougher roads and smooth out the overall ride.

A new 4-point engine mounting system has utilized, with front and rear mounts installed to a vibration-dampening sub-frame, while the right and left mounts are installed to side members:

Lexus ES Engine Mounts

Vacuum-controlled hydraulic engine mounts are used for the front and rear mounts on V6 models, which allows for variable dampening depending on driving conditions.

The new ES is approximately 137 pounds (62 kg) lighter than the current model due to the greater use of lightweight materials and thinner outer panels:

Lexus ES Lightweight

To improve rigidity, Lexus engineers included a closed cowl and suspension tower brace, a ring structure with a V-brace that reinforces the area behind the rear seats, and a spot welded gusset to join the roof crossmember and outer rail:

Lexus ES Rigidity

A total of 65 ft. (19.94m) of structural adhesive and 160 laser screw welds have been used throughout the new ES to improve overall rigidity:

Lexus ES Laser Screw & Adhesive

The interior and exterior of the floorboard has been coated with sound dampening materials, bringing the noise reduction up to 93% from the 75% rating of the previous generation:

Lexus ES Sound

The ES 300h hybrid gets additional padding at the firewall designed to absorb and reflect typical hybrid sounds:

Lexus ES 300h Padding

Included with the Ultra Luxury and F SPORT packages are performance dampers at the front and rear of the vehicle, which absorb energy from the chassis for improved handling stability and ride comfort while reducing noise from vibration:

Lexus ES Performance Dampers

Brakes

Every model shares the same standard 4-wheel disc brakes with ventilated front and solid rear discs, measuring as such:

  • Front: 12.01 inches (305mm) x 1.10 inches (28mm)
  • Rear: 11.06 inches (281mm) x 0.47 inches (12mm)

Safety


The ES will debut the new Lexus Safety System + 2.0, which borrows from the advanced technologies introduced with the LS flagship — here’s a comparison with the previous safety suite:

Lexus Safety System Plus 2.0

Many of these safety features have been covered in great detail previously, so let’s focus on newer technologies like Lane Trace Assist:

The Pre-Collision System now includes nighttime pedestrian and daytime bicyclist detection, and Road Sign Assist uses the front camera to detect road signs and display them on the multi-information display and Heads-Up Display:

Lexus ES Road Sign Assist

All-Speed Dynamic Radar Cruise Control

The ES now includes All-Speed Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC) that will maintain vehicle-to-vehicle distance all the way to a stop:

Lexus ES Dynamic Cruise Control

DRCC also includes a new feature called “blinker-linked” control — when following a vehicle traveling slower than the set speed, signaling a lane change will initiate acceleration to assist with passing. This kicks in at speeds of 70 km/h (44 mph) or greater, and will not activate if there is a car in the passing lane.

Panoramic View Monitor

Also available is the Panoramic View Monitor, which displays the ES surroundings on the multimedia display by using cameras installed the front, the left and right outer mirrors, and the rear:

Lexus ES Panoramic View Monitor

There are five different modes to choose from:

  • Panoramic and Wide Front View provides a 180-degree view ahead of the vehicle using the front camera.
  • Panoramic and Side Clearance View uses images from the front & side cameras to show the vehicle from above and behind.
  • Panoramic and Cornering View displays an image from the rear of the vehicle to assist while cornering.
  • See-Through View is a rotating eye-level view around the car, as if the ES was fully transparent.
  • Moving View displays a rotating bird’s eye image.

Finally for safety, there are 10 standard air bags inside the ES:

Lexus ES Air Bags

F SPORT Package


Starting with the exterior, the ES F SPORT features a mesh front grille with a black chrome surround:

Lexus ES F SPORT Front

The black chrome accents continue to the rear trunklid, which also includes a standard rear spoiler:

Lexus ES F SPORT Rear

The F SPORT package includes 19-inch cast alloy wheels with a 235/40R19 tire:

Lexus ES F SPORT Wheels

There will be eight color choices with the ES F SPORT:

Lexus ES F SPORT Colors

They are, in order with color codes: Ultra White (083), Silver Lining Metallic (1J4), Atomic Silver (1J7), Nebula Gray Pearl (1H9), Obsidian (212), Caviar (223), Ultrasonic Blue Mica 2.0 (8X1), and Matador Red Mica (3R1).

