Lexus LF-1 Limitless Concept Megathread [LF Coming in 2023?]

[krew]

Lexus has, once again, created their own formula with the LF-1.

IMO, now that we have UX, NX, RX, RX-L and upcoming LF-1, Lexus' unibody SUV portfolio is pretty well built out.

Well done not using the LQ nameplate in your excellent post.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Yeah, I expect LF-1 will introduce new powertrains (including BEV) either shortly before or alongside an LS refresh.

 

[Levi]

The best chance to stand out and be unique is going to be something more rugged and tough looking though... not high performance.

CUVs/SUVs are already a quite stupid thing, but there is nothing more stupid than a high-powered gasoline race tired stiff suspended SUV... unless the sole purpose is higher survivability in case of crash, in which case high-performance SUV drivers should be the first to adopt driverless autonomous cars.

 

[Trexus]

Umm... I don't think they'll be calling the small one IQ. That badge is too closely associated with Toyota's space efficiency-pioneering "Smarter, Minier" city car. Change the nomenclature to RQ for the mid-level and NQ for the entry-level and you're good to go.

I thought about that too, since Scion had the IQ maybe Lexus can use EQ instead. We'll have to wait and see how Lexus plays out this (LF-1) or these new potential Lexus models.

LQ/LQ F
GQ\RQ
EQ or NQ

Funny that there will be Lexus models with the letter Q. Did Johan De Nysschen come work for Lexus?

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

I thought about that too, since Scion had the IQ maybe Lexus can use EQ instead.

But then you get into conflict with Mercedes-Benz, which has registered the EQ trademark for its upcoming battery-electric vehicles...

Funny that there will be Lexus models with the letter Q. Did Johan De Nysschen come work for Lexus?

LOL!

 

[spwolf]

With LF-1, there is no need for a high performance unibody GX. LF-1 "F" or LQ F will be that vehicle.

They could easily move GX to GA-L and just make it look tough/rugged. Toyota already has the platform and the mechanicals with TNGA-F also, so either way, they could make the idea work. The best chance to stand out and be unique is going to be something more rugged and tough looking though... not high performance.

But again LQ is flagship vehicle, it will sell at $80-$90k at minimum. So it cant compare to X5/X6/GLE price wise, it is another category.

I dont see the point of making GX look rugged but doing it on unibody. Their markets that buy Land Cruiser and LX do not need that vehicle, as we can see now.

So what they need it something higher performance than RX.

 

[Levi]

But again LQ is flagship vehicle, it will sell at $80-$90k at minimum. So it cant compare to X5/X6/GLE price wise, it is another category.

I dont see the point of making GX look rugged but doing it on unibody. Their markets that buy Land Cruiser and LX do not need that vehicle, as we can see now.

So what they need it something higher performance than RX.

Once the LQ is out, expect to see reviews criticizing it for being a CUVs, or a lifted wagon, not as good looking and practical as the Germans, and for not looking like a German 'rugged' SUV.

 

[spwolf]

Once the LQ is out, expect to see reviews criticizing it for being a CUVs, or a lifted wagon, not as good looking and practical as the Germans, and for not looking like a German 'rugged' SUV.

thats expected, except that nobody thinks germans have rugged SUV

p.s. when it comes to criticsm of Euro (mostly german owned now) press, I just read review in UK about V60 and they said interior is not up to par with german competition - where 3 has really cheap interior... lol. So some criticism will never be averted, but buyers dont get cars based on car mags anymore, or maybe ever, or else RX would have never sold so well in the first place.

 

[Gecko]

But again LQ is flagship vehicle, it will sell at $80-$90k at minimum. So it cant compare to X5/X6/GLE price wise, it is another category.

I dont see the point of making GX look rugged but doing it on unibody. Their markets that buy Land Cruiser and LX do not need that vehicle, as we can see now.

So what they need it something higher performance than RX.

We agree - I noted that X5, X6, GLE, etc are not going to be competitors to LF-1. If anything, there are rumors that BMW will do X8 to compete with Q8 and yes, LF-1. Mercedes? Would they do GLS Coupe? No idea...

Lexus creating a unibody SUV that looks rugged would probably result in a vehicle that is scoffed at by enthusiasts but impossible for dealers to keep in stock. Look at the Jeep Grand Cherokee, for example. Consumers like SUVs and always have - what they didn't like is how they drive and how much gas they use. Going unibody (in addition to overall powertrain advancements,) closes the gap with sedans much more closely on MPG and provides a better driving experience as well. Plus, with modern active AWD systems with torque vectoring, slip control, multi-terrain select, lockers and air suspension that can change ride height, unibody SUVs have become very capable indeed. The only unknown is how unibody construction will age with repeated, hard off road use.

^with that of that considered, now that we know TNGA-F exists, I think it is plausible to expect that if GX lives on, it will stay BOF. I think Prado, LC 150, 4Runner and GX will all become clones of the same model with less differentiation than they have now except for GX, which will have unique engines, sheetmetal and interior.

If LF-1/LQ is priced from say ~$80k+, that is great because it will fill a current hole in Lexus' lineup. We could have something like:

UX: $33 - 39k
NX: $37 - 47k
RX: $45 - 66k (incl RXL)
GX: $57 - 73k
LF-1: $80 - 93k
LX: $90 - 105k

 

[spwolf]

@Gecko if they keep GX as it is, then still I would not mind some GQ model thats more performance based, which basically means RWD platform based... I bet it will sell decently enough.

As to LQ, I bet it will go over $100k, expect it to be $5k more than comparable LS.

