Rendered: The Production Lexus LF-1 Limitless Crossover

Posted by Kevin on May 17th, 2018

What will the Lexus LF-1 Limitless concept look like as a production model? Japanese magazine Best Car has published their best guess from both the front and rear:

Lexus LF-1 Production LQ

Beyond the renderings, Best Car reports the production model will maintain the concept’s design with minor size changes:

The concept of LF-1 Limitless was full length 5014 × full width 1986 × total height 1605 mm, with a wheelbase of 2974 mm. The commercial model is full length 5005 × full width 1980 × total height 1595 mm, wheel base 2990 mm.

The production LF-1 (which could be named the LQ) will likely share the same engines as the LS 500 & LS 500h, though Best Car also mentions a high-performance variant powered by the endlessly rumored twin-turbo V8 putting out over 600 horsepower. The magazine also estimates a 2021 release date.

(Thanks spwolf!)

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Comments
Joaquin Ruhi
ssun30
Can we roughly estimate when they are going to release the LQ if they register the trademark? What is their typical lead time?
I think an optimistic estimate would be production concept in 19H2, launch in 20H1, and availability in 20H2.
That sounds about right. As I mentioned in passing in my Kaizen Factor story, Lexus registered the trio of UX trademarks in late February 2016. Two of them were unveiled as production vehicles 2 years later (at the late February 2018 Geneva Motor Show) and are expected to go on sale in the late 3rd quarter or 4th quarter of 2018, depending on market.
OlFius
There's an EQ family coming from Merc.
The name EQ stands for “Electric Intelligence” and is derived from the M-B brand values of “Emotion and Intelligence”
mikeavelli
I don't love it but I don't hate it. Honestly call it BLT just bring it... if this is a higher raised LC it will be a dream....
Ian Schmidt
Gecko
"LT" made more sense to me because Lexus already has some stake in that line with the CT.
To me LQ sounds vaguely Infiniti and LT sounds like GM (since it's a Chevy trim level). But let's just see the thing :)
S
ssun30
Can we roughly estimate when they are going to release the LQ if they register the trademark? What is their typical lead time?
I think an optimistic estimate would be production concept in 19H2, launch in 20H1, and availability in 20H2.
@Carmaker1 might help with that.

p.s. if this is another L, does that mean $85k starting price?
Lexus Cohen
I don't care if it's called "Lima Quebec", "Lazy Queen" or "Last Quarter", just the mere fact that Lexus will be launching a new flagship brings excitement to me!
L
Lexus Cohen
I don't care if it's called "Lima Quebec", "Lazy Queen" or "Last Quarter", just the mere fact that Lexus will be launching a new flagship brings excitement to me!
Even 'Low Quality'? :grinning:
Lexus Cohen
Levi
Even 'Low Quality'? :grinning:
Lol
GTG
It’s good to know that this is actually happening, The LQ will make more sales than the GLE and the X6 combined , just can’t wait to see a prototype that looks the same as the concept
S
GTG
It’s good to know that this is actually happening, The LQ will make more sales than the GLE and the X6 combined , just can’t wait to see a prototype that looks the same as the concept
well keep in mind that LQ should be L-flagship... so it will cost more than X6 and GLE. X6 starts at $62k, LQ should be $20k more.
M
Quintessence? Wow they went too hard on this one. What was wrong with LF1 in the first place? I doubt this will have more than two engines in so branding it as LF1 and LF1h is common sense. If they ever come out with F variant just name it LF1-F. Even LFX is not a bad idea cause it ties in with LX.

LQ is so generic for a flagship. LS makes sense since is the original. LC is a wrong nameplate as well, I would have preferred SC since it's another original but LFC would have been better choice than plain LC.

Here is a little secret when it comes to design principles which can easily be applied to nomenclature as well. You always do things in odd numbers. 1 piece and 3 pieces are always stronger than 2 or 4 pieces together. Like Lexus Premium LED headlights, what makes them ooze flavor is the odd arrangement of light beams. When it comes to abstract model naming like premium cars are named single character or three characters always sound and look better than two. In Lexus case they do add 3 numbers to determine power unit and price positioning in the line up so it ends up as odd number of mixed characters.