Adaptive Variable Suspension

Lexus has included an Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS) with the ES F SPORT package, which controls the damping force of the shock absorbers on all four wheels in response to driving operations and road surface conditions:

Lexus ES F SPORT Adaptive Variable Suspension

Interior Design

Inside, the ES F SPORT feature the same perforated leather steering wheel found in the LS F SPORT & LC coupe:

Lexus ES F SPORT Interior

The 8-inch TFT instrument cluster with movable ring is the same design shared with all Lexus F SPORT models:

Lexus ES F SPORT Gauge

The front seats in the ES F SPORT are inspired by the optional performance seats in the LC coupe:

Lexus ES F SPORT Seats

Unlike a traditional seat where a molded foam pad is covered with upholstery, the ES F SPORT seat shell is set into the mold and then filed with foam — this allows for a more aggressive design that provides better lateral support.

Interior Colors

For interior colors, there’s a choice between either Black or Circuit Red NuLuxe:

Lexus ES F SPORT Black NuLuxe

Lexus ES F SPORT Circuit Red NuLuxe

Also exclusive to the ES F SPORT is the Hadori aluminum trim, inspired by the polishing technique used on Japanese katana blades:

Lexus ES Hadori Trim

Lexus ES Hadori Closeup

Packages

There will be four packages available — Premium, Luxury, Ultra Luxury, and F SPORT:

Lexus ES Premium Package

Lexus ES Luxury Package

Lexus ES Ultra Luxury Package

Lexus ES F SPORT Package

Individual Options

• Wood-trimmed steering wheel • Heated wood-trimmed steering wheel • F SPORT steering wheel (F SPORT only) • F SPORT steering wheel with heating (F SPORT only) • Adaptive Variable Suspension (F SPORT only) • Wood interior trim • Panoramic sunroof • Hands free power trunk lid • Triple beam LED headlights with Adaptive Front lighting System (AFS) • Power rear sunshade • Head Up Display • Mark Levinson audio • Navigation (12.3-inch display) • Navigation + Mark Levinson audio • Qi wireless charging pad • Blind spot monitor • Park assist sonar • Park assist sonar with pedestrian detection and panoramic view monitor • 18-inch wheels with machine finish • 18-inch noise reduction wheels with hyper chrome finish

FeaturesLexus ES: Sixth Generation
Comments
Well, AWD is rumored to come... I was just point how all these people who want AWD on the internet, in the end very few will buy AWD version.

But with worldwide models, AWD is more important now for ES. Not just snowy areas of USA but also Japanese love their AWDs.
Sakura
A RWD owner wouldn't substitute having RWD for AWD.

An AWD SUV will make more sense too because it has more clearance.
There is a difference between F4-T (FWD-based AWD) and F4-L (RWD-based AWD), where the buyer of the later won't substitute for the former. And no buyer complains about the new E AMG or new M5 being AWD only. It is likely, should there be a hypothetical GS-F with turbo V8, it will not sell because of the lack of AWD. If cars sell thanks to Marketing, RWD is so yesterday. Anyone not interested in AWD, will not care if it is FWD. Proof by case is the BMW X1, that never sold as well.

As for SUVs, unfortunately they do not have significantly more clearance.
L
Krew just out of curiosity does Lexus ever make feedback driven changes between the time the media drives the vehicles and production? Im talking most about the downshifting delay on the 8 speed transmission which every single reviewer to date has pointed out as a major buzzkill. I understand no major transmission changes would probably be made but one or two reviewers said this could be corrected with a software update. Any thoughts?
lsu5508
Krew just out of curiosity does Lexus ever make feedback driven changes between the time the media drives the vehicles and production? Im talking most about the downshifting delay on the 8 speed transmission which every single reviewer to date has pointed out as a major buzzkill. I understand no major transmission changes would probably be made but one or two reviewers said this could be corrected with a software update. Any thoughts?
I can answer with confidence that this is a no, unless the downshifting issue is a pre-production flaw.
Transmission integration is actually very complicated because it affects the ride quality, fuel consumption, and emissions a lot. It will not be as simple as changing some code in the ECU. Will a quicker dowshift cause more jerky ride? Will the accelerated rev change impact the chemical composition of the exhaust? In the case of turbocharged engines, will it increase stress on the turbocharger? The drivetrain engineer will have to make sure these areas are not affected.
It's not changing the software that is time-consuming. It's the validation.

Or this could be a non-issue at all, since their transmissions are known to learn the driving style of the owner over time. Maybe the press just doesn't have enough time to have the transmission adapt to more aggressive driving.
Someone made a good point that Lexus sells a ton of these FWD only. That said if they are going to move the ES over to the sportier spectrum there is going to be a desire for more than FWD. AWD is obviously mostly sold in the NE, PNW and Central area....the biggest sales areas are the South Florida and Southern Cali regions ....