 

[mordecai]

@Gecko if they keep GX as it is, then still I would not mind some GQ model thats more performance based, which basically means RWD platform based... I bet it will sell decently enough.

As to LQ, I bet it will go over $100k, expect it to be $5k more than comparable LS.

I also think it will be more expensive than the LS and more along the lines of the LC and above. I believe Lexus is looking at this as THE flagship (outside of the halo-level cars like the LFA) with how important of a market crossovers are today.

 

[spwolf]

Best car has rendering, LQ-F coming in 2021

4.0l v8 bi-turbo 650hp

https://bestcarweb.jp/news/newcar/2757

 

[maiaramdan]

So someone correct me if I am wrong

1) I don't believe that there will be RQ, NQ or UQ

2) I do believe we may see also a GQ

In short

I do believe that the Q is for the 2 BOF vehicles that Lexus don't want then to go Uni-Body aka LX & GX so they will have them in both scenarios normal BOF as X and newly fashioned Uni-Body as Q

 

[Levi]

Really interested to know how close to production the concept is. It looks more production ready than the LC concept. Turbo V8 does fit this car, with it mid-engine layout, I also wonder it the production car will also be that way. If yes it might be the first mid-engine CUV. Except (Jeep Wrangler and Land Cruiser 70, SUVs are not mid-front). I then wonder how will Lexus solve the AWD issue with such a mid-front layout. I expect the Ferrari CUV to have a similar looking car, a lifted FF/GTC4 with two more door and mid-front engine. They also have to solve the AWD issue. Maybe the new BMW M850xi will show a breakthrough (though BMW usually disappoint tech-wise). With the long wheelbase, I expect the LQ also to have AWS as every car in this category.

Has anyone noticed the frameless doors? Do you think the production car will get them too? As of now, without counting old Subarus, there are only two CUVs that have frameless doors: The Maserati Levante and the pair Lamborghini Urus/Audi Q8. (Urus is basically a rebadged/rebodied Q8). One negative of frameless doors is the increased noise. I do not know if this issue has been completely mitigated compared to framed doors. But frameless doors are cool when windows are down and doors open.

I expect the LQs main rival will be the Q8 and Urus, which will be powered by V8 turbos and a probably plug-in version. Given the flop of the second generation R8, which is at least on the magnitude of the new NSX (my favorite supercar right now), as there will be no third generation, the Q8 will quite likely take the flagship role at Audi (with 2.0 TFSI engine to increase sales? lol), until its BEV cars arrive (if Tesla does not go bankrupt). Audi really lost it with the arrogant refusal to use the new RWD based platform. The A6 and A8 only out will have to live a whole generation on the old FWD based platform. Not to forget that the SUV platform is also still FWD based, in other words, nose heavy.

I also expect reviews mentioning how much more trunk volume the Q8 has, and saying how it is "more off-road capable with all the off-road tech it has, even though on track the LQ handles better and is faster, but who drives such CUVs on track?". I should probably start a satire car review website...

 

[Gecko]

That font end is still a little much for me, but DAMN does it look good in black.

 

[spwolf]

They also have to solve the AWD issue. Maybe the new BMW M850xi will show a breakthrough (though BMW usually disappoint tech-wise). With the long wheelbase, I expect the LQ also to have AWS as every car in this category.

-----

I expect the LQs main rival will be the Q8 and Urus, which will be powered by V8 turbos and a probably plug-in version. Given the flop of the second generation R8, which is at least on the magnitude of the new NSX (my favorite supercar right now), as there will be no third generation, the Q8 will quite likely take the flagship role at Audi (with 2.0 TFSI engine to increase sales? lol), until its BEV cars arrive (if Tesla does not go bankrupt). Audi really lost it with the arrogant refusal to use the new RWD based platform. The A6 and A8 only out will have to live a whole generation on the old FWD based platform. Not to forget that the SUV platform is also still FWD based, in other words, nose heavy.

Article indeed does mention Urus and Cayenne as competitors .

As to the AWD, both LS500 and LS500h already have full time awd system.

 

[krew]

krew

Rendered: The Production Lexus LF-1 Limitless Crossover

Absolutely stunning.

View the original article post

 

[spwolf]

p.s. We are always wondering how many SUVs are enough... but look at it this way - Today, SUV/CUV make 70% of the sales. Leaving only 30% for passenger vehicles.

So yeah, just like before when we had coupes, convertibles, wagons, even models like 5 GT from BMW, we are going to get many similar SUV/CUV models that have different aspiration.

When it comes to regular cars, 15 years ago here in Europe we have had 3 (!!!) Toyota MPVs... Yaris Verso, Corolla Verso and Avensis Verso.
Now MPVs are dead, so there is only 1 and it has not been updated in a while.

So all of that, as well as Avensis and Avensis Wagon will spill into variation of SUV/CUV category. So between $25k and $45k we will have 7-8 Toyota CUVs to pick from simply because this will become 70% of their sales.

Same will end up being true for Lexus. Now Lexus has much higher margins so they can allow themselves to do more sedans than Toyota, simply because break-even point is much less.. but there is no doubt that in few years, we will have CUVs for everything.

 

[ssun30]

So, it's the same raised hatchback style just like the UX. Now it makes a some sort of sense to keep two parallel lines. In ten years the 'Q-cars' are going to replace the sedans.

 

[maiaramdan]

@ssun30

Yes and No
Yes it may evolve to other models
No the Sedan will never die, it may shrink but will never be completely die