But honestly if it was up to me I would name cars with actual words cause random numbers and letters are so dull and played out. Nothing sounds better than Legend, no amount of S, L, X, Q and other characters combinations can come close to it.
GTG
spwolf
well keep in mind that LQ should be L-flagship... so it will cost more than X6 and GLE. X6 starts at $62k, LQ should be $20k more.
Oh !! My mistake , GLE AMG 100,00 and something and X6M 103.000 the LQ wIll sell more than them even at 80 to 90 thousands fully loaded . It already will have more trunk space and reliability .
mikeavelli
mediumhot
LQ is so generic for a flagship. LS makes sense since is the original. LC is a wrong nameplate as well, I would have preferred SC since it's another original but LFC would have been better choice than plain LC.

.
All the Flagships will have L to begin, thus LC instead of SC. It would be great to see another coupe called the SC return!
krew
Lexus Cohen
I don't care if it's called "Lima Quebec", "Lazy Queen" or "Last Quarter", just the mere fact that Lexus will be launching a new flagship brings excitement to me!
Levi
Even 'Low Quality'? :grinning:
:skull:
Tragic Bronson
Lexus marketing is watching a lot of commercials..
Trexus
F1 Silver Arrows
Why do I have a gut feeling that this car will further launch more models down the line having the Q designation...... Oh right. See BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Audi.

For those who didn't read the article yet or simply didn't get what I mean, I have a feeling that we're starting to get crossover coupes from Lexus. Starting from the top, then the midsize and the compact class. They're witnessing the amount of success the GLC Coupe/GLE Coupe/X6 are getting, and I am thinking that Lexus want's a piece of that lucrative market.
LQ (Flagship crossover coupe), compete with X6
GQ (Mid-level crossover coupe), compete with X4
IQ (Entry-Level crossover coupe), compete with X2
Trexus
mikeavelli
All the Flagships will have L to begin, thus LC instead of SC. It would be great to see another coupe called the SC return!
Totally agree. Bring it on Lexus...

LC (Flagship coupe), compete with 8 Series
SC (Mid-Level coupe), compete with 6 Series
RC (Entry-Level coupe), compete with 4 Series
F1 Silver Arrows
Trexus
LQ (Flagship crossover coupe), compete with X6
GQ (Mid-level crossover coupe), compete with X4
IQ (Entry-Level crossover coupe), compete with X2
You're also forgetting the model that would probably be the future perennial bestseller for Lexus, the RQ. It would also be a mid-level crossover coupe. I feel both RQ and GQ would have a place in the SUV market, especially how Lexus SUV's are the most popular in the market. Excellent conclusions however, because that's what I've been thinking.

However, the GQ and RQ would compete with the X6, the IQ competing with the X4 and the LQ (which we believe is the LF-1) fighting the future X7. Remember, they don't have a LX/Geländewagen competitor. So the LQ would fight the X7. Generally the right idea, but move their competitors higher. What's ironic is that in terms of price points I think your list is actually correct, given Lexus undercutting its competitors by a good margin.

Trexus
Totally agree. Bring it on Lexus...

LC (Flagship coupe), compete with 8 Series
SC (Mid-Level coupe), compete with 6 Series
RC (Entry-Level coupe), compete with 4 Series
Don't forget the convertibles too! And oh oh! The F models! :)
Joaquin Ruhi
Trexus
LQ (Flagship crossover coupe), compete with X6
GQ (Mid-level crossover coupe), compete with X4
IQ (Entry-Level crossover coupe), compete with X2
Umm... I don't think they'll be calling the small one IQ. That badge is too closely associated with Toyota's space efficiency-pioneering "Smarter, Minier" city car. Change the nomenclature to RQ for the mid-level and NQ for the entry-level and you're good to go.
S
Trexus
LQ (Flagship crossover coupe), compete with X6
GQ (Mid-level crossover coupe), compete with X4
IQ (Entry-Level crossover coupe), compete with X2
Once again, LQ will not compete with X6... maybe with upcoming X7.