I do believe the take rate on the AWD Acura TLX is around 15% as a comparison.
One reason why manuals can be better. Automatic (CVT) is better suited to hybrids and electrics.
lsu5508
Krew just out of curiosity does Lexus ever make feedback driven changes between the time the media drives the vehicles and production? Im talking most about the downshifting delay on the 8 speed transmission which every single reviewer to date has pointed out as a major buzzkill. I understand no major transmission changes would probably be made but one or two reviewers said this could be corrected with a software update. Any thoughts?
The Camry V6 launched with a few complaints about the shift logic, and I'm sure the ES uses the exact same transmission. There have since been 2 TSiBs for the fix and Camry owners are quite happy now. I assume the ES should be good to go for production - maybe these were early prototypes that had not been reflashed for press drives (unfortunately).
Gecko
The Camry V6 launched with a few complaints about the shift logic, and I'm sure the ES uses the exact same transmission. There have since been 2 TSiBs for the fix and Camry owners are quite happy now. I assume the ES should be good to go for production - maybe these were early prototypes that had not been reflashed for press drives (unfortunately).
good to know, thanks for the info.
Lexus has really nailed the design here. The last generation I was a fan A pillar back intially and more so after the MMC. Nothing awkward about the front here.
S
ssun30
1) First point is false. The hump is much more pronounced than a regular exhaust hump. The height is what you'd expect from a RWD or AWD car. If they didn't prepare it for the axle then they are just wasting valuable leg room in the rear.
Well - I haven't step inside the Lexus ES yet. But from pictures - the hump size is similar to those of the Acura 1G/2G TSX and 3G TL, which never offered AWD.

Secondly - all this talk about the future process of the ES is tiring. We are all speculating on a car that isn't even on sale yet. That's where I'll agree with you - lets wait and see. No one knows if the car is going to have AWD or Turbo.

Side note - I'm not saying the car isn't going to go Turbo. I'm saying it won't go Turbo in 1-3 years like some people here are alluding to. 1-3 years to switch out an engine is ridiculously bad business.

ssun30
It has nothing to do with the core image of the car, or trying to favor the enthusiasts for that matter (seriously, what kind of enthusiast would choose a turbo 4 vs. a naturally aspirated V6?).
The Lexus ES has a core image. Its design to be a Lexus ES. I think we tend to forget the Lexus ES is designed as a non-enthusiasts type vehicle.

What kind of enthusiasts would choose a Inline 4 Turbo over N/A V6? Tons would. This is why the STi and EVO sells so well. This is why the Civic Type R sells over sticker and people demanded it in the USA. This is why the S12, S13, S14 and S15 are so popular.

To restrict being a car enthusiasts to V6 and above is merely false.
But car enthusiasts are the one percenters among car users.
S
Levi
But car enthusiasts are the one percenters among car users.
Yeah. Car enthusiasts is a small percentage of people.

That's why I was saying the Lexus ES doesn't appeal to them. Its one of the reasons, I think, the Lexus ES won't get AWD. How much profit will Toyota really get from introducing a AWD Lexus ES? Enthusiasts will welcome it, like myself, but I would never buy one still.

The Lexus ES is made to cater to the masses - thus why I think the Lexus ES will stay relatively vanilla so Toyota can keep their cash-cow.
Sakura
Yeah. Car enthusiasts is a small percentage of people.

That's why I was saying the Lexus ES doesn't appeal to them. Its one of the reasons, I think, the Lexus ES won't get AWD. How much profit will Toyota really get from introducing a AWD Lexus ES? Enthusiasts will welcome it, like myself, but I would never buy one still.

The Lexus ES is made to cater to the masses - thus why I think the Lexus ES will stay relatively vanilla so Toyota can keep their cash-cow.
Why wouldnt ES appeal to car enthusiasts?

And there are plenty of RWD cars with high performance, they dont need AWD, and with AWD you will lose a lot of that feel that makes RWD special. But hey, I guess they will be able to stomp the gas pedal to merge into the highway fast.
Sakura
Yeah. Car enthusiasts is a small percentage of people.

That's why I was saying the Lexus ES doesn't appeal to them. Its one of the reasons, I think, the Lexus ES won't get AWD. How much profit will Toyota really get from introducing a AWD Lexus ES? Enthusiasts will welcome it, like myself, but I would never buy one still.

The Lexus ES is made to cater to the masses - thus why I think the Lexus ES will stay relatively vanilla so Toyota can keep their cash-cow.
As car enthusiasts are a small percentage, not much is lost by not targeting them, however they can be very profitable in terms of margin.

As for AWD, I disagree, it is nothing for enthusiasts. It is on the contrary for the masses that it appeals. There have never been so many AWD cars, AWD is sold as a security measure and for driver's confidence.

spwolf
And there are plenty of RWD cars with high performance, they dont need AWD, and with AWD you will lose a lot of that feel that makes RWD special. But hey, I guess they will be able to stomp the gas pedal to merge into the highway fast.
Does the new M5 need AWD? No, but it has it. Has it lost the feel that makes RWD special? No, the previous RWD M5 already did not feel special.
Levi
As for AWD, I disagree, it is nothing for enthusiasts. It is on the contrary for the masses that it appeals. There have never been so many AWD cars, AWD is sold as a security measure and for driver's confidence.
Audi's always marketed AWD as an enthusiast thing, and good AWD systems can improve handling.
Ian Schmidt
Audi's always marketed AWD as an enthusiast thing, and good AWD systems can improve handling.
well Audi did that because most of their vehicles are FWD platform and are offered in FWD.
50k a year is about 4,200 a month. That seems pretty conservative to me, as the current ES has sold above those numbers. Lexus must be predicting further decline in the sedan market.
lsu5508
Krew just out of curiosity does Lexus ever make feedback driven changes between the time the media drives the vehicles and production? Im talking most about the downshifting delay on the 8 speed transmission which every single reviewer to date has pointed out as a major buzzkill. I understand no major transmission changes would probably be made but one or two reviewers said this could be corrected with a software update. Any thoughts?
ssun30
I can answer with confidence that this is a no, unless the downshifting issue is a pre-production flaw.
Gecko
The Camry V6 launched with a few complaints about the shift logic, and I'm sure the ES uses the exact same transmission. There have since been 2 TSiBs for the fix and Camry owners are quite happy now. I assume the ES should be good to go for production - maybe these were early prototypes that had not been reflashed for press drives (unfortunately).
These pre-production units that are driven during the press previews are not perfect, and it's possibly a flaw with these specific transmissions. However, it's also possible that the AI-shift software that learns driver preference is skewed by a couple weeks of auto journalists revving to the redline. This has been something I've noticed in the past.

Then, as @Gecko says, perhaps this is something that will reach production and be resolved with a later mapping flash.
S
spwolf
Why wouldnt ES appeal to car enthusiasts?

And there are plenty of RWD cars with high performance, they dont need AWD, and with AWD you will lose a lot of that feel that makes RWD special. But hey, I guess they will be able to stomp the gas pedal to merge into the highway fast.
Why wouldn't the ES appeal to car enthusiasts?
You really think the ES screams car enthusiasts? The Lexus ES target demographic is a male of 50 years of age or older. The Lexus ES was specifically designed to be not a car enthusiasts car. It was never suppose to be one - that's why it never appeals to car enthusiasts.

The following is my personal opinion of why I wouldn't the Lexus ES as a car enthusiast:
1) FWD
2) Even if its AWD, its transverse layout FWD/AWD set up.
3) MacPherson Suspensions (cheap)
4) It doesn't handle well
5) Its not "nimble" - won't be fun on the edge or on the hills.
6) There will be torque-steer.
7) There will be horrible wheel-spin.
8) Its a Camry/Avalon re-skin. Its literally badge-engineering. Horrible to pay 50K for that.

Bonus one - this is just a pet peeve of mine: Its made in America next to the Camry/Avalon.
S
Levi
Does the new M5 need AWD? No, but it has it. Has it lost the feel that makes RWD special? No, the previous RWD M5 already did not feel special.
Yes. The new M5 does need AWD. It produces too much power not to have it. If the M5 today was RWD only, it'll never be able to put down the power.

RWD feels special in the way it drives. RWD feels special in some cars because some cars are tail-happy.

You can never compare the modern new cars to the OG way of RWD, Front Engine and Manual.
mikeavelli
Someone made a good point that Lexus sells a ton of these FWD only. That said if they are going to move the ES over to the sportier spectrum there is going to be a desire for more than FWD. AWD is obviously mostly sold in the NE, PNW and Central area....the biggest sales areas are the South Florida and Southern Cali regions ....

I do believe the take rate on the AWD Acura TLX is around 15% as a comparison.
Sakura
That's why I was saying the Lexus ES doesn't appeal to them. Its one of the reasons, I think, the Lexus ES won't get AWD. How much profit will Toyota really get from introducing a AWD Lexus ES? Enthusiasts will welcome it, like myself, but I would never buy one still.
One point missing here is that the ES is now a global vehicle, and there are multiple regions around the world where AWD is a very big deal (like up here in Canada and many countries in Europe). If the ES is to replace the GS effectively, it needs to have power to all four wheels both for performance and positioning.