X6 starts at $62k, it is one step below flagship.

I would guess if they do X6 competition, it would be something like RQ... but I dont see that vehicle coming anytime soon.
S
A hypothetical RQ, RX, and RX-L all in a similar segment sounds very crowded. Then again you can never have enough crossovers in your lineup these days.

What are the X4 and X6's main markets? They are not too hot in U.S. or China last time I checked. If it's Europe then I would say don't bother since Lexus will always be fighting an uphill battle there.
Gecko
IMO, Lexus seems to have smartly avoided the "four door coupe vs sedan" trend by simply giving their sedans sexier curves and more svelte, coupe-like rooflines, e.g. new LS and ES. This makes the most sense, IMO, but I'd still love for GS to return as an ultra dramatic four door coupe that pushes the boundary even more. I think it would be cool for Gazoo/F to have their own global car, similar to how AMG has the GT. GS could be perfect for that, but I know I'm dreaming.

Anyway, it seems to me like the CUV coupe craze is still not a market worth chasing for Lexus. I don't know what volume the X4, X6, GLC Coupe and GLE Coupe sell in, but I don't think it's very much (keep in mind we're talking about conservative Lexus here). Dedicated high performance CUVs like the Levante, Cayenne and Range Rover Sport make a lot more sense to more people and have a proven place in the market vs these CUV coupes. I see LF-1 as competitor to those three - Levante, Cayenne, Range Rover Sport and the forthcoming Q8 - because Mercedes nor BMW really offer anything comparable. GLS and G class are Mercedes two SUV flagships, X7 will be BMW's and Audi will have the Q8. X6, GLE Coupe, Q6 e-tron and others will be a solid step below the LF-1. Cayenne is rather small inside, Range Rover Sport isn't necessarily RR's flagship and the Levante is Maserati's first and only SUV. LF-1 positioned as the king crossover in Lexus' CUV line, built on GA-L, with two roomy and luxurious rows and a focus on performance is a unique proposition. I think the vehicle it most directly competes with will be the Levante and TBD on the Q8. Lexus has, once again, created their own formula with the LF-1.

IMO, now that we have UX, NX, RX, RX-L and upcoming LF-1, Lexus' unibody SUV portfolio is pretty well built out. Small to large, basic to ultra luxury and performance, the bases are well covered. We'll have to see how the SUV craze progresses, but I think it would actually be smarter for Lexus to invest in a next generation BOF GX instead of chasing another unibody crossover with less cargo space than it's "non coupe" counterpart. GX has been the surprise success that nobody expected and most of what we know shows that people actually want boxy looking SUVs/CUVs that just drive better on road. Consumers like the image of tough and rugged. The only competitors who offer anything like this are the Mercedes G Class and Range Rover. UX, NX, RX, RX-L and LF-1 are all so svelte... a boxy, tough looking GX would sell exponentially better than any type of NX or RX coupe. I suspect Lexus knows this and the GX has been saved by TNGA-F and the SUV craze.
L
On the other hand, the Toyota CH-R sells like hot cakes. It is a huge hit. I see more and more here (France, Germany, etc...). And this despite the low power and lack of AWD hybrid. In Europe Lexus is not being bought for practicality reasons. But then again, NX and RX are already very coupe-ish, way more than anything in their class. And BMW's X2 is not really a coupe SUV, but more a 'rugged' looking 1 Series, or a lower X1 without third side window.
S
ssun30
A hypothetical RQ, RX, and RX-L all in a similar segment sounds very crowded. Then again you can never have enough crossovers in your lineup these days.

What are the X4 and X6's main markets? They are not too hot in U.S. or China last time I checked. If it's Europe then I would say don't bother since Lexus will always be fighting an uphill battle there.
Important thing it is that it is profitable, and thus it is not hard to build a business case even for lower volumes...

X4 and X6 are big in Europe.