Sakura
The Lexus ES is made to cater to the masses - thus why I think the Lexus ES will stay relatively vanilla so Toyota can keep their cash-cow.
I don't want to hype up the ES F SPORT as this grand performance car, but it's serviceable when looking for an engaging drive -- I think most people on this site will be pleasantly surprised by its ability. And as the person that started Lexus Enthusiast, I would buy an ES F SPORT in a second. :D
spwolf
3) MacPherson Suspensions (cheap)
And yet Porsche 718 and 911 get away with this.
krew
One point missing here is that the ES is now a global vehicle, and there are multiple regions around the world where AWD is a very big deal (like up here in Canada and many countries in Europe). If the ES is to replace the GS effectively, it needs to have power to all four wheels both for performance and positioning.
Right. Lexus dealers here in Maryland don't stock RWD cars for the most part, everything on the lot is FWD or AWD. And our winters are pretty mild usually compared to what you'd see in Boston or Toronto.
S
krew
One point missing here is that the ES is now a global vehicle, and there are multiple regions around the world where AWD is a very big deal (like up here in Canada and many countries in Europe). If the ES is to replace the GS effectively, it needs to have power to all four wheels both for performance and positioning.

I don't want to hype up the ES F SPORT as this grand performance car, but it's serviceable when looking for an engaging drive -- I think most people on this site will be pleasantly surprised by its ability. And as the person that started Lexus Enthusiast, I would buy an ES F SPORT in a second. :D
True. The Lexus GS is now a global vehicle. But I was more speaking in the context of the US-Market. The US-Market doesn't seem to demand the AWD system and statistics show the take-rate for AWD is low in America as well. I just question how Toyota will profit from introducing AWD ES to the US Market during a time of SUV craze and down-ward sedan trends. I feel like the Lexus ES AWD will get passed up by AWD SUVs in areas where AWD is needed.

In my opinion - the Lexus ES will never replace the GS. Not even with AWD.
Its true. The Lexus ES will be able to put down more power with the extra grip but I would hardly call it performance. If anything, a more powerful ES with a AWD will be a niche sell at best. Majority of core ES buyers won't even consider AWD or more power. Soyfan from Redline stated and I'm summarizing what hes saying here: majority of ES owners won't even floor it to a point where AWD is needed.

Toyota is a heavy business car company. They won't make something unless it draws net profit for share-holders. This is why I think if Toyota can get away without offering AWD, they would.
S
Levi
And yet Porsche 718 and 911 get away with this.
True. The Porsche 718 and 911 offer MacPherson struts. I don't like it that it does either. However - the Porsche 718/911 is built differently. Its built so that the disadvantages of the MacPherson doesn't really affect it. We can't say the same about the Lexus ES - you still feel the disadvantages of the MacPherson.

Its how some people say "FWD doesn't stuck at handling because of the Civic Type R." Well - the Type R is built differently compared to other FWD cars.

In your example of the Porsche - we are comparing Apple to Oranges.
Sakura
True. The Porsche 718 and 911 offer MacPherson struts. I don't like it that it does either. However - the Porsche 718/911 is built differently. Its built so that the disadvantages of the MacPherson doesn't really affect it. We can't say the same about the Lexus ES - you still feel the disadvantages of the MacPherson.

Its how some people say "FWD doesn't stuck at handling because of the Civic Type R." Well - the Type R is built differently compared to other FWD cars.

In your example of the Porsche - we are comparing Apple to Oranges.
Porsche's could have twigs for a suspension and they likely would still be considered one of the best driving cars around lol.
mikeavelli
Porsche's could have twigs for a suspension and they likely would still be considered one of the best driving cars around lol.
Run of the mill Porsches are way overrated. Are they cool cars to own? Yes. Are they cool cars to drive? Yes. Are they anything more special in driving experience than other small sports cars? Not really. To this day original Boxster remains the crappiest two seater I've ever driven.

I'm not sure why people expect from ES to be anything more than ES that has always been. Sure all those GS replacements cancelation rumors have put the new ES in a though spot but it's still your grandpa's favorite land yacht.
Porsche uses struts for better packaging. There's not enough weight in the front to justify a more complex layout. They still make expensive struts out of forged alloy so they are not cheaping out.
It's hard to define what car enthusiasts are. So it can be said that the M5 is not an enthusiast's car. Most of its buyers are similar to the regular luxury buyer, namely successful family in their 50s, but with more budget to spare and more risk taking personalities.

S