I hoped LF-1 will be more like RQ in pricing, with LQ and base price north of 80k, I think they are looking at prestige, not just sales numbers.
S
Gecko
IMO, Lexus seems to have smartly avoided the "four door coupe vs sedan" trend by simply giving their sedans sexier curves and more svelte, coupe-like rooflines, e.g. new LS and ES. This makes the most sense, IMO, but I'd still love for GS to return as an ultra dramatic four door coupe that pushes the boundary even more. I think it would be cool for Gazoo/F to have their own global car, similar to how AMG has the GT. GS could be perfect for that, but I know I'm dreaming.

Anyway, it seems to me like the CUV coupe craze is still not a market worth chasing for Lexus. I don't know what volume the X4, X6, GLC Coupe and GLE Coupe sell in, but I don't think it's very much (keep in mind we're talking about conservative Lexus here). Dedicated high performance CUVs like the Levante, Cayenne and Range Rover Sport make a lot more sense to more people and have a proven place in the market vs these CUV coupes. I see LF-1 as competitor to those three - Levante, Cayenne, Range Rover Sport and the forthcoming Q8 - because Mercedes nor BMW really offer anything comparable. GLS and G class are Mercedes two SUV flagships, X7 will be BMW's and Audi will have the Q8. X6, GLE Coupe, Q6 e-tron and others will be a solid step below the LF-1. Cayenne is rather small inside, Range Rover Sport isn't necessarily RR's flagship and the Levante is Maserati's first and only SUV. LF-1 positioned as the king crossover in Lexus' CUV line, built on GA-L, with two roomy and luxurious rows and a focus on performance is a unique proposition. I think the vehicle it most directly competes with will be the Levante and TBD on the Q8. Lexus has, once again, created their own formula with the LF-1.
What if GX moves to unibody and becomes something like high performance SUV on rwd GA-L? With some interesting design, they can make that coupe look and still have decent space, it is SUV afterall, which usually means higher seating position that leaves space.

GX never made a mark in areas where LX did great, where BoF matters. It only works in the US, where I dont think many care it is BoF or not.
R
Hmm I do not know where Lexus are going with all their rather odd initials as identity names. Become confusing I do like BMW in that they have a one to eight series of models so at least you know where you are both in terms of size and pricing.
L
@spwolf

Leaving aside the FWD proportions of the RX, the RX already looks like a coupe version of the 'original' RX L.


Rob Grieveson
Hmm I do not know where Lexus are going with all their rather odd initials as identity names. Become confusing I do like BMW in that they have a one to eight series of models so at least you know where you are both in terms of size and pricing.
Only getting worse. BMW under five will continue being called x Series, but from seven and above they will be called THE x. Not to mention how the 5 GT (based on 7 Series) became a 6 GT (also based on 7 Series) and now the 6 Series (based on 5 Series) becomes the 8 Series (based on 5 Series) but smaller than the 6 Series.
Gecko
spwolf
What if GX moves to unibody and becomes something like high performance SUV on rwd GA-L? With some interesting design, they can make that coupe look and still have decent space, it is SUV afterall, which usually means higher seating position that leaves space.

GX never made a mark in areas where LX did great, where BoF matters. It only works in the US, where I dont think many care it is BoF or not.
With LF-1, there is no need for a high performance unibody GX. LF-1 "F" or LQ F will be that vehicle.

They could easily move GX to GA-L and just make it look tough/rugged. Toyota already has the platform and the mechanicals with TNGA-F also, so either way, they could make the idea work. The best chance to stand out and be unique is going to be something more rugged and tough looking though... not high performance.
Gecko
Random thought: I assume LF-1 will be the vehicle to debut the newer generation hybrid drivetrain, be it 3.0L turbo V6 or 2.5L TT I4 + hybrid. Hopefully it will go to the LS shortly afterwards.
krew
Gecko
Random thought: I assume LF-1 will be the vehicle to debut the newer generation hybrid drivetrain, be it 3.0L turbo V6 or 2.5L TT I4 + hybrid. Hopefully it will go to the LS shortly afterwards.
With the big deal Lexus made about the LF-1 being capable of 'limitless' powertrain possibilities, there better be a new engine in the production model. I still think we see a full-electric version.

K